off topic.. shtf question..

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Sep 7, 2016
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I try to stick to NATO calibers, theoretically, they should be easier to find ammo for if I am running low. In a survival situation, finding food would not be my priority with a FIREARM although it would be a useful tool... Bows, traps, snares, domestication etc would work for live animals. Other than that packaged food to the best of my ability is my plan for on the go or until shelter or a dominion can be established. My bug out bag has water, fire, food, fishing, and shelter for temporary scenarios ready to rock.

For a bugout get out of town SHTF my biggest concern is other bad guys trying to take my stash, for that I am going .308. I built a 6.2 lb AR-10 before optic and 8.8 lb with the optic. It has a Vortex 2.5-10 FFP Illuminated MOA reticle with 18" match barrel and tuneable gas block which creates less felt recoil than a carbine length gas system in 5.56. The scope is not as quick as a T-1 but it will do the job. I have it "DOPE'D" out to 1K for 175 SMK and 168 SMK and I have it to 400 for 147 Ball (all Yards don't quite have the length for meters where I shoot).

I like my guns in pairs or sets. The best replacement parts are WHOLE other guns. I usually like to pair weapons for different scenairos. Like CCQB and long range pair of rifles in the same caliber, or a Long Range bolt with a high capacity sidearm for a lighter set up. It just depends on where and when :)

If I am in a peaceful survival situation with no one gunning for me, hands down a Ruger 10/22.
 
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I'd keep the gun at home or my bug out location and either take my compound bow or my crossbow. A lot more silenced, very deadly, reuse arrows. Or in case of emergency you could make some.


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A lot of talk about carrying multiple guns...... Man..... That's fine if your sticking to home. But in a situation when you're on the road, not so much. You've got to be a realist and think of weight.

Love the 308 and such .... Fine for a day out hunting. Not so much on a multiple day/ weeks(?) bug out...... Especially if your talking about more than one long gun😧
 

Busto

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Keep it simple...keep it deadly at close range. Large caliber is for large game hunting during season. SHTF survival ain't trophy hunting or is it??
 
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I know this is a fun for thought thread but you have to ask what is going on in the world to be in this situation?? Did SHTF or are we LIVING off of the land??? IF SHTF, I need a large caliber rifle capable of keeping myself and my party ALIVE. Moving only at dusk, dawn and night to avoid any threatening engagements, if done correctly ZERO rounds are fired. A party of two men in reasonable health should be able to carry 100-150 lb of gear each with a proper load out. It would be relatively easy for that to include 3 rifles and two sidearms and anywhere from 300-800 rounds rifle rounds. (two semi's one long range bolt all same caliber would be my top choice). The intent here for myself is the ability to engage targets effectively and with lethality out to 1k with the goal of reaching a safe place.

If we are playing the game, and one rifle and one rifle only for eternity, I would still have to go with my AR-10 and find ammo as needed.

For me, food can be procured in other ways then firing a rifle and telling everyone where I am if I don't have a can. Its harder to do if I only fire 1 shot but still that's one less round I now have when a spear or trap can be placed.

For myself, I have a plan in place on where to go and multiple ways to get there with all ammo calibers cached at said destination.

If its strictly survival living off the land, I will be carrying around the most weight in BOOKS than anything else, and in that scenario, I would def be using a .22 lr too :)
 
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I know this is a fun for thought thread but you have to ask what is going on in the world to be in this situation?? Did SHTF or are we LIVING off of the land??? IF SHTF, I need a large caliber rifle capable of keeping myself and my party ALIVE. Moving only at dusk, dawn and night to avoid any threatening engagements, if done correctly ZERO rounds are fired. A party of two men in reasonable health should be able to carry 100-150 lb of gear each with a proper load out. It would be relatively easy for that to include 3 rifles and two sidearms and anywhere from 300-800 rounds rifle rounds. (two semi's one long range bolt all same caliber would be my top choice). The intent here for myself is the ability to engage targets effectively and with lethality out to 1k with the goal of reaching a safe place.

