Opinions on folding knife blades being centered.

Blues Bender said:
Did you see this recent pic I took of my Umnumzaan? It looks pretty sweet right?

66AE9E90-3ACE-494E-8EA5-EECA8CBA338C_zpsvhlqxlct.jpg
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Yeah, it finally burned into my monitor years ago... :rolleyes:

Seriously, finding one that looked like that would be the only thing that might make me buy another one. One of the best looking ones I've seen--I like em well aged.
 
The REAL bottom line is when you come to the point where you decide to sell the knife. If it's centered, all other things being equal, you stand to have a much larger population of potential buyers vs. a knife that's not centered.
 
I guess when the maker can tell you some crap to justify it gets forgotten til you try and sell it.
 
DangCat said:
To clarify, I purchased the knife from a small time knife guy who was done selling knives, not directly from Medford. I griped about the knife. The knife is brand new. Amy Medford stated that the guy that was fired was not choosing parts correctly to alleviate fitment issues such as this. She said it was warranty and that's how we got here.
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Well that sort of changes a few things.....
 
EChoil said:
"Otherwise superb," huh? I wasn't aware there were 'otherwise's' in "superb." I still don't think there are. And I can tell you that NOT centered is a concrete indication of lacking craftsmanship in high-end knives.

So Cold Steel can do it but (Chris Reeve) or Spyderco can't and shouldn't be held to it for that kind of money?

Wrong--an un-centered blade DOES bear on the quality of a pricey folder. Ask most of the people here. You know that. And you say poor centering is only a flaw when it rubs the liner? C'mon Kwon.... I think you know better than all this.
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I believe I may have misspoke on my post.

I agree with what other posters have said here in that a very expensive knife should have perfect centering. My more expensive Spydercos certainly do. If I were to buy a Chris Reeve, I would expect it to for two reasons besides the cost: the first is the lauded tolerances of a Chris Reeve knife that I keep hearing about. The second is the boasting CRK themselves do about it. While my Super Blue Endura does not (it doesn't bother me because it's a working knife that doesn't try to be anything else), my Delica does. I don't recall but I'll go home and check the centering on my Griptilian as well. If I recall, it's slightly off center. My Ti Millie, Calypso, Cricket and Sage 1 are also perfectly centered. My PM2 and Tenacious are not.

The reason I think a more expensive knife should have perfect centering is that this is the sort of thing we tend to buy very expensive knives for rather than pure performance. Either way, for me personally, it doesn't bother me as long as the blade isn't slanted so much to one side that it rubs the liner or frame. This is because of my general taste in knives; even my fancier, dressier and more expensive knives are working blades, as I dislike the idea of paying top dollar for a knife just so it can sit in the Spyderpac.
 
Yea....

Tell us more about this "small time knife guy".
- I assume if he is small time, he most likely inspected the knife upon receipt (most larger resellers conduct inspection of high-ticket items, especially if it is made for discerning niche market...)
- Why didn't he fulfill his obligation as a merchant (assuming he was not some "dude" on the forum) and offer you a refund or be the facilitator in the warranty service?
- Are you sure he was selling a new knife? If he wasn't a dealer listed on Medford's AD list, did he purchase from an authorized distributor?

I can go on and on about how a lot of details are missing...

Please note, although I am a Medford fan, assuming this knife that you purchased truly was "NEW", then I can understand the frustration, as it not only passed the assembler's check, but also the final QC's hands as well (not to mention, your "small time knife guy" and his assessment of the "NEW" good prior to listing the product for sale). If that is truly the case, I would:
- A) disclose the person you purchased the knife from, and give Medford the details (people get hosed on all levels). They do work with distributors (as do many small businesses, as it's easier to manage a a few vendor contracts and allow them to manage network distribution instead of multiple vendor contracts and conducting the distribution themselves) and I am sure they can run the names.

That may not change the outcome, but it does add validity to your claim and the more honest, upfront, and diligent you are as a consumer in understanding their warranty policy, the more available and accommodating they will be. This is not just with Medford, but with any company...due diligence of understanding policy and explaining your case is always beneficial.

- B) MKT is a small company employing people they care about, that are assembling a product that has their name on it. Medford is a proud person. Nothing wrong with that. As much as it might be frustrating, navigate the situation knowing full well the frustrations that they may be experiencing as well.

They see a product that was assembled by a problem employee. They have their frustrations as they are business dealing with x,y, and z, but still have to deal with issue "c" and are concerned about the long tail implications of their brand and their perception as this product cycles its way through the ether.

My point in all of this is simple:
- that knife should have never left the factory that way
- that knife did leave the factory
- that knife fell into the hands of the reseller
- the reseller should have never sold that knife
- the reseller should have contacted MKT regarding the product
- the reseller sold it to you
- the reseller refused to deal with the issue (at least that is what I am assuming about the "griped about the knife")
- you are left dealing with neglect at multiple points

This all is a process. You are on one end, thinking "what is up with the centering" and MKT is on the other end thinking "where did this knife come from, do we know the history behind it"

Be patient. You have a pulse from them. Just be mindful. If you love the knife, know that maintaining a good relationship with its maker is key to you being able to use it confidently. Who knows, one day you may need to send in that knife for a re-profile, or an adjustment. Just know that there is a person on the other end of the line.

