No weapons signs/zones. Obey or ignore?

OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
I don't think it's all that serious brother. People just want a little extra sense of security or to carry their favorite little pocket knife. Majority of people consider laws and rules as something designed to serve people...and break one or more on a somewhat regular basis if they don't feel anyone is harmed in the process.

I don't drive over posted speed limits but at the same time I don't feel that the vast majority who treat them as the minimum speed guide are outlaws.

If your county or state banned pocket knives tomorrow would you feel bad carrying one out of the house sometimes?
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I wouldn't do it at all. Plain and simple. Law abiding is a tough concept, but I follow it. I must be the minority.
I like knives. I use knives. I don't need to go to jail or become a felon over my knives.
 
No Weapon Zones I obey. Signs I don't care much about as they don't carry the weight of the law in my state.

Not really talking about knives, though.
 
T. Erdelyi said:
When it applies to everyone without exception I might consider it but you know darn well the maintenance guy has a knife and we all know how stable maintenance guys are.
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Funnily enough all the maintenance guys at mine do have knives. ;) But again, there's no rule or posted sign that says they can't.
 
BryanNomad said:
Jimh0220, I see your point, but I started this thread as a discussion and opportunity to debate a topic, not as a place to sling insult or pass judgement. No one is going to take anything you say seriously when your calling them an idiot.
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Idiots break laws intentionally and choose to willingly disrespect the rules laid out be establishments. You have a better name for it? I do, but I would get popped by the mods for using them here.
 
T. Erdelyi said:
When it applies to everyone without exception I might consider it but you know darn well the maintenance guy has a knife and we all know how stable maintenance guys are.
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The maintenace guy, if he has one, needs it for his job, and only uses it for such. You need one in the same place for what job? Oh yeas, you're not working there, are you? BTW, when have you heard about the rash of maintenance guy box knife killing sprees? I must have missed that news. Nice try.
 
I see no knives, or guns signs around here at hospitals mainly, then it says no knives with an over 2.5" blade. (bring your Spyderco Dodo) Not all of them even have such a sign. Then there's the post office, but the people that work there don't care at all. I've even used a knife to cut stuff while wrapping a package to mail. (another knife inside!) The electric company has a no concealed weapons sign and again the employees there don't care, because they know everybody in this small town. I've even joked and asked if I wear a pistol on my side in the open is that alright? The lady working there just laughed and said it's not my sign. She also said it's a dumb sign because how are we going to know if it's concealed? It's also stated when you take the course to obtain a concealed deadly weapons permit, that you can't carry into the sheriff's office, which I find a bit odd, being they are the ones you go through to obtain the permit and if you have anything negative in your background at all, you will be denied.

Those signs that are not backed up with a metal detector and a security guard, to me just offer nothing in the way of safety. Someone that truly is bent on misuse of a weapon isn't going to obey them. Someone that isn't going to misuse a weapon and doesn't obey them, is not a threat. So, the signs really are impotent and at best give the general public a false sense of security.
 
I just know (or hope) that if I go about my business when I do end up in an area which prohibits items that may be perceived as weapons and not bring any attention to myself, I'll be ok.
 
Knife does not = weapon in Canada.
Unless it is intended or specifically designed as one.
Which is why I can carry one without getting a charge for carrying a weapon.
Unless it's something like a dagger.
Or I act a complete loon and prove I was intending it as one.
 
jimh0220 said:
Why the flagrant disregard for laws and requirements for no weapons? A KNIFE IS A WEAPON!
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Not everyone lives in a totalitarian state. In our state, "weapon" is defined by the law, not some business owner who doesn't like knives, or some random internet "expert." If it isn't a double edged dagger, dirk, brass knuckles, throwing star, etc., then it isn't classified as a weapon. Before July 1, any knife with a 4"+ blade, autos and balisongs were considered "weapons" but that changed, so now they are not legally weapons. If I see a "no weapons" sign on a private business, I check to make sure I don't have any double edged daggers, dirks, brass knuckles, etc. on my person (and since I don't even own any of those, it's an easy check). I can legally carry my Benchmade Contego past such a sign and not break any law. Our state CCW law specifies what sign carries the force of law in banning concealed guns, and a sign saying "No Weapons" doesn't cut the mustard -- according to the law. If they see it, they can ask me to leave. If I don't, they can have me cited for trespass, but that's it. If I see a properly posted business, I can choose to either leave my pistol in my vehicle or take my business and money somewhere else. It doesn't apply to knives at all.

Gov't property is a different matter. Our courthouse has the proper sign to ban CCW, and metal detectors and armed deputies to back it up (courthouse is attached to the jail). If you bring a knife in with you, they'll take it, store it in a locked drawer, and give you a slip of paper you can use to reclaim your knife when you leave. No fuss, no hard time, just "put it in here. Here's your receipt. Turn this in when you leave and get your property back. Have a nice visit!"