If we are playing the game, and one rifle and one rifle only for eternity, I would still have to go with my AR-10 and find ammo as needed.

For me, food can be procured in other ways then firing a rifle and telling everyone where I am if I don't have a can. Its harder to do if I only fire 1 shot but still that's one less round I now have when a spear or trap can be placed.

For myself, I have a plan in place on where to go and multiple ways to get there with all ammo calibers cached at said destination.

If its strictly survival living off the land, I will be carrying around the most weight in BOOKS than anything else, and in that scenario, I would def be using a .22 lr too :)

If you are carrying 100-150 lbs of gear over a trek, you are in better shape than me! Even as an infantryman in the Marine Corps I did t carry that much weight with a full combat load and ruck! If you plan on carrying that much, you need one of those collapsable wagons to tow

2c9869d73df54ddae24e9b339af4da54.jpg



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In the infantry, you would or could carry some heavy packs, possibly upwards of 80-100 lb, Not really past 100-150 because there was not a NEED to. You have supply convoys and a platoon or squad to all carry an equal amount of gear and you SHARED amongst each other when needed for the foreseeable future. HAD a situation require you to carry that more gear you would have because a successful soldier does what needs to be done to complete the mission and come back alive. If the Corp or Army would have asked you to carry more to save your brothers you would have given your all to do so.

In a SHTF scenario, your life is on the line and you either do or die, sink or swim. Obviously take what you can, but I promise when you think you can't carry more you can! Your life is on the line and you need to muster every ounce of knowledge, strength, and ingenuity to make it happen. If you noticed I said proper load out, that can vary, but however, you effectively carry the minimum gear you need to survive and thrive needs to get done. Even if it is with that purdy blue wagon in the picture. Two grown men in reasonable health and fitness can carry 200-300 lb between the two in most scenarios even uphill in the snow both ways without food. I've seen it happen.

Take breaks, kill one fill one, cover and darkness, one foot in front of the other. I would rather take 5 times as long to get where I am going and have all the gear I need then to get there 10 times faster and not have the bare essentials for survival. All mentalities are different. If I had my way I would have bobbed deuce and a half that runs on all fuel.... One day hopefully :)

I'm not saying we are all in bad or good shape etc or that I am in better shape than anyone, I'm just of the opinion: where this is a will there is a way. Get creative if need be, this is survival and not a hike in the woods.

Sorry for the long post lol, I have had some experience with this stuff :)
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
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I'm going with a .22 lr too. I can easily carry a few thousand rounds with me and darn near every house in America will have a closet with box or two laying around on a shelf.
 

unwisefool

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What's a bobbed deuce and a half?

Nevermind, Google is my friend!

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I particularly like the advantages of the tubular magazine. Less likely to come out of the gun and get lost and it has a significant capacity.



Dave,

I bought one just last week after doing a bunch of research. While the PCP models are sexy, pressurizing them is a PITA. Bear in mind that the sky is the limit with these things. I just wanted a modern air rifle to supplement my old Red Ryder for plinking fun so I went with an inexpensive choice: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beeman-Dual-Caliber-Air-Rifle-with-Scope/16686245

Although this shows up as not available, my local stores had about a half dozen, on sale for ~$80.

One thing that I like about the new technology is the use of a gas piston instead of a metal spring. It still thumps around but the "twangy" noise is no longer an issue. Supposedly, it lasts longer too.

Thanks Rick,
I think in a SHTF situation I'd want some sort of peep/ghost ring sight in place of an optic. (saves weight and is fool proof).
more research needed for sure finding the right combo.
 

tinfoil hat timmy

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Aug 21, 2014
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10,501
Probably my lever action .22. Highest mag capcity I own and ammo is light enough to carry a lot in a small space. Sub-sonics for stealth game hunting, will take down most game, and should it come to it, would be a sufficient deterrent to anyone who had ill intentions towards me and mine.

