Nice features on new A G Russell Ti Framelock..

[A_Blade_Afficionado]

I give up. Sheesh. It was never my intent to slam Kershaw but every time I've attempted to explain that slamming Kershaw wasn't my intent, it came off just the opposite. I can't win. It's like arguing with a caveman. I quit. The knife is worth whatever you want it to be worth. Count me out. Thanks.

Cut the BS. You blatantly bashed Kershaw and then built up Spyderco.
If you honestly thought Spyderco could have made it you're out of touch. The blade shape isn't a leaf and there's no hole in the blade so if you truly liked Spyderco you'd know it wasn't made by them. (An observation, not an attack, whatever floats your boat)

Voice your opinion all you want but own up to your words, don't pretend to be innocent when your intent is all but innocent.

 

[darthsoaker]

With all due respect Sir, i think your out of touch with reality.

This aint my first rodeo and i been around for a minute.

I have owned several leeks...my friend and I give Kershaws as well as guns to the boy scouts....kershaws are great knives for the price and make great user's...They are sharp enough out of the box to perform the tasks you describe above.

The Leek is a small folder and does not afford the leverage that a knife the size of the one this thread is about.

In My Opinion.

Is the Hinderer thingy needed ? No

Is a lowrider clip needed ? No

Is this blade steel needed ? No

People get caught up in all the marketing B.S. and completely lose sight of whats needed in a folder for 95% of the daily tasks a folder is used for.

Reality guys !!

When one crosses the threshold of real world folder tasks...then one should use a fixed blade.

When i use the words " Mall Ninja " I'm talking about the user.

So your problem is not with this knife in particular, but more expensive knives in general...?

 

[Harry Callahan]

I was never under the illusion that Spyderco was the contract shop. Honestly, until it was revealed on this thread who the actual maker was, I didn't even consider WHO made it. It was simply an AG offering and that was that. The whole Kershaw thing was introduced afterwards. That's when everything came crashing down (in my view). Heck, I didn't even know Kershaw had a factory on these shores. Now I'm expected to all-of-a-sudden "trust" the fact that they can deliver CRK (or Spyderco) type quality? Puleeeeze.... Until the other day I didn't even know Kershaw made knives in the US. I honestly had them filed away in the same vein as Cold Steel. Importers. Who knew? No slam intended, but there's no telling you folks that. So nevermind....

Kershaw, to me, means Walmart crapola and a few models in the showcase on the Snap-on tool truck. I didn't know they made knives in the US. I knew they had some Seki models made decades ago that are quite sought after, but I was under the honest impression that anything they had their name on in the past ten years was Chinese crap. Maybe they should work on their advertising. Who knew?

 

[Tony8179]

I'm trying to think why this knife would cost $350-$400. I keep coming up with the same conclusion. It's properly priced.

Importing the Raw ZDP-189 to this country has to be expensive. Purchasing the machining tools that are required to produce the knife has to be expensive. The fact that it's USA made adds to the pricetag. Hiring a high quality company like Kershaw to produce the knife can't be cheap. Kershaw has to put some of their designs on the back burner to work with AG to create this knife the way AG wants it made. I can't believe that this is a cost efficient thing to do for either Kershaw or AG Russell, but AG wanted this knife made the way he wanted it made so if it costs a few extra nickels so be it.

Does AG Russell have to pay any royalties to the makers he gave recognition to in his despcription of the knife? I don't know, but I wouldn't count that out. To produce a knife like this is going to cost a pretty penny. If there are only a limited number produced then it's going to cost even more. Makers are in it to create a profit while pleasing their customer base and that's that. I'm just really surprised that everyone is making such a big deal about the price.