Our school has no policy on visitors bringing a knife into the buildings. They are properly posted for guns, so I leave it in the vehicle and carry my knife in. According to the law it is not a weapon, so I'm not doing anything illegal or wrong. If a teacher doesn't like it... tough. I'm not violating any law nor threatening anyone. And if anyone feels threatened over a fancy knife with a blue and sliver handle and purple backspacer, I'd say the problem is them, not the knife.
 
jimh0220 said:
The maintenace guy, if he has one, needs it for his job, and only uses it for such. You need one in the same place for what job? Oh yea, you're not working there, are you? BTW, when have you heard about the rash of maintenance guy box knife killing sprees? I must have missed that news. Nice try.
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Careful, I worked as a mechanic in the courthouse and nursing home in my county, I can attest to the instability of most mechanics working in the public works dept.

We had carpenter's with anger management issues, bipolar electricians, paranoid plumbers, mad as a batter machinist who made homemade canons and shot guns in the shop, mechanics are people too, careful who you trust with a knife in your schools, they may have mental flaws also.
 
In Oklahoma, the No Weapons signs refer to handguns. A lot came out when Open Carry was signed into law in late 2011. A lot also came back down due to the activities of pro-gun people here. As for whether to ignore them or not, it is not an arrestable offense here. The shop owner can ask you to leave, if you fail to comply, the MAN can be called and you given a fine. I mostly carry concealed, so I ignore them. Always have. Concealed is concealed. All that shows on me is a couple metal clips on my belt, that are black to match said gun belt. Unless I am wearing a tight fitting shirt, it does not print. I wear tight shirts all the time, my 1911 prints big time, never had a word said to me about it by anyone, anywhere.

Obviously court and government buildings are No-Nos. I do my level best to avoid places where guns are not permitted.
 
loonybin said:
Not everyone lives in a totalitarian state. In our state, "weapon" is defined by the law, not some business owner who doesn't like knives, or some random internet "expert." If it isn't a double edged dagger, dirk, brass knuckles, throwing star, etc., then it isn't classified as a weapon. Before July 1, any knife with a 4"+ blade, autos and balisongs were considered "weapons" but that changed, so now they are not legally weapons. If I see a "no weapons" sign on a private business, I check to make sure I don't have any double edged daggers, dirks, brass knuckles, etc. on my person (and since I don't even own any of those, it's an easy check). I can legally carry my Benchmade Contego past such a sign and not break any law. Our state CCW law specifies what sign carries the force of law in banning concealed guns, and a sign saying "No Weapons" doesn't cut the mustard -- according to the law. If they see it, they can ask me to leave. If I don't, they can have me cited for trespass, but that's it. If I see a properly posted business, I can choose to either leave my pistol in my vehicle or take my business and money somewhere else. It doesn't apply to knives at all.

Gov't property is a different matter. Our courthouse has the proper sign to ban CCW, and metal detectors and armed deputies to back it up (courthouse is attached to the jail). If you bring a knife in with you, they'll take it, store it in a locked drawer, and give you a slip of paper you can use to reclaim your knife when you leave. No fuss, no hard time, just "put it in here. Here's your receipt. Turn this in when you leave and get your property back. Have a nice visit!"

Our school has no policy on visitors bringing a knife into the buildings. They are properly posted for guns, so I leave it in the vehicle and carry my knife in. According to the law it is not a weapon, so I'm not doing anything illegal or wrong. If a teacher doesn't like it... tough. I'm not violating any law nor threatening anyone. And if anyone feels threatened over a fancy knife with a blue and sliver handle and purple backspacer, I'd say the problem is them, not the knife.
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Thank you for posting and sharing some common sense.I really ponder if is so common nowadays......

"Don't Tread on Me"

salmonkiller
 
jimh0220 said:
Maturity is following laws and rules. Calling someone who thinks doing so a 'sheeple' is idiocy. Are we clear?
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Not really. Keep in mind you are trying to generalize all states and they are all different. I don't care enough about you or your state to read up on your local laws but here with a CHP I can carry into public schools and most other places other than federal buildings county courthouses places like that. Even if I was to get caught carrying at say the local mall that has a No Weapons sign on the door the worst that can happen is they ask me to leave. If I refused then they could try to get me with misdemeanor trespassing worse case scenario. The comical part to me is you actually walk around with a cute little ankle knife with the mindset that it could be used as a weapon but then your calling all the rest of us idiots for ignoring the silly signs as we walk in with our tools for opening things and cutting food.
 
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jimh0220 said:
Really? Walk into an airport checkpoint, courthouse, etc, and publicly display the TOOL you carry. See how the jury feels about it.
Do the same with a hex key. See how many folks give a damn.

