Now a warning to the folks

chadridv said:
ok i need to respond point by point here.

you're right... you don't know me. In fact you could have a number of successful deals with members here on BF and still not really know them. However, when you get involved in a deal with someone, right off the bat, check their feedback. See how long they've been a member. See how many posts they have. If you are suspicious, or even just to be safe, search their name in the GB&U forum. There are many very good ways to detect what type of person you're getting involved with.

[second, just to be clear, I am not the author of the original sales thread. He happens to be a very good friend of mine, and I told him straight up that i think he should leave the option to add 4% for the fees or pay by "gift". Either way, I have never personally made a sales thread anywhere requiring the buyer pay with PP personal. That is not how i do it. My sales threads read exactly as such...
"PLease use PP "gift" or add 4%"]

Third, I appreciate that you are taking us through the thought process of potential buyers, but I am having a hard time differentiating what is your thought process and what is the generalization. Either way, i will comment by saying; if you see me leaving the option to use PP "gift" as me screwing over PP, fine. That's your opinion. PP has screwed me over plenty of times as well, that's my opinion. If you consider it a red flag to offer a buyer "personal" options you should red flag half the sellers here on BF.

Lastly, I still consider myself the driving force of creating this thread. I have said everything i need to say regarding the PP "gift" debate. I will say one last time, that my original intent was to discuss what i considered to be in inappropriate and unruly post left in someone's sales thread. My intention was never to debate the PP terms of a private sale.

I will end by saying this. Last night i read the longest thread i've ever seen. It was 35 pages maybe. This is a 2 page thread! if you want to comment in it, please take take the time to read through it all, because we are falling into a heavy pattern of redundancy.

Questions have been answered. Opinions have been stated. Apologies have been made! It's only two pages. We can all save so much wasted time, if both pages are just scanned through.
(btw-this last paragraph is not directed towards you EMT-Lee, it is just a general statement)
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As your membership is Basic and at least a Gold is required to sell on BF, I assume these sales occur elsewhere.
 
ONeill said:
It is also against there rules to ask for a surcharge on a pay-pal payment . Is this not then an attempt to defraud a business ?
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If a seller asks for a 3-4% surcharge, Paypal is still getting their cut, they are simply getting it from the buyer, not the seller.
 
Gatogordo said:
I've said it before, but it is absolutely amazing how small the amount of money for which some people will sell their integrity. Honor is not something you can put on and take off like a used shirt. You've either got it or you don't.
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Yeah. There was some confusion when the gift option came out, and some contradictory interpretations from people here.

But by now we should know. Pay the fee.
 
EMT_Lee said:
Here's the thing: I don't know you. I won't know until -after- the deal if you're on the up-and-up. And, by asking me to strip myself of my buyer's protection (i.e. using the PP 'gift' option), you are sending up a red flag. Trying to cheat Paypal also sends up a red flag. If you're willing to screw paypal, you might be willing to screw me. This is the thought-process of people who refuse to do business with people who skirt Paypal's rules.
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So, if someone asks for payment by money order, they are unethical and unfit to do business with? :rolleyes:
 
hatidua said:
If a seller asks for a 3-4% surcharge, Paypal is still getting their cut, they are simply getting it from the buyer, not the seller.
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Absolutely. They are always getting it from the buyer, one way or another.

But what we recommend is simpler. Figure how much you want for your knife. Add in shipping cost. Add in Delivery Confirmation and Insurance. Add in a PayPal fee. Post the total as one amount that you want for your knife.
 
I've recently heard that paypal has come down hard on other forums that facilitate sales and hassled the forum administrators for permitting sales that ask for gift or surcharges.

A specific one was a custom car parts forum (don't recall the name).

My guess is that it won't be long before bladeforums hits their radar.
 
Gatogordo said:
I am totally baffled and bewildered that some posters seem to think lying so they can steal 3% of the total owed is okay? I am equally totally baffled and bewildered why someone can't understand that the word "gift" means what it means, not "I'll lie and say that it is a gift when, in fact, it is a purchase so I can avoid paying the fees."

I've said it before, but it is absolutely amazing how small the amount of money for which some people will sell their integrity. Honor is not something you can put on and take off like a used shirt. You've either got it or you don't.
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Well you obviously played off my post, so i feel the need to respond. I'm sure your an Honorable man, never lie or steal, but my post was purely to try point out that if PP/Ebay lost money on the "gift option" it would not exist. Nothing more, nothing less.
Today I turn 57. I am happy to say, I have never used PayPal, will never use PayPal, and if someone insists, they lose a sale. It's simply a matter of principle with me.
Just sent Mr. Coombs a M.O. It's either that or a debit card.
 
Chief Engineer said:
Well you obviously played off my post, so i feel the need to respond. I'm sure your an Honorable man, never lie or steal, but my post was purely to try point out that if PP/Ebay lost money on the "gift option" it would not exist. Nothing more, nothing less.
Today I turn 57. I am happy to say, I have never used PayPal, will never use PayPal, and if someone insists, they lose a sale. It's simply a matter of principle with me.
Just sent Mr. Coombs a M.O. It's either that or a debit card.
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Chief Engineer , something I just heard the other day from another maker I know . The gift option may well be an IRS. issue . As you know only so many $$ per year can be given as a gift before taxes are involved . I'm sure these gift payments are being reported .
 
