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"Old Knives"

This belonged to my wife's Grandfather, Schrade Walden 294 from the early 1960's, I cleaned it up a few weekends ago and I've been carrying it off-and-on since.

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wlfryjr said:
The question is, who put Challenge's jigged bone handles on Duncan's harness jack?
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Hey there Lyle

My post is purely observations, my post is my thinking out aloud, how amazing CT's Knife Companies that sport many-a very famous Cutlery name, and it's just so fascinating with Empire's private Brand Contracts it makes me even more astonished that Charlie had managed to build such an amazing Empire collection - the Major percentage of us will never know just what it takes to do such a thing - personally these things I hope are documented for all today and the future to admire and learn from.Trying to obtain the best examples of an Elusive name from 100 years ago - one shakes their head in the enormity of such a task, well I do anyway, as I know just how much it has taken for me to get to obtain my knives and little knowledge ( as you can see ) to be only a fraction in comparison to many others of this amazing part of the World.
This goes to say the very same of an even more of an Elusive Pattern- the Farmers Jack- and what you have done for that pattern to be reborn again Lyle, what you must have been through to have possibly one of the Worlds greatest representations of the Farmers Jack.

I think I have mentioned before that the amount of time- the research, the frustration- knowing in your heart that this knife in front of you is this manufacturer- and then you find its not but that manufacturer, the buying of knives to be able to have them in front of you to handle them, to look at the knife in a way that you never would have 10 to 15 years ago .............. the disappointment - Oh boy...who hasnt had that?...the heart break of some dirt bag changing a knife or lying to make money and the pain of knowing you fell for it....... no one said this was an easy thing to get into and certainly a never ending twisting winding road that has exciting pockets of information and wonderful Knives lie in waiting - just waiting for you to discover - if you want to put in the work, I haven't committed anywhere near the time with this that I have wanted to.

Getting back to your question Lyle, can I put forward my thoughts?..... I admire your Knowledge and realize that I am leaving myself open by putting forward my thoughts.

1, There is a chance that Challenge made all these HJ's - including Empire's HJ's involved in this discussion - and the chance that made the Townley HJ - with an Empire Punch, and that Challenge had the expense of the tooling to make Stampings of the Private Contract Customers name, although in those days Labour was cheap and not very expensive like it is today, but still I understand that Stamps were not available at a flick of a Finger?

2, There is a chance that Empire made these HJ's - all them that we have just previously discussed, assembled these Knives to the degree where the tooling was already done by Empire, the stamping of the Blades - everything - assembled to the near finished state where just the Handles to be pinned - delivered by the Box fulls to Challenge, therefore leaving an opening for variants of the Knife for Challenge to have a different angle in the Market with the same Knife but with their take on Handle Materials and Shields? I think this should be considered, and if this was to be? would answer a lot of questions.

I am sure this has been done before- especially in Sheffield - where of course a lot of the Cutlers in the time of these great Companies from Sheffield came into the early American Cutler scene, I just cant see Challenge making an exact duplicate of a Empire Knife, size, Bolsters, Blades, pin locations - liners - Everything the exact thicknesses ......just everything Carbon Copied with a Punch that was supplied and made by Empire ? who knows.



Again friends - me poking the fire - exploring, and welcoming such discussions.
 
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I'm not disputing Duncan's or Charlie's observations, by no means, because they have the knowledge of these harness jacks. I hesitated several times about how to phrase my thoughts.

All I know about the subject is the bone on the Challenge is typical Challenge, not typical Empire. Other than that I am very curious and looking for answers, handles are fascinating, and one of if not, my favorite conversations about knives.
 
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One thing to consider is, who/where the bone was made. The proper way to make a knife has generally been to install the bone handles on the outer scales before assembly.
The source of the bone handles could be the key to answering many of the contracting questions.
"Make me 10,000 HJs, and we'll supply the bone handles" is a possible and practical explanation to keeping Challenge's handles uniform in appearance.
Oh to have the factory files from these companies!!
 
Lyle, Charlie Thank You both.

Lyle my friend, I hope I didn’t leave you with the thought that you were disputing anything I said- certainly not and Im glad you have come in on the discussion
:thumbsup: :), but I must be honest ( as if you couldn’t tell by now :( ) my knowledge about HJ’s is nill- but I’m trying to learn about them.

I 100% agree with what you say about the Bone Jigging with the Challenges.

Charlie- Thank You for the correction with the build of the knives- so that puts that one out the Window! What better way to learn- to put forward these things so they can be dissected.
What you say about Challenge Knives supplying Handles is a very practical explanation.

I wonder if someone somewhere have these old papers- or were they discarded without the knowing- most likely the later.
 
I came across a Lenox Cutlery Co. knife about five years ago. It was my first 100 year old knife, and it kindled my interest in old but usable relics. I posted questions and got lots of input from knowledgeable members here.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/lenox-cutlery-co-germany.1137572/

Now I have another Lenox. A four blade mother-of-pearl equal end.
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It's not in bad shape, considering years of use. :):thumbsup:
 
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Misplaced Hillbilly said:
r8shell r8shell
There's just something special about using a knife with a century of history behind it:thumbsup: Very cool Lenox, another brand I knew nothing about until your post, so thanks for that:)
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Thank you, I knew nothing about the brand either, until I found one on a table of old knives at a gun show. It was hiding in a pile of Kutmasters. :D

That's a part of the hobby that I really enjoy: coming across an obscure brand, and posting it here to learn about its history.
 
r8shell said:
Thank you, I knew nothing about the brand either, until I found one on a table of old knives at a gun show. It was hiding in a pile of Kutmasters. :D

That's a part of the hobby that I really enjoy: coming across an obscure brand, and posting it here to learn about its history.
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That's how I learned about Richard's of Sheffield. Found a 1952 Coronation Souvenir with Queen Elizabeth II on it at a local gun show. Jack learned me 'bout it.
 
Campbellclanman said:
You can beat old Ebony - Cool Old Knives R8shell !
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Thanks! Ebony Jacks are the Platonic Ideal of pocketknives.
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Prester John said:
That's how I learned about Richard's of Sheffield. Found a 1952 Coronation Souvenir with Queen Elizabeth II on it at a local gun show. Jack learned me 'bout it.
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I complain about "social media" because I am a curmudgeon, but I have to admit it's wonderful to be able to make friends and learn from people all around the world. :thumbsup:
 
That was meant to say "You Can't beat Old Ebony R8shell- sorry about the typo!
What a great line-up of Ebony Beauties!You have some very good names in that Line-up!
 
That shows good taste Rachel, at least in my opinion. Elegance in simplicity is the epitome of taste in whatever.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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