Regards
- Kris
 
It seems centering is getting better on most knives in recent years; I've noticed better centering from Spyderco and Cold Steel for sure, as well as many others.
 
Perhaps we should discuss why an off center blade is more than a cosmetic annoyance.

Does it mean the washers aren't flat, pivot hole is not straight, scales not perpendicular etc?

Clearly, digging into the frame when opening or closing can be a problem, but what about slightly off center? What is the actual effect on function?
 
Leftytwogunz said:
Clearly, digging into the frame when opening or closing can be a problem, but what about slightly off center? What is the actual effect on function?
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As long as there is no contact, I don't believe it is a functional issue. It is a fit & finish/Quality control issue. If the concern is purely function, the majority of low end knives can fill that role. We buy high end knives for the performance of materials and quality.

IMO, anything over $100 should be expected to come with a centered blade at the very least and the majority of companies are more than capable of doing this. The higher the price, the higher the expectations should be concerning the quality.
 
I'll agree, with a $400 knife, it better be perfect.

I mean, you can get a $10 Sanrenmu that's better f&f than that. And functionally identical. If that hi brow knife can't match a level that SRM does and practically gives away, you're paying for bragging rights. Heck that's what 99% of big money knife nuttery is anyhow.

On the other hand, among the knives I actually use, it really isn't an issue unless it's rubbing hard enough to be a problem. That doesn't seem to happen very often. Basically never, to me.

Anyhow, I have no sympathy for knife nuts who are so precious and their man baubles. Your heads would explode if you ever saw a krink on that stockman...
 
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Somehow the body panels on all the vehicles I've owned line up and the gaps are even. It's supposedly not easy to do that yourself.
 
A knife with a perfectly centered blade means that whoever made it takes pride in what they do - doesn't matter how much it cost. If he/manufacturer can't show enough pride in his product to center the blade then how can I be proud of owning it? Taking pride in my knives are, well, everything.
 
EChoil said:
Keeping in mind we're talking $100+ knives for the most part...

I never realized liner locks in a well-crafted knife threw blades off center. Are you talking about on defective knives ??

The OP DOES expect more out of a "good" maker, thus this thread.

I guess it doesn't matter, if you are timid or recalcitrant about addressing it as the shortcoming and deficiency in build it is......
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Where does the OP state $100+? I must have missed that. [emoji57]

Simple physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Asymmetrical pressure on one side of the blade from a liner or frame lock causes asymmetrical movement of the blade.

As long as a maker gets centering within a good tolerance it doesn't have to be mathematically perfect. How pedantic do we want to be?
 
pathwinder14 said:
Where does the OP state $100+? I must have missed that. [emoji57]

Simple physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Asymmetrical pressure on one side of the blade from a liner or frame lock causes asymmetrical movement of the blade.

As long as a maker gets centering within a good tolerance it doesn't have to be mathematically perfect. How pedantic do we want to be?
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He didn't have to state it. Is it not obvious to you since page 1 that we're talking about a $100+ knife here?

And when your "simple physics" is actually put into play, with other components of the knife, washers, pivots, etc., allowing adjustments and offsets at an almost micro level, it zeroes out to where the whole package results in an aligned knife blade. At that point the net result is that other components affecting the liner or frame RELATIVELY offset the principles you lay forth. While your theories may be correct, all things being in play the end result is usually a knife that centers.

Personally, I've never seen a knife where the liner contacting the blade has a visible effect, but then I've never looked closely for that. Maybe there are a few out there where you can see the blade move when you let the liner or frame contact it. But it's inconsequential to this case.

The fact remains---he has a new knife that isn't centered. And, IMO, it's highly doubtful that it's the frame pushing it to such a state. All one has to do is look at the pics the OP provided to see why there's a centering problem.

As to pedantics, I guess this can get as pedantic as you want. You've already taken the pedantics one step further than what it's been up to now.
 
sutherland said:
Yea....

Tell us more about this "small time knife guy".
- I assume if he is small time, he most likely inspected the knife upon receipt (most larger resellers conduct inspection of high-ticket items, especially if it is made for discerning niche market...)
- Why didn't he fulfill his obligation as a merchant (assuming he was not some "dude" on the forum) and offer you a refund or be the facilitator in the warranty service?
- Are you sure he was selling a new knife? If he wasn't a dealer listed on Medford's AD list, did he purchase from an authorized distributor?

I can go on and on about how a lot of details are missing...

Please note, although I am a Medford fan, assuming this knife that you purchased truly was "NEW", then I can understand the frustration, as it not only passed the assembler's check, but also the final QC's hands as well (not to mention, your "small time knife guy" and his assessment of the "NEW" good prior to listing the product for sale). If that is truly the case, I would:
- A) disclose the person you purchased the knife from, and give Medford the details (people get hosed on all levels). They do work with distributors (as do many small businesses, as it's easier to manage a a few vendor contracts and allow them to manage network distribution instead of multiple vendor contracts and conducting the distribution themselves) and I am sure they can run the names.