 

[Tony8179]

I was never under the illusion that Spyderco was the contract shop. Honestly, until it was revealed on this thread who the actual maker was, I didn't even consider WHO made it. It was simply an AG offering and that was that. The whole Kershaw thing was introduced afterwards. That's when everything came crashing down (in my view). Heck, I didn't even know Kershaw had a factory on these shores. Now I'm expected to all-of-a-sudden "trust" the fact that they can deliver CRK (or Spyderco) type quality? Puleeeeze.... Until the other day I didn't even know Kershaw made knives in the US. I honestly had them filed away in the same vein as Cold Steel. Importers. Who knew? No slam intended, but there's no telling you folks that. So nevermind....

Kershaw, to me, means Walmart crapola and a few models in the showcase on the Snap-on tool truck. I didn't know they made knives in the US. I knew they had some Seki models made decades ago that are quite sought after, but I was under the honest impression that anything they had their name on in the past ten years was Chinese crap. Maybe they should work on their advertising. Who knew?

Maybe you should just do a little more research before you make assumptions? Kershaw has produced high quality US made models for years. If something is offered through Wal-Mart that's a bad thing? Spyderco never offered any of their knives at Wal-Mart? That's where I bought my Native. Keep digging maybe you'll strike oil.

 

[hwpaintballer]

I was never under the illusion that Spyderco was the contract shop. Honestly, until it was revealed on this thread who the actual maker was, I didn't even consider WHO made it. It was simply an AG offering and that was that. The whole Kershaw thing was introduced afterwards. That's when everything came crashing down (in my view). Heck, I didn't even know Kershaw had a factory on these shores. Now I'm expected to all-of-a-sudden "trust" the fact that they can deliver CRK (or Spyderco) type quality? Puleeeeze.... Until the other day I didn't even know Kershaw made knives in the US. I honestly had them filed away in the same vein as Cold Steel. Importers. Who knew? No slam intended, but there's no telling you folks that. So nevermind....

Kershaw, to me, means Walmart crapola and a few models in the showcase on the Snap-on tool truck. I didn't know they made knives in the US. I knew they had some Seki models made decades ago that are quite sought after, but I was under the honest impression that anything they had their name on in the past ten years was Chinese crap. Maybe they should work on their advertising. Who knew?

Are you just trolling now?

An overwhelming proportion of knives produced by Kershaw are made in Oregon (I would dare to guess at least 90%), have you not spotted the American flag on most of their boxes? Those would be the "Made in the USA" ones. Also that "Wal-mart crapola" made no sense to me what-so-ever, take a look at ANY kershaw in Wal-mart, made in the USA.

 

[Morrow]

I was never under the illusion that Spyderco was the contract shop. Honestly, until it was revealed on this thread who the actual maker was, I didn't even consider WHO made it. It was simply an AG offering and that was that. The whole Kershaw thing was introduced afterwards. That's when everything came crashing down (in my view). Heck, I didn't even know Kershaw had a factory on these shores. Now I'm expected to all-of-a-sudden "trust" the fact that they can deliver CRK (or Spyderco) type quality? Puleeeeze.... Until the other day I didn't even know Kershaw made knives in the US. I honestly had them filed away in the same vein as Cold Steel. Importers. Who knew? No slam intended, but there's no telling you folks that. So nevermind....

Kershaw, to me, means Walmart crapola and a few models in the showcase on the Snap-on tool truck. I didn't know they made knives in the US. I knew they had some Seki models made decades ago that are quite sought after, but I was under the honest impression that anything they had their name on in the past ten years was Chinese crap. Maybe they should work on their advertising. Who knew?

Most of the current Kershaw offerings at Walmart are made in the US.

I bought my first Spyderco at Walmart. I still have that Native. It's a good thing I looked at quality of the knife and not where I bought it or I could have mistakenly categorized Spyderco knives as Walmart crapola.

Harry, I'll tell you what. I'll email you a list of Kershaws that I have. You can pick a couple and I'll send them to you to test drive. Give them a fair and honest assessment. If you don't like them after using them for a while you'll at least have specific reasons why and that's a good thing.

 

[bchan77]

I'm trying to think why this knife would cost $350-$400. I keep coming up with the same conclusion. It's properly priced.

...

My thoughts exactly. I don't have problems with the price also. To produce such a knife at $40 as someone had suggested? You got to be kidding.