I do dig the subsonic and other specialty loads in .22 lr
 

AZTimT

The Stripetition Finish Guy
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Oct 15, 2009
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4,450
I keep seeing a similar train of thought here that seems suspect. I completely get the lightweight factor, but some things might be considered about the compromise made in a time where compromise kills. SHTF on the internet is no where near the same as SHTF in the real world. This is always a fun topic to hypothetically ponder, but not so fun to actually live through where mistakes are very costly.

The downside of rimfire cartridges is the reliability when exposed for any length of time to real world elements like dust, dirt, mud, rain, snow, or SWEAT, they don't always go bang when the trigger is squeezed. Yes they are light enough to carry plenty of extras, but what if that shot was the one that was going to save you or someone around you? Also, if you have to shoot the target multiple times to achieve the required/desired result, how much weight are you really saving? There is a reason no military uses rimfire to survive the SHTF duties that combat environments create. Sure, I plan to carry a .22, but not the one y'all keep mentioning. I've played with a lot of different rounds, but I have found the one that does all I will ever need short of a longer than I can see sniper type shot.

That is why I prefer 5.45 as a .22 centerfire that packs a lot more punch yet is still light enough to carry in decent quantity. It is similar in size to .223 but is much more effective in my real world usage thus far. While .223 is a "nice" short & blunt round, 5.45 is a "nasty" long & sharp round with better penetration through wooded areas and the ability to tumble when hitting large bones, effectively turning a .220" bullet into over a 1" wound channel in larger targets.

This shot is of a commercial 55 grain .223 soft point bullet loaded into a 5.45 case on the left, with a 60 grain commercial 5.45 FMJ on the right. Knowing what we know about knife edge performance and geometry, which one of these will be the better slicer? ;) I've tried both, so I know the answer.
4zuk2q.jpg


On top of that, a sealed 1080 round surplus tin full of environment resistant sealed neck & primer rounds only weighs 33lbs and is very easy to open with a Busse. This ammo was so practical for SHTF that it was banned from importation a few years back. Thankfully there are similar commercial sealed options being offered now for around 23 cents per round in the steel cases that you don't worry about reloading and can pick up quickly with a magnet.
b80chz.jpg


If at least one other person with you has a rifle chambered for the same round, you can share your loadout so you each have 500+ rounds that will reach out to 500 meters effectively. For rifle options you can pick from an AK, AR, XCR-L or some oddball single shot hunting rifles out there that are chambered in 5.45x39mm, though I prefer an AK for it's simplicity & reliability with low maintenance, just like INFI. Yes, it's an uncommon cartridge in the US, but if you can not survive 6 months to a year on 500 rounds, you weren't going to anyhow. One shot, one kill per day to feed yourself is only 365 rounds for a year and that is still way more noise broadcasting AND HUNTING than is necessary. If you are killing that many animals, they are either really small and plentiful, or you are covering a lot of new ground. Keep in mind, people survived the 1800's settling the western US with rarely more than 100 rounds per family and they had people trying to kill them way more often than we do along with way more wild animals to be wary of. Of course, they also did it without electricity, or petroleum fueled machines, or luxuriously soft furniture, or comfortable long lasting footwear/clothing. Plus, if the situation is bad enough to need more ammo, you are going to have to resupply and/or change weapons down the road anyhow. That's why we buy a Busse to get us through the whole ordeal to begin with, to keep THE knife and use whatever boomstick will do the job. :D

Edit: What I setup for the wife
2wdrjh3.jpg
 
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Apr 30, 2016
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So a bit about me, I don't like moderation and I'm not real big on compromise :D
I present to the court of public opinion exhibit A...
 
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Sep 7, 2016
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I like your pic! I dont have a good one of any of my knives and I don't have any cans yet because I move too much and never know the next stop :/ I like nice toys too!!!
 
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Apr 30, 2016
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Thanks Freehouse! My M1a's are a tie for the Knight's spot ;) I am waiting on SBR'ing a couple guns for the same moving around reason. The cans are pretty easy as long as you can be in one place long enough for the stamp to clear :)
 
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