Norfleet Restitution ?

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I dont have any knowledge of said maker other than what i have read here.
But I have to say from a busines point of view this is a bad idea.

If you cant get your self together and provide customers with the one thing your company is for then frankly you need to do something else to bay the bills.
We can help him a thousand times but if he cant do it once, twice or how ever many times this has gone on help is clearly of little use.

I wish "Norfleet" all the best now, and in the future but the buck has to stop with him.
This is totaly his responsibility and no one elses.
 
he is using his handicap as an excuse to serve his own ends.
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I don't get the feeling he is using his handicap in that manner. ( if that is what it is , I can't say he is handicapped , as he sure makes a dam good knife , perhaps disabled or limited mobility is better way of putting it ).

Sounds more like someone with a poor set of business skills. Learning to make the product is just 1/2 the challenge , keeping up with orders , staying on schedule when life happens ( a huge challenge itself ) and being in constant touch with customers who are expecting delivery months back is key.

Sometimes life , or the struggle to live , gets in the way. It is hard to admit when you are in over your head , perhaps this is the problem for Mr. Norfleet , life's struggles are making it hard for him to keep his head above water so to speak. Judging by the update posted on his website , but not on BF , could very well indicate that his pride has been hurt , he is not wanting to admit his shortcomings , and these may very well be ( to a point ) out of his control.

Gil , we all screw up.
Get in here and lay it all out , tell the folks and the buyers , exactly what the deal is , what you can do to make it right and what you can't do at this point. Open those communication lines , be honest and start a plan of resolution.
 
Both he and his customers have my sympathies, but offering to bail someone out of their mistakes isn't a recipe for success. If he can't run the business side of things, then he isn't prepared for the business of knife making.

The only road for him to take is to hit the brakes on everything except knives that people have already paid for, and then stop taking orders for at least quite a while and only sell them as he makes them.

My father is a small business man, and has a successful business. This is because he's good at what he does and is realistic with numbers. If he sucked or couldn't run it, it would go under. No one would come to bail him out. This is why the airlines suck, they are allowed to run things horribly and don't have to improve since they keep getting freebies to maintain the status quo. :thumbdn:
 
This idea is not entirely a "bail him out" idea

It is more for heading off similar problems like this in the future
If something like this were in place,Norfleet would only have 2 guys out & he'd be shut down

I'm not talking here about Norfleet in particular,rather all of us buyers & sellers alike,being kept "in check" by an advanced program

$1 a man,no more "free" members


Another thing I've noticed,the amount of posts,time & effort put into,"who did what to who",if this were channeled into making it so it could not happen again(constructive),in the future,or at least limited as to how much bad doing could be done

Again,only ideas,I'm not for bailing any one person out,but rules associated with a plan like this would limit the BS

-Vince
 
Sorry..........but no thank you.
I'm gonna make a knife someday, will someone send me some money???
If you want it out of damascus, send that too.
And I could use a good belt grinder, my files are dull.
I hope all of you respond, cause I have my eye on this cute Filipino girl and need the money.

Leadfoot
 
Leadfoot2 said:
Sorry..........but no thank you.
I'm gonna make a knife someday, will someone send me some money???
If you want it out of damascus, send that too.
And I could use a good belt grinder, my files are dull.
I hope all of you respond, cause I have my eye on this cute Filipino girl and need the money.

Leadfoot
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It is post like this ....

Please read from the beginning,leadfoot w/ 29 posts Who is sending anyone money ?

The people who get done wrong,including you,would be covered.Idiots will be weeded out of here automatically,all in one swoop
 
I agree with what JTW said, completely.

I also very much like the idea that James Todd has. I would support THAT.
 
Also,if you know anything about small business at all,Gibert is aready done

He has done a few too many moves to recoupe.I doubt everyone will ever get all their knives,it seems his tactics/problems have hit the wall

What I am talking of here will prevent this,or at least limit it,in the future

Otherwise you can all go about you business w/ the who did what to who system,witch never stops anything.

I dunno,it just seems too simple.
I would not want to be a knifemaker ,making items that are not necessities,in the economy today,and to have bad apples added into it only hurts these guys
 
Who is sending money.....just in the last month.
BradB
Superfluites
radmcg
Fiddlestick
Superfluites.......again
bkrosco
Tony_A
jstroke
datsgor
ksjumpmd

and one of the guys saw his knife for sale on ebay during all of this.

Leadfoot
 
Leadfoot,a plan like what I am talking about here,in this thread...
Your list of guys out the $$ would only be 2,or possibly three guys

Everyone alike,makers,sellers,dealers,buyers would be backed up,and the BF's Co,as well

This thread was not to start an argument,but just to show,that wrong doing like what was done with one here ,or in the past,or in the future,could have been limited,and or altogether eliminated While "suring up" the whole BF's community at the same time

The next maker that comes down the pike here with whatever intensions,will be limited as to how much damage he can do,through this site
-Vince
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
I don't get the feeling he is using his handicap in that manner. ( if that is what it is , I can't say he is handicapped , as he sure makes a dam good knife , perhaps disabled or limited mobility is better way of putting it ).

