Nice features on new A G Russell Ti Framelock..

If you still have the knife with you then you can still return the knife now to AGR either for repair or refund.

To quote (part of) AGR's warranty:

"We guarantee total satisfaction. You, the customer, decide what satisfaction is. You decide how long (emphasis added by me) you are entitled to be satisfied.

If you buy a knife and don't use it for ten years and when you do use it you want to return it, do so. If you think that a knife should provide good service for ten years and it only does so for seven years, tell us so. You are in charge of our guarantee."

Try it.
 
Being from the Kershaw blood lines "should" make it more desirable. The chances that I will own one went way up. Hopefully the price will lower to about 50 to 60% of MSRP like all of the Kershaws do. I don't think I have ever paid more than 75% of MSRP for a Kershaw. I paid $55 shipped for the Shallot when it 1st came out. You can buy them now for less then $40 shipped. Bought a S110V Shallot a year later for about the same price. Hopefully once the "new" wears off the price will go down.
 
presz said:
Being from the Kershaw blood lines "should" make it more desirable. The chances that I will own one went way up. Hopefully the price will lower to about 50 to 60% of MSRP like all of the Kershaws do. I don't think I have ever paid more than 75% of MSRP for a Kershaw. I paid $55 shipped for the Shallot when it 1st came out. You can buy them now for less then $40 shipped. Bought a S110V Shallot a year later for about the same price. Hopefully once the "new" wears off the price will go down.
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Nope. The price it's listed for is the price you will pay if you buy it from A.G. Russell.

He's the only seller of this knife.
 
It's kinda sad when respected makers make obvious Sebenza copies.
 
goldie said:
(originally posted by elkins45)( I think I understand what he meant, and I don't think it was a slam against Kershaw.

KAI is a knife production company with a whole manufacturing apparatus just for the purpose of making knives. You have the economies of scale that comes from being a large knife maker and your retail prices reflect that. My interpretation of his comment is that the price being asked is up near the custom range for a knife that isn't hand made. Essentially it's the pro/con Sebenza argument [played out over a different knife.

I would have said it differently if it were my opinion. "Kershaw can make a great knife like the ZT 0300 and sell it for a little over $200 street. How did the extra Ti slab and the ZDP blade add $175 to the price?") Thats what i meant. i figured its being made by a long standing & well set up company. i dont know of any kershaws that sell for 375.00..no negativity was intended,i love kershaw & have many.ill be one of the 1st to have a volt when it comes out....
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So I'll assume your explanation is the same as elkins45 wrote, dunno for sure?

OEM projects like these will always bring a premium price tag, and I'm unsure why this needs explaining. This isn't a Kershaw or ZT knife, it's an OEM project. These projects are not necessarily efficient for us as a an organization, as they disrupt the flow of everyday business. Projects like these bring on premium floor space from the factory, and the upscale materials used are difficult to work with along with being very expensive. ZDP is a bear, and a Ti framelock, is a challenge.
We did this particular knife due to the relationship we have with A.G. A.G. is very strict when it comes to the details and tolerances when putting his name on a knife, and we're focusing on meeting his demands.

There's no two step distribution, or deep discounting dealers involved here. :confused: You can't even compare this piece to a Kai USA branded knife, and for not one person to post on this is kind of odd to me. As others have said, we all want the deal of the day, but I thought I would throw some reasoning why into the discussion.
What there is here, is an investment from all parties involved to create one sweet knife that brings forth materials everyone felt would be desired. Oh, I should mentioned I checked the hardness on the ZDP last week, and it came in at 65.5 Rc.

As to the pattern itself, I'll leave that for all you to put under the microscope. I personally don't understand where there's an issue, at all. If there was an issue in our eyes, we would have passed on producing the piece.

Harry...two words for you, shiny footprints. The true faithful will be more impressed.
 
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I've been following this thread & aside from it apparently having started in the CRK Forum, I don't know what the problem is.

"Thomas W." said far better than any of us/me could, especially since he's on the "inside" of this (Being or having intimate knowledge of what's involved on this particular project).

There has been a history of certain manufacturers making knives to the specifications of another company/entity. Typically, that item will have a premium price & "usually" won't be discounted or distributed through "normal" channels. This particular knife is a design by A.G. Russell. AG stated on his site whose influence he took from on the design & making of this knife. As to what arrangement he made with the mentioned makers/companies, who knows, but he did state their names.

I don't see this as a copy or a "rip off", but a design that incorporated things AG liked from the knives he mentioned & added or incorporated other stuff that he liked/wanted. It's kind of hard for a Ti frame-lock knife with Ti scales to NOT look something like a Sebenza. The knife doesn't have the Seb's pivot & the CRK does nor have they ever used ZDP-189 steel (As far as I know, anyways).

As to "It's just a Kershaw/ZT", so what? It's not a Kershaw/ZT in the sense that it is NOT like any of their previous knives. What little I do know about the knife making world (Or any manufactoring plant, for that matter), the up front costs of tooling costs...well, it costs $. Since this is a special knife made & sold through ONE company (& not through anything else that Kershaw does to make $), it's going to be more expensive. For what it has & the tolerances that I'm assuming it is made at, it has to be more expensive than just "slapping on a ZDP blade" onto it.

Yes, Kershaw makes & has made some Ti frame-locks & even a couple with ZDP, but they've never made one that looks like that, nor has that blade shape. So, there's set-up costs right there. & since Kershaw's not selling these, they have to charge what they need to to recoupe costs. A.G. Russell paid whatever he paid to get this knife made & produced.

