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Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by exmaxima, May 2, 2015.
And this 0562 is just bangin!!!
You guys need to go outside and enjoy the weather instead of discussing you flippin flipping!
Sand box time!
Blues you crazy sun of a gun, what knife is it that takes two hands. I missed that. You guys are talking about too many damn models.
All of them
Well-made, well-engineered flippers do not require heavy detents to flip reliably and smoothly without wrist motion.
Heavy detents in themselves are not that bad a thing. But if a detent is so heavy it requires undue "loading" of the detent to flip, or if it causes actual discomfort or pain when flipping with one finger, that is a bad thing and no knife should leave the factory that way.
A lot of lockbar pressure combined with a heavy set detent can also cause deformation of the detent ball over time if the detent ball is stainless steel. This deformation has happened to two of my knives with very strong detents, negatively affecting smoothness and ease of operation.
Yes, it's an imprecise system and there will be variation across knives. But that's what quality control is for.
If an adult is unable to open a knife as it was designed to be opened, and has to resort to two-handed opening of the knife, then that detent's too strong.
Brand new knives should not need to be 1. disassembled and modified to the point of voiding warranty to become an acceptable flipper or 2. sent in, wasting the consumer's time and money, for an issue that should have been caught by QC. This goes for any brand or manufacturer of knives.
Besides that, my confidence in ZT warranty work has taken a hit after reading many reports of knives coming back without work done, and multiple trips (thus extra time and money wasted) needed to fix an issue that should have been caught by QC in the first place.
This is not to say that all ZTs have issues. The majority of the time, when you purchase a ZT, you WILL get a knife without any major issues.
However, it seems that as of late, complaints with ZT's quality are more frequent, & increasing, than with other brands. Remember also that forums are a small subsection of knife owners, so forum members who post about issues with particular knives only represent a fraction of the people who own those knives.
And yet when Rick Hinderer tries to tell people that, he gets excoriated....
Look, flippers are dependent on several factors. Detent is just one. Different strokes for different folks.
On the other hand, if a detent is weak enough that the blade isn't being properly retained in the handle, or flipping the knife is impossible without substantial wrist motion, that's a cause for concern as well.
I hope some of you guys get to meet RJ Martin one day and ask him why it's nigh impossible to push button his flippers....
Why do you always mention RJ Martin? Sure, his knives are probably great, but so are many other flippers. Go ask André Thorburn why his knives flip so well without a strong detent...
3 pages strong and its turning into another classic shit on ZT thread....great job guys. Still cant think up new arguments I see.
My advise to the OP, if you like the design then send it in. My 0562 is one of the best flipping knives in my collection. When you make knives in the volume KAI does some will inevitably get past QC (though i suspect most just need to change up thier techniques). If you don't like the design then return it for something else, plain and simple.
Well again... Different strokes for different folks. I've owned knives with almost no detent that all flipped like a rocket (Michael Vagnino Velox for example).
The thing is, a lot of people feel that if someone can't just pick up a knife and flip open completely every time it without knowing anything about the knife out or have a good technique, then it's not a well designed flipper.
Thorburns CAN flip like a rocket, so could my velox but the first time someone picks it up, they'll probably pull back on the flipper and it'll come out halfway. Then they'll try it a few more times until they get it.
Some people have no issues with that. Some people think that's not the right way. Clearly Zt is on the latter side, which is funny because when they made their first flippers with adequate to weak detents, people bitched and moaned then too.
Guys need to start taking their knives apart more and be proficient in handling small do it yourself mods like detent adjustment. Now I'm not saying for any noob to start messing with their knives and in turn ruin it and the warranty. But if you've been around knives long enough (in this case frame locks) and understand how they work than a detent/ lock bar adjustment should be an easy fix.
I agree 100%, Zt is way overhyped and their "limited editions" and "factory customs" tick me off to no end. Theyre no higher quality than their regular runs and sell for absurd prices on the secondary market. When a Zt costs more than a Sebenza, well that is just too funny. I had a few ZTs, keyword HAD. Their QC has tanked and i dont care for flippers much so i moved on rather quickly from ZT. If im spending 200+ on a knife, i spend 400 and buy a CRK. Id send it in for warranty, then sell it for a profit to the rabid ZT buyers Lol.