Sounds more like someone with a poor set of business skills. Learning to make the product is just 1/2 the challenge , keeping up with orders , staying on schedule when life happens ( a huge challenge itself ) and being in constant touch with customers who are expecting delivery months back is key.

Sometimes life , or the struggle to live , gets in the way. It is hard to admit when you are in over your head , perhaps this is the problem for Mr. Norfleet , life's struggles are making it hard for him to keep his head above water so to speak. Judging by the update posted on his website , but not on BF , could very well indicate that his pride has been hurt , he is not wanting to admit his shortcomings , and these may very well be ( to a point ) out of his control.

Gil , we all screw up.
Get in here and lay it all out , tell the folks and the buyers , exactly what the deal is , what you can do to make it right and what you can't do at this point. Open those communication lines , be honest and start a plan of resolution.
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+1 & Amen ............

Norfleet.......... it ain't going away, come on and do lay it out. Most people are very forgiving and a good honest answer goes a real long way. Whatever that answer is.

As JTW Jr. so aptly said......... "we all screw up" .......:)

Just don't let it continue and get bigger than it already is........ please............:)
 
How would this be administered? Who would be responsible for running this system? If it is run through Bladeforums, then it would ultimately come down to Spark being responsible for everything. He could be opening himself up to possible severe legal repercussions.

The amount of work it would take to set something like this up would be immense. If not done on a total volunteer basis, it would cost a great deal as well. I also doubt that Spark would want to require people to pay for a membership to fund something like this. Forcing people to pay to be able to participate is a sure way to reduce membership.
 
I recently became a gold member. I have no problem funding a site that needs server, bandwidth, etc to run.

I do have a problem with bailing out someone who *seems* to screw over people. I say *seems* because Gilbert I'm sure has seen this post or others like it and refuses to respond. That is totally in bad taste. I can't believe he is allowed to post in the "for sale" threads. Way too many members here have gotten NO response to multiple emails from the man. I understand life happens and he has medical problems, but if he can post here, his computer and internet is working and his time would be better suited dealing with the customers who have sent him their hard earned money. I think its safe to say the "knife went out yesterday", "just finishing up the sheath", and "had to get a scan" excuses have run their course.

I don't know what legal options are open to members with him in TN and most of the buyers probably elsewhere.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
How would this be administered? Who would be responsible for running this system? If it is run through Bladeforums, then it would ultimately come down to Spark being responsible for everything. He could be opening himself up to possible severe legal repercussions.

The amount of work it would take to set something like this up would be immense. If not done on a total volunteer basis, it would cost a great deal as well. I also doubt that Spark would want to require people to pay for a membership to fund something like this. Forcing people to pay to be able to participate is a sure way to reduce membership.
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Keith,You are absolutely right. As I reread & thought about it,this "perfect world " plan,is too much to ask

It comes right down to everyone doing their homework (as buyers)& being honest,is the easiest way

I hope Norfleet gets it worked out,best wishes for him
I hope in the future,BF's is still a great place for new & upcoming knifemakers,to show & sell their knives
I know of a few now,who have long wait lists,impeccable work,and no longer need to sell on BF's,but at one time,did
-Vince
 
VCM3, like others have said, your heart is is the right place.
I dont' see how financing new knife makers is morally or financially sound.
Because that is what you are doing if you bail them out from thier responsibility.

Now that I have 31 post, am I any more valuable in my opinion????

Leadfoot
 
Leadfoot2 said:
VCM3, like others have said, your heart is is the right place.
I dont' see how financing new knife makers is morally or financially sound.
Because that is what you are doing if you bail them out from thier responsibility.

Now that I have 31 post, am I any more valuable in my opinion????

Leadfoot
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Leadfoot,point taken & your opinion is as good as any

But what I was speaking of,was not to "bail out" any one particular maker ,seller,dealer or buyer,but to regulate the potential of wrong doing to others

A bit different,than financing someone
 
Another idea , would be an addition to the wall of shame , perhaps a " Wall of concern ".

With listed makers who have a similar past as Mr Norfleet. Where they eventually deliver ( in some cases.) but have a jaded past history of follow thru , So that buyers can be aware.

Perhaps a stuck thread , where nobody can reply , but have the names and links to relevant threads updated by a mod when needed. And if a maker who is on the concern list makes good and changes for the better , then have it be noted nex to this name.

Just an idea.
 
JTW A good idea,and again,the point of this thread,not to sit & type "look what WAS done" but instead,somehow someway try to head it off,in the future

I'm sure,the list of guys leadfoot posted that are out $$/knives,could or may be less perhaps,if there were a better "keep in check" system

It seems to me,a good & much needed thread on this topic/matter
 
sunnyd said:
Vince,

I will in the interest of fair play ask 1 simple question that I would like to know the answer to:

I realize he has done this for years now, but has he ever behaved honorably here in regard to selling knives that he advertised ready to ship and actually shipped them, or has this been the story from the start?
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Anbody?
 
sunnyd,when you say,"he has done this,for years" are you talking about making knives,or,wrong doing ?
 
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