Hex key- tool.
Knife - weapon.

Denial will not win your court case.
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And that is one of many things seriously wrong with our society. One of the worst crimes in the history of the US was perpetrated with the help of utility knives, and yet most people think of them as tools. But carry a pocketknife longer than 2.49 inches and suddenly you're a hardened criminal, as if anyone actually gets in knife fights in public.

For fun, list your favorite smallish EDC knives & then measure their blade lengths. The main blade on a traditional stockman or SAK is longer than 2.5" fercryinoutloud.
 
jimh0220 said:
Idiots break laws intentionally and choose to willingly disrespect the rules laid out be establishments. You have a better name for it? I do, but I would get popped by the mods for using them here.
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Although I think you came on a bit too strong, I do agree with some of what you are saying in this thread. And I agree with carrying a weapon for self-defense.

But here's the problem, you say that you obey the law, and you specifically say that you carry a knife as a weapon, and you have Washington posted as your location, I just checked Washington state's official website where all of their state laws can be found, and Washington state penal code 9.41.270 specifically and clearly states that it is illegal to carry a "knife" as a weapon. So technically, you are breaking state law.

I don't know what type of knife you are carrying concealed on your ankle, but Washington state penal code 9.41.250 says that it is illegal to carry concealed any "dirk or dagger". I couldn't find any definition in the Washington penal code for "dirk" or "dagger", and that leaves the definition open to a prosecutors interpretation. So carrying any fixed-blade in a concealed manner could prove risky. I know that here in California ALL fixed-blades are considered "dirks" and "daggers" under the law.

Washington state law also says that if you are convicted of 9.41.270 (carrying a knife as a weapon) that you will lose your right to carry a firearm.

You might not want to call people "idiots" for intentionally breaking the law if you yourself are intentionally breaking the law.
 
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[video=youtube;QcE5aDTszrY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QcE5aDTszrY[/video]
Please ask the sheep if a knife is a weapon or a tool.....
 
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In my home state a properly posted sign prohibiting firearms is backed by the law, so it negates the handgun carry permit. There's no law regarding posting a "no knives" or "no weapons" sign, so it's not illegal to carry a knife past the sign. The owner of the premises can ask you to leave, of course, and if you refuse you can be arrested for criminal trespass.

There's only one place I occasionally go that has a sign showing both a pistol and a fixed blade knife silhouette with the circle/slash symbol. There is no wording to go along with it. Now that probably does apply to handgun permit holders, since the "gunbuster" circle/slash sign is considered sufficient. Since the "knifebuster" sign is not described in the law, and they have no wording on the sign to clarify it, I have to assume that they don't want me carrying fixed blade hunting knives past the sign, which is what the image is of. I carry traditional style slipjoint folding knives which look nothing like their symbol, so I assume they are not talking about my knife.

Similarly, signs that say "No weapons" don't apply to my knives, because none of them fit the legal definition of a knife as weapon in my state.

Of course I am referring to private business establishments that choose to post these signs. Any place where there is a law specifically prohibiting carry of knives, or where you are subject to a search / metal scan, then I just don't carry anything to those places.
 
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A few things. First, a knife can be a weapon, it can also not be. The determining factors are intent and the knife in question. Obviously a 4" auto is a weapon, but most juries would have to be insane to call a SAK a weapon. Many people view knives under 3" as less threatening, especially if the the person holding it isn't imposing.

Second, do not lump all rule breakers and law breakers together. Most of the people here are smart enough to not carry a knife in an area that it is illegal. When it is against the rules but not illegal not many people care. I don't care about stupid rule I had no hand in, but laws are different. Also, it is insanely close minded to hunk that all laws are equal. A knife in a restricted zone that never leaves the pocket IS NOT AND NEVER SHOULD BE CONSIDERED equal to doing drugs or anything that will land you in prison. You basically said my EDC in the post office is the same as me smoking crack, and that is a plainly stupid assumption.

Lastly, in before the lock, move, or stern warning from a mod. This is general, not W&C, let's stop the attacks, insults, and general rudeness.
 
I've never seen any of those signs forbid a chainsaw, hell I'd be more afraid of a guy with a chainsaw wandering around the school or courthouse than a father whose there to pick up his kid after band...
 
Funny thing is that I go to the Post Office a couple of times a week and I guarantee I'm carrying at least one in to ship and receiving at least one I'm carrying out. And honestly I don't even give a thought to the one in my pocket. There aren't any signs to remind me so I sort of space things like that.
Monday though I'm checking into the V.A. hospital for surgery and will be in for a week. There are signs there and I don't carry anything while on their property. :( Maybe I'll get some more pictures loaded....
 
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