On the other hand...

Kershaw, to me, means Walmart crapola and a few models in the showcase on the Snap-on tool truck. I didn't know they made knives in the US. I knew they had some Seki models made decades ago that are quite sought after, but I was under the honest impression that anything they had their name on in the past ten years was Chinese crap. Maybe they should work on their advertising. Who knew?

OK, we now know how little you know about Kershaw. Do yourself a favor and do your homework before writing silly things such as this.

 

[Harry Callahan]

No I haven't seen an American flag on a Kershaw box. I haven't even SEEN a Kershaw box. Kershaw hasn't been on my radar screen. Ever. I vaguely remember hearing about the old Seki Kershaws that were worth big bucks but other than that, Kershaw hasn't tripped my trigger. I've seen the speed assist craze they've been pushing. Folks that I work with have em. I've paid about as much attention to Kershaw in the past ten years that a Jewish meat cutter pays attention to the newest swine cutlet chart. Gimmicky is what comes to mind. So imagine my disappointment when it was revealed that the maker of this AG offering was Kershaw. Just imagine it for a moment. Not trying to pee in anyone's oatmeal, I posted the fact that it was a deal killer. And I was flamed. Kershaw, it seems, does in fact have the capability to make a competetive seb. Whether or not it's actually worth 4 bux is still up for debate but I've been (repeatedly) chastised over the coals that they REALLY CAN DO THIS, on our very shores. Whatever. Maybe. Time will tell, but time will tell without my help. You may have convinced me that Kershaw can make a knife to these specs on our shores, but you ain't gonna get me to spend four bills on it. There IS a difference.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Harry, I'll tell you what. I'll email you a list of Kershaws that I have. You can pick a couple and I'll send them to you to test drive. Give them a fair and honest assessment. If you don't like them after using them for a while you'll at least have specific reasons why and that's a good thing.

I appreciate the offer and I will take you up on it. If Kershaw can walk the walk then that's all that matters. I will post my thoughts after a comprehensive test run. PM inbound.

 

[elkins45]

Why is this thread still active? It's served its purpose already. Isn't it time to move on to other arguments?

 

[Tony8179]

No I haven't seen an American flag on a Kershaw box. I haven't even SEEN a Kershaw box. Kershaw hasn't been on my radar screen. Ever. I vaguely remember hearing about the old Seki Kershaws that were worth big bucks but other than that, Kershaw hasn't tripped my trigger. I've seen the speed assist craze they've been pushing. Folks that I work with have em. I've paid about as much attention to Kershaw in the past ten years that a Jewish meat cutter pays attention to the newest swine cutlet chart. Gimmicky is what comes to mind. So imagine my disappointment when it was revealed that the maker of this AG offering was Kershaw. Just imagine it for a moment. Not trying to pee in anyone's oatmeal, I posted the fact that it was a deal killer. And I was flamed. Kershaw, it seems, does in fact have the capability to make a competetive seb. Whether or not it's actually worth 4 bux is still up for debate but I've been (repeatedly) chastised over the coals that they REALLY CAN DO THIS, on our very shores. Whatever. Maybe. Time will tell, but time will tell without my help. You may have convinced me that Kershaw can make a knife to these specs on our shores, but you ain't gonna get me to spend four bills on it. There IS a difference.

So you go off about Kershaw without ever owning or even handling one? You know nothing of what they offer except for what you see in your co-worker's hand and your mind's eye. Talk about ignorance. Would you mind telling me what you think of the Ferrari Enzo and how it handles?

 

[Gator97]

I have owned several leeks...

ZDP-189 or no? It kindda matters

Is the Hinderer thingy needed ? No

Is a lowrider clip needed ? No

Is this blade steel needed ? No

People get caught up in all the marketing B.S. and completely lose sight of whats needed in a folder for 95% of the daily tasks a folder is used for.

