On-line class Edge re-profile/convex your Busse.

[mikeymoto]

Feel free to PM if the comment was aimed at me.
I have a HF belt grinder and considered using that for the flats but I haven't flat-ground with it before and I really don't want to mess up my blender warden.

 

[Tony G]

Yes, so now you know the secret..(prolly did before) it is not rocket science. If you go to burr on both sides and work your way up through a few grits always working to a burr then switch quickly to sandpaper for literally just a few mins work your knife WILL be sharp. With practice it will become crazy sharp.

The entire key to this is getting the bevel set right on your xxcourse stone.

WOOT!

I was wondering.... I do go to burr with the stones but not with the paper. Do you go to burr with the sandpaper as well?

 

[Justabuyer]

I was wondering.... I do go to burr with the stones but not with the paper. Do you go to burr with the sandpaper as well?

One of the things I like about sandpaper / convex finish work is for the most part it takes care of the wire edge for ya. Just cuts it right off as you go finer with the grits. Sometimes right before I go to final polish with 2000 grit or better I will cut into some hard plastic or wood a few times. when do the final edge polish. Seems to take care of the wire edge just fine!

 

[VoxHog]

Sharpened my first knife tonight and learned a new skill.

Here's my knife, pre-sharpening

Here's my sharpening setup. I put it all in a cookie sheet so that I wouldn't make a mess in the kitchen and have my wife beat me. I ended up moving the paper and putting the tray on some rubber pads so that it wouldn't slide around.

Here's the angle I was going for, 30 degrees

To help me learn the proper angle I folded a sheet to 15 degrees

And then aligned my knife so that I would know the angle to engage the knife on the stone

This actually helped a lot. Before I did this I was naturally sharpening at a really thick angle, probably more like 45 degrees. The spine of my knife ended up about 1/2 inch above the stone, with additional lifting near the tip, when I was at the proper angle.

The longest step is the initial reprofile with the X-Course stone, that probably took me about 10 minutes on each side. I could tell when it was time to move on because the strokes got really smooth. Here's how things looked in the middle of that step.

Something very interesting that you may see on the picture just above is that it took me awhile to actually get to the edge of the knife. A 15 degree bevel first cut above the edge, and worked its way down. I think (eyeballing the edge) that I may have originally had close to a 30 degree bevel on each side.

Here's my surface progression:
1. X-Coarse for about 10 minutes each side, pushing away from me edge first
2. Coarse for about 5 minutes on each side, pushing away from me edge first
3. 600 grit sandpaper on felt for about 2 minutes on each side, pulling towards me, spine first
4. 1500 grit sandpaper on leather for about 2 minutes on each side, pulling towards me, spine first
5. Rough leather for about 1 minutes on each side, pulling towards me, spine first
6. Smooth leather for about 1 minute on each side, pulling towards me, spine first

 

[VoxHog]

Here's how it looks now

My Scrapper 6 is much sharper now. I can smoothly and easily cut paper strips with no ripping. I can shave hair but have to work at it and it comes off slowly. I know I can get it sharper, but I'm not sure where to go from here.

Did I pull/push in the right directions?
Do you always go to a burr before switching grits when using the stones?
Do you always go to a burr before switching when using the sandpaper?
I wet both the stones and the sandpaper, is that right?
How do I get it even sharper?
Where do ceramic or steel rods come into play?

Was it a success? Very much so! It can get better, and I'm sure that will come in time. All in all, I'm a happy camper.

Two final images

 

[Tony G]

That was a good idea with the paper :thumbup: I would have thought 15 degrees (30 total) would have left a much bigger edge grind. Live and learn....

Nice job!

 

[VoxHog]

Thanks.

This Scrapper 6 has a full flat grind so I think that helped keep the bevel relatively small.

Something I forgot to say earlier is that I mic'd the bevel before and after...

Before = 0.08"
After = 0.11"

The bevel is almost 40% wider now, :thumbup: and very shiny!

 

[Justabuyer]

Near perfect process, I bet you went wrong when you went to the rough leather. I bet if you tested your knife was sharper before the rough leather.

I have all but given up stropping on leather...It is so easy to round the edge.

Another hint or two. Go back just to the 600 grit and go a bit longer there and really pay attention to the feel of the trailing edge stroke.

On purpose lower the spine a little to far to the sand paper until you feel the knife drag on the blade coating. This is your lower limit. Now slowly raise the spine until you just feel the edge start to drag it will feel rougher.

Practice staying just below the edge starting to catch. after a while you will have such a feel for this you will be able to work any point on the edge bevel you want. Want to thin behind the edge some...adjust your emphasis to that by dropping the spine just a little into the stone.

Go back through the sand paper grits SLOWLY and try to develop that FEEL.


When you get to point where you are ready to go back to the final grit (2000 ish) Take the blade and cut directly into some hard plastic or wood along the entire length of the blade 5 or 5 times. This will get rid of any residual wire edge. Then take your time and do the final polish with the finest grit. Never allow your self to raise the spine enough to feel that edge drag..just come as close to it as you can.

