Couldn't say it any better.
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Outrage: NYC DA Shakes Down Knife Retailers
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Couldn't say it any better.
tyr_shadowblade
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New York has some of the most ill conceived, insane and Draconian legislation in the country when it comes to "weapons" -- which are defined as anything they want to call a weapon. A contractor with tools in the trunk of his car has "weapons". A golf club in the trunk of your car is a "weapon." Granny's knitting needles are "weapons" -- because "weapon" is deliberately vague and undefined.
New York is the only state where mere possession of a switchblade in the box in a locked safe in the basement of your own home is a crime.
New York is the only state where mere possession of an unloaded high capacity magazine, sans any firearm, is a felony.
New York is the only state where pistol permits are routinely and arbitrarily denied or revoked without cause or explanation or appeal with zero oversight.
And those are the rural parts of the state. NYC is far worse. Plainclothed officers dressed like street thugs will accost you on the street, flash a badge at you, and put you in handcuffs if they spot a pocket clip. You will get a permanent criminal record that applies to all 50 states and cannot be expunged or sealed. You may even be locked in the Tombs for weeks with the worst of NYC's criminals . . . because you had a pocketknife.
New York is the only state where mere possession of a switchblade in the box in a locked safe in the basement of your own home is a crime.
New York is the only state where mere possession of an unloaded high capacity magazine, sans any firearm, is a felony.
New York is the only state where pistol permits are routinely and arbitrarily denied or revoked without cause or explanation or appeal with zero oversight.
And those are the rural parts of the state. NYC is far worse. Plainclothed officers dressed like street thugs will accost you on the street, flash a badge at you, and put you in handcuffs if they spot a pocket clip. You will get a permanent criminal record that applies to all 50 states and cannot be expunged or sealed. You may even be locked in the Tombs for weeks with the worst of NYC's criminals . . . because you had a pocketknife.
Here in Massachusetts, possession of a pepper spray or a single rifle cartridge or shotgun shell without a FID (Firearms Identification Card) or a LTC (License To Carry Firearms), even in your own home, is a felony. Possession of a hi-cap magazine, by itself, without a LTC is a felony. Pistol permits (LTC Class A and B) are issued at the sole discretion of local police chiefs to anyone that they determine to be a "suitable person". They are routinely denied and revoked at will by the chiefs. LTCs are usually heavily restricted to target practice and hunting only, no self-defense concealed carry unless you are a LEO or licensed private detective. MA law gives chiefs the power to do this and appeals courts have upheld it. Keeping a regular hunting rifle or shotgun in your own home without a FID or LTC is a felony. In these respects, MA is even stricter than NY. Boston, Cambridge, Lawrence, Worcester, Revere, Salem, Beverly and Lynn are among the cities that ban the carrying of any knife with a blade over 2.5" in length. Arrests for violations are common and the result is a CORI (Criminal Offender Record Information) criminal record that can be "sealed" but never expunged. "Sealed" means that civilian inquiries (your boss, for example) cannot see it but LE agencies sure as hell can! Many employers get around this by requiring potential employees to submit a certified copy of their CORI record. You see, we have it pretty tough over here as well.
Sounds to me like the voters aren't doing their homework nor are the people fighting for their rights. I have said it once I say it a thousand times. One simple letter from thousands changes everything.
Critter what's your 2 cents on this subject? Has anyone tried to help assist these people with a plan of attack? Reading this really makes me sad. I wonder what happened to freedom.
I will write a letter of outrage for you. Remeber when sending in a letter always be polite, but firm.
Critter
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This thread is diverging from the issue regarding DA Vance in NYC. There are lots of really bad laws in this country, including a lot of irrational and stupid knife laws. Our focus is on knives. In this specific case the immediate issue is the inappropriate and incorrect application of existing NY laws in NYC by DA Vance. The issue of whether NY law itself can stand, is another subject that will come into play in relationship to enforcement of that law in this case and legislative solutions down the road.
Legislative solutions to the stupid laws already on the books is an entirely other issue altogether. Knife Rights has a legislative agenda to address these laws that we are implementing as funding and opportunity exists. Last year that resulted in the nation's first Knife Preemption Law in Arizona and the removal of restrictions on switchblades, dirks, daggers and stilettos in New Hampshire. We have bigger plans for next year, funding permitting.