I have no problems with your opinion, everyone is entitled to one(or more), but your conclusion that everyone who bought ZDP-189 or CPM-110V steel was caught up, lost sight, etc. Or nobody needs what you listed above... It's a little too much, don't you think?

Reality guys !!

Exactly. I can sharpen my ZDP or 110V knife at very thin angle, it will outcut and outlast cheaper steel at much thicker angles.

When one crosses the threshold of real world folder tasks...then one should use a fixed blade.

Right and having 40 deg angle edge on the folder is just what the doctor ordered...

i guess you know more than Kershaw because you have modified there factory angle.

??? So we should stick to the factory edges? Otherwise we "caught up" and blundered?

 

[hwpaintballer]

No I haven't seen an American flag on a Kershaw box. I haven't even SEEN a Kershaw box. Kershaw hasn't been on my radar screen. Ever. I vaguely remember hearing about the old Seki Kershaws that were worth big bucks but other than that, Kershaw hasn't tripped my trigger. I've seen the speed assist craze they've been pushing. Folks that I work with have em. I've paid about as much attention to Kershaw in the past ten years that a Jewish meat cutter pays attention to the newest swine cutlet chart. Gimmicky is what comes to mind. So imagine my disappointment when it was revealed that the maker of this AG offering was Kershaw. Just imagine it for a moment. Not trying to pee in anyone's oatmeal, I posted the fact that it was a deal killer. And I was flamed. Kershaw, it seems, does in fact have the capability to make a competetive seb. Whether or not it's actually worth 4 bux is still up for debate but I've been (repeatedly) chastised over the coals that they REALLY CAN DO THIS, on our very shores. Whatever. Maybe. Time will tell, but time will tell without my help. You may have convinced me that Kershaw can make a knife to these specs on our shores, but you ain't gonna get me to spend four bills on it. There IS a difference.

How many posts in this thread have stated that when it comes to pricing the ball is in AG's court, Kershaw really doesn't have a dog in the fight. As far as speed safe is concerned, if you don't like it then don't get one with it, they still produce a number of knives without it, my two favorite being the RAM and JYDII. If your looking for a heck of a kershaw with a titanium frame lock and rare steel, look up the Volt, speedform, Ti/SG2 JYDII, Ti leek, Ti mini-cyclone, and I believe Ti spec bump (all of them sprint runs, the first two getting ready to be manufactured, and the speedform even received an award at blade 2009). Or check out another KAI company, ZT.

 

[PG5768]

I was never under the illusion that Spyderco was the contract shop. Honestly, until it was revealed on this thread who the actual maker was, I didn't even consider WHO made it. It was simply an AG offering and that was that. The whole Kershaw thing was introduced afterwards. That's when everything came crashing down (in my view). Heck, I didn't even know Kershaw had a factory on these shores. Now I'm expected to all-of-a-sudden "trust" the fact that they can deliver CRK (or Spyderco) type quality? Puleeeeze.... Until the other day I didn't even know Kershaw made knives in the US. I honestly had them filed away in the same vein as Cold Steel. Importers. Who knew? No slam intended, but there's no telling you folks that. So nevermind....

Kershaw, to me, means Walmart crapola and a few models in the showcase on the Snap-on tool truck. I didn't know they made knives in the US. I knew they had some Seki models made decades ago that are quite sought after, but I was under the honest impression that anything they had their name on in the past ten years was Chinese crap. Maybe they should work on their advertising. Who knew?

Harry, aside from the fact that you come across as a full of crap (a word you seem to like ), un-informed, seemingly apologetic rolleyes troll, it might interest you to know that Kershaw opened its doors in Oswego, Oregon in 1974. Al Mar and Pete Kershaw worked for Gerber (before Fiskars) and went off separately and started their own knife companies in the '70s.

Kershaw currently has a state-of-the-art 55,000 sq. ft. facility in Tualatin, Oregon that's home to their manufacturing operation. Their "no hassle lifetime warranty" is the best in the business. Their partnership with Ken Onion introduced the Assisted Opening knife to the world in 1998. High end steels, innovative design collaborations (Onion, Strider, Galyean, Hawk, Martin, etc.), and their competitive pricing put them at the top of my list. That doesn't mean that I won't look at offerings from other manufacturers (or marketers).

