No weapons signs/zones. Obey or ignore?

jimh0220 said:
Carrying an ankle knife to conceal it is not addressed in the law, only using a knife for the above criminal use. Concealment is a judgement call, because any traditional knife, that does not have a pocket clip, or a knife with a clip that is covered by a shirt could also be concealed. Concealment is not addressed except in the context of how it is used.
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Here is my source for Washington knife laws- http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/ It appears that the information is current as of October 30 2013

9.41.250(1)(b) says, and I quote- "Every person who:" "Furtively carries with the intent to conceal any dirk, dagger, pistol, or other dangerous weapon" "is guilty of a gross misdemeanor".

Again, the Washington penal code provides no definition for the terms "dirk" or "dagger". My Webster's dictionary however defines a dagger as, and I quote- "a weapon with a short, pointed blade, used for stabbing"

Like I said, since there is no specific definition of "dirk" or "dagger" in Washington law, a prosecutor is free to make their own interpretation, subject to a judges approval. And if a prosecutor decides to use a dictionary, a person carrying a concealed Kabar TDI could be in trouble.

Something I've learned when it comes to the law is, never interpret the law in a way that is most favorable to you. Try to interpret the law in a way that is most favorable to a prosecutor, because it will be the prosecutor who decides whether or not you are charged with a crime should you be arrested. The point has already been made in this thread that what YOU call your knife doesn't matter in court. What matters is what a PROSECUTOR calls your knife.

Now if the information on the website I linked is inaccurate, then you have my apologies. If it is inaccurate, I would appreciate it if you could provide me with your source for Washington's penal code, or any online source that says the concealed carry of "dirks" and "daggers" is no longer illegal in Washington, so that I can read it for myself.
 
To be honest I have carried a knife on me everywhere except in court, I've carried one in the courthouse but not in the courtroom. The general attitude towards knives here is they are tools, so I've walked into many police stations with a knife , schools well I don't have kids so haven't done that, federal buildings no because they have metal detectors at the front door. Its kind of laid back down here though , knives are just as common as cell phones, and I've only seen one knife every get confiscated and it was in a federal building where the army's recruiting office is, I was shooting the bull with a recruiter I knew and an SFC came in with his knife and the guards at the building were more than happy to take it . Signs down here say no firearms on premises, but if the law or sign states specifically no knives then that means no knives, and IMO as a responsible knife owner its your job to obey the law, and not give big brother another reason to take away more of our rights.

On the other hand my work has a no firearms policy, and a few guys were overheard talking about their guns in their cars, well the big wigs(non American) wanted them fired for it. Well the guys who carried the firearms in their cars made a huge deal of it saying their 2nd amendment rights outweighed the policies of a major corporation. Long story short a few attornies later and negotiations between attornies and big wigs , now you are permitted to carry your firearm but it stays in your car, we are subject to metal detectors and have security officers everywhere now,but we can carry our guns as long as they stay in the car...
 
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Where I live I have to obey...
And to be honest, I don't think I am such an addict to go against laws and regulations .... :)
I carry a knife because it can be a n every day useful tool, when it is a problem rather than a solution, I preference to leave it at home
 
I use common sense that was taught to me over 50 years ago use it or loose it. That being said when I go salmon fishing at a power plant pier they have a sign that reads no alcohol beyond this point. My fishing Buddy looks at me and says that sign isin't for us. I don't know why but this seems to cover most of the needless signage posted all over our rights. Common sense and the freedom to use it :thumbup: Or loose it.
 
b yond said:
Waitwaitwait.... Why would "no weapons" signs have anything to do with carrying knives?
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When the people posting the sign specify so?

Aluminum-Projecting-No-Guns-Sign-S-4578.gif
 
Restrictions on knives are entirely unreasonable and should not be followed unless there is a very high chance of prohibitive enforcement from metal detectors, wands, or frisks. It is unfortunate that that we have allowed arbitrary, unreasonable policies to infect our schools and other public places.

Unreasonable, arbitrary rules do not deserve respect or compliance. People have elected to defy and ignore arbitrary and absurd laws for centuries. Here are a few examples: (1) civil rights activists performed sit-ins and elected to ride at the front of the bus; (2) people drank alcohol during prohibition; (3) unmarried people engaged in intimate acts; and (4) people carry and use knives in reasonably safe manners in "prohibited" areas. These "defiant" behaviors are natural and noble because some rules place fundamentally unreasonable restraints on individual autonomy that must be ignored.

There are likely many unreasonable, antiquated laws in your jurisdiction that you defy on a daily basis without thought, and would likely continue to do so if they were enforced. As individuals who love knives and multi-tools, we have a duty to contest, challenge, and ignore unreasonable restrictions on our personal autonomy and right to carry basic tools.
 
Restrictions on knives are entirely unreasonable and should not be followed unless there is a very high chance of prohibitive enforcement from metal detectors, wands, or frisks. It is unfortunate that that we have allowed arbitrary, unreasonable policies to infect our schools and other public places.

Unreasonable, arbitrary rules do not deserve respect or compliance. People have elected to defy and ignore arbitrary and absurd laws for centuries. Here are a few examples: (1) civil rights activists performed sit-ins and elected to ride at the front of the bus; (2) people drank alcohol during prohibition; (3) unmarried people engaged in intimate acts; and (4) people carry and use knives in reasonably safe manners in "prohibited" areas. These "defiant" behaviors are natural and noble because some rules place fundamentally unreasonable restraints on individual autonomy that must be ignored.

