New US Ban on Sale of Elephant Ivory

I just got my monthly e-mail from Joe Barringer at Cue Components over in Daytona Beach. He has been a big seller of legal pre-ban ivory to custom cue builders for years and he says that he will be liquidating all of his current stock and getting out of the business ASAP.
 
This is Presidents Day so federal employees do not work today. I will try to have some info tomorrow.

It is a fact that the USF&W Service monitors this forum, especially the "materials for sale" SF. They have been for a few years now. They also watch the taxidermy forums. They are fully aware of how much ivory is used in handmade knife making. Nothing new there.

It is also true that whenever requests are made of the USF&W Service any information that they can gather about the individual making the request is logged and may be used in future investigations. That's not paranoia, it's just a fact of life. They are used to people that have something they should not have, asking them questions so that they will know how to answer questions they are asked if they are caught with whatever it is they are not supposed to have.

It's no coincidence that whenever I ask the USF&W Service a question about a particular restricted item I start to get offers of that material out of the blue from some guy in Hoboken. I have spoken to agents about this often. They view most calls to them with the question in their minds "What's this guy trying to get away with?" Paranoia on there parts? Training? Probably, most people that call them are trying to get away with something. It makes it very hard to get good information from them when you are trying to do the right thing.

There are some avenues we can pursue to push back on this thing, we don't have to sit and let it happen. I will try to have some information soon. To talk more about it now would just be conjecture.
 
Well i guess in this case the old adage about paranoia is true. If you truly believe thet tried to sting you because of honest questions, please complain to your congressman or senator. That type of entrapment should be reported or even publicized.

A guy i buy cigars from was targeted by atf for cubans, but he was clean. They solicited by mail and phone, he said no and then they sent some agents to his store to see if he'd fold if he had customers. He called them on it asking if they were atf, they finally admitted but never bothered him again.
 
I have a little information, about the ban.

The USF&W enforcement guys are aware of no changes to any laws yet. I was told that we can proceed as usual for now and the foreseeable future.

After the new regulations are written they will need to pass constitutional scrutiny. This could take months or years. I was told, that the second law enforcement agencies are given new orders concerning the management of elephant ivory, he will let me know and I will let you know. I hope there will be no surprises.

I have talked to a lawyer, my go-to guy, about the constitutionality of these changes, specifically the innocent until proven guilty thing, he is fairly certain we have a good case in that regard, he is doing some checking. He is also checking on the restrictions of interstate commerce among other things. I will keep you posted.
 
Mark, Thank you so much for being a voice of reason and taking the time to keep the rest of us informed.
Gary
 
You guys are certainly welcomed, I did little enough. We may have to really do something later. The good news is, it looks like there will be something we can do.
 
All things of (real tangible) value, you must not be allowed to own, you must only consume. It seems to be the trend with everything. If it can't be consumed, it is banned or regulated out of commerce.

I hate that they are expanding their efforts, despite the fact EVERYONE knows Americans are not killing African and Asian Elephants.
 
This is a losing battle. HRH Prince William came out the other day and said that he thinks that all 1200 or so of the ivory art objects in the royal collection should be DESTROYED as an example no matter how valuable or historically significant they may be. Apparently his goofy looking dad agrees. Those us who argue in support of ANY legal use of elephant ivory are going to find that we have very few if any friends/supporters in the long run.
 
jdm61 said:
HRH Prince William came out the other day and said that he thinks that all 1200 or so of the ivory art objects in the royal collection should be DESTROYED as an example no matter how valuable or historically significant they may be.
Click to expand...

As long as he feels the same way about the Monarchy and the "royal" family, the sacrifice of 1200 ivory art objects may be worth it.
 
I would take that as an insult if I were a Brit and demand they sell those pieces to the flourishing Chinese and Robin Hood the money to the people. To me they're sending the message they can afford to destroy 1200 prized and potentially priceless pieces just because they can.
 
ptgdvc said:
As long as he feels the same way about the Monarchy and the "royal" family, the sacrifice of 1200 ivory art objects may be worth it.
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How about the Crown Jewels, many of which were obtained during the era of slavery and colonialism. I would love to know what the folks who dug up stuff like the Cullinan diamond or the Star of India sapphire were paid and whether India or South Africa might want some of that stuff back. How about all of those fancy old buildings? What kind of labor built them? How much of the money that went into building a bradn spanking new palace like Buckingham came from profits made in ventures out there in the empire, including the ivory trade? Question like that became even more interesting if you look at stuff built say in Brussels in the mid to late 1900's where the king personally owned what is today the Republic of Congo (former Zaire) and he made enough on ivory, rubber and genocide to build himself a little vacation cottage in the south of France that recently went on the market for over $500 MILLION among other things. Perhaps we should demand that most of the north side of Brussels be torn down because it was arguably built with that blood money.!!!!
 
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sierra11b said:
I would take that as an insult if I were a Brit and demand they sell those pieces to the flourishing Chinese and Robin Hood the money to the people. To me they're sending the message they can afford to destroy 1200 prized and potentially priceless pieces just because they can.
Click to expand...

The old and honorable mens' barber shop and purveyor of fine smelly liquids, ointments, soaps, grooming accouterments and what have you George F. Trumper was fined 10,000 pounds a few years back for restoring a Victorian era ivory handled shaving set. It is still nominally legal to own antique (100+ year old) ivory objects , but if they are altered, they become illegal. Apparently Trumper didn't know that putting new bristles in a shaving brush, what most normal folks would consider a "repair" constituted alteration under the law.
 
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