I do appreciate some sage advice that Sal Glesser's given in the Spyderco sub-forum, leave "shiny footprints". We're all here because we love knives. Maybe you should try a little harder to live up to Sal's example.

BTW: Before I spend $375 on any production knife, I will own a Sebenza first. Otherwise I wouldn't have anything to compare it to.

 

[J_Curd]

Honestly, until it was revealed on this thread who the actual maker was, I didn't even consider WHO made it. It was simply an AG offering and that was that. The whole Kershaw thing was introduced afterwards. That's when everything came crashing down (in my view). Heck, I didn't even know Kershaw had a factory on these shores. Now I'm expected to all-of-a-sudden "trust" the fact that they can deliver CRK (or Spyderco) type quality? Puleeeeze.... Until the other day I didn't even know Kershaw made knives in the US....blah blah blah

I love it when trolls admit they have no clue about which they speak.

 

[enderwiggin]

That looks quite a bit like a Sebenza.

However, it also looks a lot like another really nice, functional offering from A.G. Russel.

The price is more than a little rich for my blood, but it's a very nice looking knife. I'm sure the quality will be what we've come to expect from A.G. as well. :thumbup:

 

[SPXTrader]

My guess is that anyone talking about price missed this post by Thomas W:

So I'll assume your explanation is the same as elkins45 wrote, dunno for sure?

OEM projects like these will always bring a premium price tag, and I'm unsure why this needs explaining. This isn't a Kershaw or ZT knife, it's an OEM project. These projects are not necessarily efficient for us as a an organization, as they disrupt the flow of everyday business. Projects like these bring on premium floor space from the factory, and the upscale materials used are difficult to work with along with being very expensive. ZDP is a bear, and a Ti framelock, is a challenge.
We did this particular knife due to the relationship we have with A.G. A.G. is very strict when it comes to the details and tolerances when putting his name on a knife, and we're focusing on meeting his demands.

There's no two step distribution, or deep discounting dealers involved here. You can't even compare this piece to a Kai USA branded knife, and for not one person to post on this is kind of odd to me. As others have said, we all want the deal of the day, but I thought I would throw some reasoning why into the discussion.
What there is here, is an investment from all parties involved to create one sweet knife that brings forth materials everyone felt would be desired. Oh, I should mentioned I checked the hardness on the ZDP last week, and it came in at 65.5 Rc.

As to the pattern itself, I'll leave that for all you to put under the microscope. I personally don't understand where there's an issue, at all. If there was an issue in our eyes, we would have passed on producing the piece.

To summarize, AG wanted a specific knife made for him. USA made with ZDP. Now AG is smart enough to know that Kershaw is the ONLY manufacturer outside Japan that Hitachi will allow to work with raw ZDP. ALL other ZDP blades you see other than Kershaw's and soon to be AG's are heat treated and cut in Japan. So as Thomas said, the production of what AG wanted is expensive, both in materials and production costs. And the sole distribution chain is AG. He is paying the costs, he gets to set the price. Take it or leave it, its that simple.

Thomas went on to address Harry's contribution to this thread:

Harry...two words for you, shiny footprints. The true faithful will be more impressed.

I guess Harry missed this one completely. And I'm confused. I keep up with the majority of production knives made regardless of manufacturer. What is a Salbenza? Never heard of it.

 

[PG5768]

I love it when trolls admit they have no clue about which they speak.

+1. We can try to give them a clue, its up to them to get it. Otherwise they'll remain a Troll, IMO.

 

[hwpaintballer]

I guess Harry missed this one completely. And I'm confused. I keep up with the majority of production knives made regardless of manufacturer. What is a Salbenza? Never heard of it.

Salbenza, it could be taking a drill press to the thumb studs on a sebenza and creating a spydie hole, or it could be the Ti military with a frame lock (RIL).