I'm surprised at all the comments about "street pricing". Special one-off runs made for ONE company to sell, don't usually wholesale out, so they won't be deeply discounted unless the knife doesn't sell well enough & A.G. Russell decides to discount it.

I don't know how many he had made, but I personally think he'll sell all that he has. Whether or not it's of the same quality/tolerances that a CRK, Hinderer, or William Henry is at, is anyone's guess. We'll just have to wait for a review from someone &/or buy it.
 
Tony8179 said:
Another guy who needs to go in for an eye exam. :rolleyes:
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It's unbelievable really. I have trouble imagining that some of the most vocal anti-Acies types really believe what they are saying and are just acting out of blind loyalty or, in at least one case, an irrational dislike of A.G. Russell knives.
 
I think some people just see any ti handle with a RIL and instantly think SEBENZA... and if it is not a sebenza.. then its a CLONE! I think most would agree the sebbie is basically the benchmark for a folding knife, why do people see it as bad when someone tries to improve upon it? even if it turns out to be a horrible knife, as consumers it is in our best interest for companies to continue to improve products. If the sebbie had been released 2 months ago, calling foul would make more sense... but it has been out for over a decade! I welcome a more diverse market for these blades... that is until the next big innovation comes out...
 
People, it's a knife for Pete's sake! If you don't like it, don't buy it, but don't try to promote CRK by climbing on the backs of other knife manufacturers. A CRK speaks quite nicely for itself, as does the reputation of A.G.Russell and Kershaw.
 
I like it. I like Sebenzas, too. I think it would be better priced at 300 bucks, but AG has been in the business longer than a lot of us have been alive. If he thinks they'll sell at 400 bones, they will.

Is it a Sebenza copy? You bet it is. That, to me, isn't the question. The question should be is copy a naughty word? If so, then shame on you for not owning the first TV, car, or knife ever invented.

All knives are 'copies' in one way or another.
 
There is a lot I like about this knife, the blade shape and Jimping, not just the fact that it can be tip down but the design of the clip, and the lock bar "hinderer". I also tend to get a much finer edge out of ZDP-189 (at least in Spyderco) than S30V. I've never really been drawn to the CRKs or Bradley Alias but this one is probably going to be an exception.
 
Thomas W said:
Harry...two words for you, shiny footprints. The true faithful will be more impressed.
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Some people take there shoes off at the door, others just drag the
mud in, Thomas.

I'd like to ask Harry a question, as well as some others.
Which one are you?

Yall have a wonderful day. :)
 
(thomas w) I guess i didnt realize how hard it is to work with these materials. i just take it for granted that machines do all the work. i made a pair of grips for a 45 pistol out of corian, it took about 18 hours+ from start to finish,so i can appreciate what it takes to make things..besides ,im sure ill wind up buying one sooner or later....
 
Tony8179 said:
This thread has become ridiculous. I'm thinking that most of the people complaining are pissed because they want one, but don't like the price. Whining like a 4 year old isn't going to bring down the price. Slamming AG and his knives isn't going to bring down the price. Attacking Kershaw (which is just stupid) is not going to bring down the price. If you're a CRK fanatic then you know in your heart of hearts that this is no copy of the Sebenza. I own Sebenzas, I use my Sebenzas, and I love my Sebenzas. I look at this knife I don't see a Sebenza. I see another Ti Framelock offering from another maker that wants to get in on the Ti framelock craze. And it is a craze.

I agree that the price was a bit more than I was expecting, but it won't sway me to not purchase it. You're going to be getting a high quality knife with high quality materials. Once the knife is in your hand and you don't like it just return it and get your money back.

All this bull$hit over a knife that hasn't even been produced yet is insane. No one knows anything about the knife other than what they've read. Making snap judgements from some pictures and some text is just plain ignorant. How many Knifenuts have you spoken to that can't imagine paying $400 for a Sebenza in their lives? How many of those same people end up with one and love it? I was one of those people at one point. It's all about getting the knife in your hand and using it. Passing because Kershaw made it? Pardon me, but that is retarded. Kershaw makes some excellent knives, offers great customer service, and offers an almost unbeatable warranty. As soon as Kershaw haters see that it was made by Kershaw they are going to flame this knife. Nothing else matters to them except that it was made by Kershaw.

Jesus, are you the same people that argued about whether the SNES or Sega Genesis was better? Why don't you wait until the knife comes out and some reviews are done until you judge the knife. Better yet, stop your whining and moaning, nut up, and buy one. Then you can give us your review about how much you hate the knife.
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Relax amigo, i think the only people upset are the ones that don't like others opinions.

They are all just pocket knives...they come and they go..who really cares. :D

IMO, when i first saw the pics i just thought it was UGLY and full of useless mall ninja gimmics...you know...Tactical stuff for the flavor of the week crowd. :D

65RC...boo hoo , sounds like a pain to sharpen that will chip (IMO).

These are just my opinions, they don't mean a thing..if this knife brings some joy to new owners then thats what it all about.

Enjoy your blades guys. :)
 
I personally really liked this knife when I saw it. Then came the sticker shock. Then came the knowledge that Kershaw made it. I might buy one now, I know exactly what I'm getting for my money, and I'm positive it would be worth it.
 
I really like the knife. If I had a discount code or something for 10% -15% I would buy it. It is just slightly out of my range.
 
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