There are likely many unreasonable, antiquated laws in your jurisdiction that you defy on a daily basis without thought, and would likely continue to do so if they were enforced. As individuals who love knives and multi-tools, we have a duty to contest, challenge, and ignore unreasonable restrictions on our personal autonomy and right to carry basic tools.
 
Disobedience is the means that the masses have to retain liberty from oppressive laws, and to moderate the powers of the lawmakers. Popular laws will be observed and recognized, while bad laws are not, and when enough people weigh in with disobedience on a particular law it can motivate changes to such laws up to including the abandonment of them.
 
Oakengroves said:
Restrictions on knives are entirely unreasonable and should not be followed unless there is a very high chance of prohibitive enforcement from metal detectors, wands, or frisks. It is unfortunate that that we have allowed arbitrary, unreasonable policies to infect our schools and other public places.

Unreasonable, arbitrary rules do not deserve respect or compliance. People have elected to defy and ignore arbitrary and absurd laws for centuries. Here are a few examples: (1) civil rights activists performed sit-ins and elected to ride at the front of the bus; (2) people drank alcohol during prohibition; (3) unmarried people engaged in intimate acts; and (4) people carry and use knives in reasonably safe manners in "prohibited" areas. These "defiant" behaviors are natural and noble because some rules place fundamentally unreasonable restraints on individual autonomy that must be ignored.

There are likely many unreasonable, antiquated laws in your jurisdiction that you defy on a daily basis without thought, and would likely continue to do so if they were enforced. As individuals who love knives and multi-tools, we have a duty to contest, challenge, and ignore unreasonable restrictions on our personal autonomy and right to carry basic tools.
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Best thing I have read on here in awhile; Well spoken.
 
jimh0220 said:
Why the flagrant disregard for laws and requirements for no weapons? A KNIFE IS A WEAPON! [...]
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You already got it wrong there: A knife is a tool, not a weapon!
There are people who abuse tools as weapons, those are bad people. But tools never hurt people, people hurt people!
Knives are the oldest tools of cicilization, invented somewhere between the fire and the wheel. We would never be where we are without the invention of the knife!
My knives are tools, and are going to be used as such! And I'll carry my tools whereever I might meed them.

The media makes a big fuss about knives as weapons, but look at the statistics: What do you think is the most used "weapon" to "stab" people?
1. Kitchen knives
2. Scissors
3. Screwdrivers
4. makeshift Shivs

See something there?

Always remember: Weapons/Tools do NOT hurt people, people hurt people!
 
My old high school stated in their code of conduct.

Weapon: A firearm as defined in 18 USC §921 for purposes of the Gun-Free Schools Act or anything else that can cause physical injury or death when used to cause physical injury or death.
 
rider9195 said:
My old high school stated in their code of conduct.

Weapon: A firearm as defined in 18 USC §921 for purposes of the Gun-Free Schools Act or anything else that can cause physical injury or death when used to cause physical injury or death.
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That last section is so vague. Almost anything could be used as a weapon to cause physical injury.
 
jkulysses said:
That last section is so vague. Almost anything could be used as a weapon to cause physical injury.
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It is not really vague. Your Number 2 pencil or Cold Steel Recon 1 is not a weapon until "WHEN USED" to inflict death or GBH. Kinda like closing the barn door after the livestock is missing.
 
jkulysses said:
That last section is so vague. Almost anything could be used as a weapon to cause physical injury.
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That's the point. If a student uses a pen/pencil to stab another student, then they've used a weapon, not a pen/pencil -- according to their interpretation. It's actually the logical extension of what we are saying here that a knife is not a weapon in and of itself. It is the misuse that makes it a weapon.
 
Bufford said:
Disobedience is the means that the masses have to retain liberty from oppressive laws, and to moderate the powers of the lawmakers. Popular laws will be observed and recognized, while bad laws are not, and when enough people weigh in with disobedience on a particular law it can motivate changes to such laws up to including the abandonment of them.
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That sounds like a good definition of anarchy. If people choose to disobey any law that THEY consider to be "oppressive", we would have anarchy, rioting, looting, etc.

Last time I checked we live in a democracy, and that means we have the right to petition our DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED LEADERS for laws to be changed when we disagree with them. And if those leaders don't do what we want, we have the right to replace them with different leaders at the next election. Simply ignoring laws and blatantly disobeying them isn't a good way to change the laws for the better, instead it's a great way to help pass more restrictive laws, get arrested, lose your job, lose your home, go to jail or prison, get a criminal record that haunts you for the rest of your life, and wind up bankrupt.

Several restrictive knife laws have been repealed over the last year in this country, not through open disobedience, but through the democratic process of lobbying and reasonable discourse. I'm sure that if people, say in Texas, chose to ignore the ban on switchblades in large numbers and there had been a sharp increase in switchblade related arrests, that the Governor of Texas would never have signed the bill repealing the ban on switchblades.

There's a HUGE difference between a person being required to sit at the back of the bus because of their race, and a person not being able to carry any weapon, or any knife they want wherever they want.
 
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