By the way that was a neet trick getting a handle on the first bevel angle. Cool.

 

[Justabuyer]

Did I pull/push in the right directions?
Do you always go to a burr before switching grits when using the stones?
Do you always go to a burr before switching when using the sandpaper?
I wet both the stones and the sandpaper, is that right?
How do I get it even sharper?
Where do ceramic or steel rods come into play?

1 Yes
2 Yes I use stones only for bevel reset.
3 Not always If I am reseting the bevel with sand paper 120, 180, 220 grit I will go for a burr. Other wise not so much.
4. WET IS GOOD
5 I do not use ceramic rods. Smooth steel rods can be used to re-align edges. but they are not part of the sharpening process.

 

[Justabuyer]

OH yeah VH I forgot...go test that edge some stuff to like chopping a little wood and cutting some veggies or fruit. I think you will be really amazed at how well convex edges cut.

 

[VoxHog]

On purpose lower the spine a little to far to the sand paper until you feel the knife drag on the blade coating. This is your lower limit. Now slowly raise the spine until you just feel the edge start to drag it will feel rougher.

That makes absolute sense and I completly missed that on my first run through. I'll try to refine my technique and focus on the feel at the edges.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

I think the angle on my warden will be about 10-15 degrees total.

It feels sharp after the stone, but I don't think I formed a complete burr.
Do you think it will be ok to progress to the Paper anyways?

 

[Justabuyer]

I think the angle on my warden will be about 10-15 degrees total.

It feels sharp after the stone, but I don't think I formed a complete burr.
Do you think it will be ok to progress to the Paper anyways?

Short answer....no. Longer answer is yes if you are willing to do it later with less aggressive media.

Rat at least with the smoother stone....make sure you can feel a burr form all the way from both directions before you move on. Other wise your knife will just be sorta sharp.

We don't like sorta sharp we are the 1 percenters. Look at VH he has a hair shaving edge and is not happy with it.... LOL

This gentlemen is why we are different and have such a hard time at social occasions.

 

[bambright]

How much force do we apply to stone? and How much for sand paper? My understanding is once we move to the finer the less force.

 

[Justabuyer]

How much force do we apply to stone? and How much for sand paper? My understanding is once we move to the finer the less force.

That depends. I admit to bearing down some on the course stones to hog that extra metal off. I go pretty light on the sand paper. Sorry I don't know how to quantify it better than that.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Ok, I got a burr on a coarse Diamond stone, and it is more smooth looking. Should I switch to sandpaper next? Or use a finer stone first? Does it make any difference?

 

[Justabuyer]

Ok, I got a burr on a coarse Diamond stone, and it is more smooth looking. Should I switch to sandpaper next? Or use a finer stone first? Does it make any difference?

Well post a picture. That way I can advise you.... Unless your lying about the burr. I bet you are... I bet the burr is not for the entire edge.

OK yeah If you went down to a course stone from a extra course stone and you ACTUALLY do have burr you may go to some sand paper. Start with a grit that is about the same as the last stone you used. A fine DMT is about 600. The course is 320 the xxcourse is 120 more or less.

lying about burrs is serious man. Serious.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Ok, figured out how to get a pic of the Burr. . . It is small, but the edge is very thin.

 

[Justabuyer]

OK I see the burr. Sorry I called you out man.

OK seriously though. From your picks out by the tip it looks like you have a lot of deep xxcourse stone scratches left on the bevel. Might want to stones those away before you go to sand paper.

Looking real good man. Your gonna FREAK out when you finally move to the sandpaper and this all comes together and that thing just gets crazy sharp almost instantly.

 

[007 Agent ZZero]

Just finished up my Rat Warden

I did exactly as you instructed JAB, except I began with a 200/600 waterstone instead of the XXcoarse dia-stone. The waterstone worked GREAT for such a small knife and bevel. I could definetly see this waterstone getting old on a larger blade like my BATACLE. The 200 grit cut quick and the slurry made a decent low grade polish on the edge. The 600 grit made quick work of the scratches and smoothed out the edge. Here are a few pics I took of the set-up and some of the progress. The edge bevel doubled in size from the reprofile. It started as 1/32" with little smoothing of the coating behind the bevel. At finish with the waterstone it was a hair over 1/16".

The set-up

Primary bevel intact

New primary bevel

Sandpaper set-up

Showing the "stage", took the USPS box that Bully shipped the warden in and covered it in brown plastic tape. Then taped down the paper w/ mousepad underneath CHEAP AND REALLY EFFECTIVE, and really easy to change grits

The secret weapon, .5 micron sandpaper!!!!!

For sandpaper grits I spent at least 5 min on each side with 600 wet/dry to take out all the scratches, and progressed to 1000 from there. Took about 10 mins to polish up the edge and from 1500 to the .5micron was a snap. The bit about developing touch/feel REALLY helped with the high grits. There is a vast amount of difference in sharpness when you work with the back of the bevel. I think all the times before I was working from the middle forward and rounding the edge. Not anymore