It's highly unlikely to be an IRS issue since the current gift tax exclusion (that is the amount under which you owe no taxes on the gift) is $13,000 per year, that is each person may give another person up to $13,000 annually with no tax liability on either party, married people can double that amount. Someone would have to be buying expensive knives or lots of them to exceed that amount while using {aypal's gift exclusion. Possible but I think Paypal might smell a rat. It's also extremely unlikely that Paypal would be involved with any IRS reports since it is not a requirement that gift amounts be reported by an intermediate party.
 
Chief Engineer said:
Let me start by saying I fully understand what you are saying. I must say however, that I am totally baffled and bewildered, that many posters think a multi-billion dollar operation, offers a "gift option" out of the goodness of their hearts. People have got to understand, if it wasn't somehow to their benifit,(can you say tax write-off) it would not be offered. Many of their business practices may be considered suspect at best, but they are not stupid.
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You know, I wondered about that myself but somebody explained it to me that using the gift option with a credit card just shifts the fees to the sender rather than the recipient. So if you send somebody $100 then PP charges you $104. For senders who have the PP account linked to a bank account (like me) there isn't a fee for the gift option. So if I send money by gift the it would be cheating PP, but if somebody sends gift on the card then PP still gets paid.

That's how it was explained to me---don't know if that's true or not. Personally I didn't even know there WAS a gift option until a year or so ago when someone asked me to use it.
 
Los Angeles said:
I've recently heard that paypal has come down hard on other forums that facilitate sales and hassled the forum administrators for permitting sales that ask for gift or surcharges.

A specific one was a custom car parts forum (don't recall the name).

My guess is that it won't be long before bladeforums hits their radar.
Click to expand...

On jdevils forum its a straight up no no!
 
chadridv said:
ok i need to respond point by point here.

you're right... you don't know me. In fact you could have a number of successful deals with members here on BF and still not really know them. However, when you get involved in a deal with someone, right off the bat, check their feedback. See how long they've been a member. See how many posts they have. If you are suspicious, or even just to be safe, search their name in the GB&U forum. There are many very good ways to detect what type of person you're getting involved with.

second, just to be clear, I am not the author of the original sales thread. He happens to be a very good friend of mine, and I told him straight up that i think he should leave the option to add 4% for the fees or pay by "gift". Either way, I have never personally made a sales thread anywhere requiring the buyer pay with PP personal. That is not how i do it. My sales threads read exactly as such...
"PLease use PP "gift" or add 4%"

Third, I appreciate that you are taking us through the thought process of potential buyers, but I am having a hard time differentiating what is your thought process and what is the generalization. Either way, i will comment by saying; if you see me leaving the option to use PP "gift" as me screwing over PP, fine. That's your opinion. PP has screwed me over plenty of times as well, that's my opinion. If you consider it a red flag to offer a buyer "personal" options you should red flag half the sellers here on BF.

Lastly, I still consider myself the driving force of creating this thread. I have said everything i need to say regarding the PP "gift" debate. I will say one last time, that my original intent was to discuss what i considered to be in inappropriate and unruly post left in someone's sales thread. My intention was never to debate the PP terms of a private sale.

I will end by saying this. Last night i read the longest thread i've ever seen. It was 35 pages maybe. This is a 2 page thread! if you want to comment in it, please take take the time to read through it all, because we are falling into a heavy pattern of redundancy.

Questions have been answered. Opinions have been stated. Apologies have been made! It's only two pages. We can all save so much wasted time, if both pages are just scanned through.
(btw-this last paragraph is not directed towards you EMT-Lee, it is just a general statement)
Click to expand...

Well, you can read the responses in this thread, and I think you'll see it's not just -my- thought process. Cheating paypal because you feel like they've cheated you, doesn't make that any better to me. At this point, we've even had a Super Mod say the words "Pay the fees." So... what else do you want to hear? And, yes. That means I do not deal with several seller's here. And, that's fine with me. There are a lot of knives out there... :)
 
EMT_Lee said:
At this point, we've even had a Super Mod say the words "Pay the fees." So... what else do you want to hear?
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I want to hear more about the super mod saying "pay the fees". Are you saying there is now a bladeforums exchange rule that requires standard paypal methods among sales?
 
JackHammer said:
As your membership is Basic and at least a Gold is required to sell on BF, I assume these sales occur elsewhere.
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I just recently renewed my gold membership, before it's expiration, so I'm not basic. So your assumption is wrong, I sell plenty here.
 
chadridv said:
I want to hear more about the super mod saying "pay the fees". Are you saying there is now a bladeforums exchange rule that requires standard paypal methods among sales?
Click to expand...

Esav Benyamin said:
Yeah. There was some confusion when the gift option came out, and some contradictory interpretations from people here.

But by now we should know. Pay the fee.
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There you go. It's not a BF rule, just looks like good advice. Anything else?
 
chadridv said:
No nothing else, just the rule clarification, but thank you for asking.
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Chad , you are confusing me here . You are asking for rule clarification , why does this matter to you ? PP rules don't seem to matter to you . Just a difference in your point of view of rules I am noticing , so it is confusing me .
 
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