That may not change the outcome, but it does add validity to your claim and the more honest, upfront, and diligent you are as a consumer in understanding their warranty policy, the more available and accommodating they will be. This is not just with Medford, but with any company...due diligence of understanding policy and explaining your case is always beneficial.

- B) MKT is a small company employing people they care about, that are assembling a product that has their name on it. Medford is a proud person. Nothing wrong with that. As much as it might be frustrating, navigate the situation knowing full well the frustrations that they may be experiencing as well.

They see a product that was assembled by a problem employee. They have their frustrations as they are business dealing with x,y, and z, but still have to deal with issue "c" and are concerned about the long tail implications of their brand and their perception as this product cycles its way through the ether.

My point in all of this is simple:
- that knife should have never left the factory that way
- that knife did leave the factory
- that knife fell into the hands of the reseller
- the reseller should have never sold that knife
- the reseller should have contacted MKT regarding the product
- the reseller sold it to you
- the reseller refused to deal with the issue (at least that is what I am assuming about the "griped about the knife")
- you are left dealing with neglect at multiple points

This all is a process. You are on one end, thinking "what is up with the centering" and MKT is on the other end thinking "where did this knife come from, do we know the history behind it"

Be patient. You have a pulse from them. Just be mindful. If you love the knife, know that maintaining a good relationship with its maker is key to you being able to use it confidently. Who knows, one day you may need to send in that knife for a re-profile, or an adjustment. Just know that there is a person on the other end of the line.

Regards
- Kris
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Good post! I am usually on top of things like this, but I am trying to reduce the amount of time I spend trying to convince others to provide excellent service or a product. The seller was small time, selling tactical gear, knives etc and bought some Medfords, Maxpeditions , whatnot, from his distributor. So, I got a really good price on the knife and the knife was brand new, no question. The guy sold out and I just figured I got an excellent deal on a good knife. He suggested that Medford look at it. I thought , well, ok.. I watched the videos. I have seen him reworking knives on video. I have seen him run his big mouth about his work ethic, so what the hell, I will ask him about it! Did I call him direct? No, he was doing the SHOT show, I knew that, so I went through the standard channel of his website.

To re-iterate, I wasn't talking to Medford to get a WARRANTY on this lack of fitment. I just wanted them to give me an opinion. That's when Amy Medford speaks the truth about how the knife got that way and I find out kind of guy Greg really is.

So is the knife friggin awesome? No , it's not awesome. My other 187 DPT is awesome. This Black G10 187 coming back to me, is awesome, til you open it, feel the slight grittiness and less friction. If you had a ZT in your other hand, you wouldn't know this.

So, I go around the DFW MetroPlex everyday, for 20 years. I provide warranty and service for commercial building automation systems. I pride myself on delivering great service. I apologize for warranty issues and tell the customer that the problem will be solved, period. If I get called back on my mistake, I stand in front of the customer and tell them what I did not do correctly . Then I fix it, for free. My company bills me out at $150.00 an hour for service. Plus trip charge, plus laptop fee, plus parts mark-up. My word and actions better be gospel or I will get an ass-eating from five different people.

So when I get somebody on the phone with a big mouth and poor people skills these days, I just move on. I don't have the time to try and educate a guy who is my age on how to run his business. I got bigger things to worry about. Now... does that mean I won't tell other people about what happened and cost the guy some sales?
 
Kwon Kwang said:
I believe I may have misspoke on my post.

I agree with what other posters have said here in that a very expensive knife should have perfect centering. My more expensive Spydercos certainly do. If I were to buy a Chris Reeve, I would expect it to for two reasons besides the cost: the first is the lauded tolerances of a Chris Reeve knife that I keep hearing about. The second is the boasting CRK themselves do about it. While my Super Blue Endura does not (it doesn't bother me because it's a working knife that doesn't try to be anything else), my Delica does. I don't recall but I'll go home and check the centering on my Griptilian as well. If I recall, it's slightly off center. My Ti Millie, Calypso, Cricket and Sage 1 are also perfectly centered. My PM2 and Tenacious are not.

The reason I think a more expensive knife should have perfect centering is that this is the sort of thing we tend to buy very expensive knives for rather than pure performance. Either way, for me personally, it doesn't bother me as long as the blade isn't slanted so much to one side that it rubs the liner or frame. This is because of my general taste in knives; even my fancier, dressier and more expensive knives are working blades, as I dislike the idea of paying top dollar for a knife just so it can sit in the Spyderpac.
Click to expand...

I KNEW you knew all of this stuff. :)
 
My Sanrenmus and Enlans cost about $9 - $15 on average, and virtually all of them are near perfectly centered.

My S&Ws and Schrades most more than that and almost half of them are not centered.

Bottom line: i expect any knife I buy to be centered regardless of cost. If Enlan and Sanrenmu can do it at their giveaway prices there is no reason why Taylor can't do so even after charging more. All are made in China.
 
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