New it was coming " when did ZT cost more than a sebenza " the only ZT that cost more than a sebenza are there limited . And I think for the money the ZT limited are worth more than a regular sebenza .
Knife ownership is voluntary. There really isn't a good reason to let yourself be "bothered to no end" by ZT. Put your money where it brings joy to you.
Dude, sell it for $1250, its a ZT factory production custom limited edition
I have two ZTs - a 350 and a 550. Booth have had minor issues. I don't think the knives live up to the name, but they are not that bad.
My 550 had a strong detent such that I couldn't open it out of the box. It took a long break in and dry Teflon lube to get it acceptable. There are three problems with this knife IMO: First it shouldn't have had such a strong detent that I couldn't open it out of the box - this is QC. Second, the carry clip lands on the lockbar - this is a design problem. This means you have to hold the knife such that your fingers are not on the clip, otherwise it puts pressure on the lockbar and therefore detent and you cannot open the blade. You don't see Hinderer knives clips landing on the lockbar - they land on the frame. Thirdly the thumstuds are in a position that when holding the knife, you cannot get good leverage to flip it open (or there is a very limited ranges) . This is also design IMO.
Having said all that, and after replacing the fugly scale and breaking it in, I really like it a lot.
The minor issues with my 350: The blade is slightly off center. It is 1/2 mm or less, but the tolerances are so tight it looks like more. I attribute the centering problems on this model to design. Though it may that the blade itself wasn't machined right - QC. Also, this was a m390 blade and the bevels were uneven and not at consistent angles.
One other thing I want to comment on is the Ti/steel lock interface on the Ti frame locks. It seems to me that the steel insert introduced in later models may be a kludge to fix the fact that ZT couldn't make a TI steel interface that doesn't slip. I would like to see how this plays out in the long term, if it works better, well I am happy, but it does take away from the aesthetics to have that screw on the lock part of the frame.
So when I purchase my next folder, I will certainly look around more, especially at customs or higher end production. ZT will certainly be on my list but I will have to consider the design, QC, and whether or not I will need to part with the knife for a month to get QC issues fixed. My time is worth something and I have to weigh that in.
I also am not happy with their LE releases. Those blades should be their normal production and at their normal production prices.
Even in that picture you had to push the lock bar over. Ive worked three of those babies. All low and high serial #s. The factory bend will max out at 60% unless you push it the rest of the way in. Sooo.
Yes, sadly you can easily force the lock bar over that way easily but they just do not ship that way. If for some reason spec was off that much, instead the blade would just flop back and forth with the lock bar looking to be in the middle of the blade tang.
To note, my favorite ZT was the 0200 and the 0561.
My favorite achievement with the TI lock bar is the ceramic call that I have been trying on my 25. Huge difference. And its a ball. Geometry is now based only on the blade. Which is a good thing.
I used to love Zt, that changed. And i said ticks me off to no end, the main reason being they put out 200-500 knives then they toss them to dealers all on the same day at the same time to cause a feeding frnzy, knowing damn well theyre pissing off many of their customers and screwing them by forcing them to get the knife on the secondary market by the fleabay and exchage price gougers. Luckily i have little interest in their designs and dont like flippers. Maybe they should concentrate on some quality CONTROL and lower the volume if thats what it would take to put out a quality knife. Sorry... it is what it is.
Dude, I've handled RJ Martins. Several Q-36's and a devastator. I truly believe ZT did as well with the 0600 (probably better) than RJ did with the specific Q-36's I held. They were ridiculously hard to flip open. I'm not a weak man, I actually shoot quite a bit so I know my trigger finger should easily be up to the task of flipping a knife open. RJ's knives were hard. I wouldn't have bought one for any price over 300 bucks. A knife I can't open is pretty useless. Having said that, seeing some honest discussion about some of these companies is good. Hopefully this is just a passing phase for ZT and they get their stuff together. There are a lot of collections depending on ZT maintaining their reputation. The emperor can only walk around naked for so long before people start calling them on it.
same issue with x2 ZT 0550's that I bought had this problem,first one I returned the 2nd I bought from someone here and it has the same problem-will be sending this one to ZT for repair-I have quite a few ZT's and don't have problems with any of the other knives, but something is definitely happening to their QC