Letters right now won't likely accomplish much and might be counterproductive to efforts already in the works. There will be a time for letters and when that time comes, we will let everyone know.
I am sorry doug. You are correct, this is heading off subject. I suppose, I get taken by these things and wish to rant. I am interested to know why sending a letter "at this time" would be counter productive. I thought it was always good to voice opinion on a subject. Now this could be ignorance on my part, nor am I prying for info. Just wondering, what I can do that is proactive, outside of sitting and waiting to find out whats next. Maybe i am wrong and sitting is something to do right now.
Thank you doug for your insight and the great work that you do!
Thank you doug for your insight and the great work that you do!
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I hope you don't take this the wrong way Mr. Ritter, but I'm not sure fighting this insanity is what we should be doing. I think by fighting against them we only continue to give them the illusion of legitimacy.
I think it's time for the few remaining non-communist, freedom loving New Yorkers left to realize the battle is lost and the time has come for a strategic withdrawal. I think Californians will find themselves in a similar place before too long. It's time for the productive working people to 'go Galt' and leave their failed people's republics in favor of free states, and to let their elected officials know why they are leaving.
Most of the northeastern states are no longer hospitable to free-thinking and productive people. It's time to pull out and let them collapse under their own weight.
I applaud your effort and I wish you success, but in my heart I fear you're only fighting a holding action at best.
Just my $0.02
I think it's time for the few remaining non-communist, freedom loving New Yorkers left to realize the battle is lost and the time has come for a strategic withdrawal. I think Californians will find themselves in a similar place before too long. It's time for the productive working people to 'go Galt' and leave their failed people's republics in favor of free states, and to let their elected officials know why they are leaving.
Most of the northeastern states are no longer hospitable to free-thinking and productive people. It's time to pull out and let them collapse under their own weight.
I applaud your effort and I wish you success, but in my heart I fear you're only fighting a holding action at best.
Just my $0.02
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Critter
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Letters seeking to change a politician's mind can be a very powerful tool, but only in context and timing is critical.
For example, DA Vance doesn't give a hoot what anyone who is not in NYC thinks, so any letters from elsewhere probably just get round filed, at best. At worst, it can encourage them to even more absurd behavior because they figure if they are pissing you off, they must be on the right track. <~> Moreover, even a few hundred letters wouldn't raise an eyebrow for someone like him because he knows who those who voted for him are, and it isn't you or anyone like you.
Now, if we could generate thousands of letters from NYC to flood the office and make a PR event out of it, that would be a different story, but I sort of doubt we could pull that off.
Where letters will play a very important part is when we try for a legislative fix. Letters from constituents make a huge difference when they are tied to legislation moving through the process. And, in some circumstances, even letters from those not constituents can help in legislation, if you can make it relevant, such as, "I won't spend money in your state if you don't pass this legislation and this will negatively impact your constituents in the following manner" sort of thing.
Hope this explains why I don't think this is the time for letters. OTOH, if it makes you feel better to write, go for it. Just don't be too disappointed if the results aren't what you want.
tyr_shadowblade
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Maybe it is that way in NYC, but in rural NY 1 out of 3 households has at least a rifle or shotgun, and folks are very upset about continued infringements upon their 2nd Amendment rights. However, NY Legislature has been historically corrupt for well over a century. As a matter of routine, new laws are created and put into effect secretly with no oversight and little media attention. They do not refer to Albany as "The Ivory Tower" without cause. Very elitist mindset. The constituents are "little people" who need to do as they are told . . . or else. The NYSP troopers parked in brand new SUVs on the sidewalks all around the capitol are not there for the benefit of the common rabble, they are in place to protect their King.
Letters seeking to change a politician's mind can be a very powerful tool, but only in context and timing is critical.
For example, DA Vance doesn't give a hoot what anyone who is not in NYC thinks, so any letters from elsewhere probably just get round filed, at best. At worst, it can encourage them to even more absurd behavior because they figure if they are pissing you off, they must be on the right track. <~> Moreover, even a few hundred letters wouldn't raise an eyebrow for someone like him because he knows who those who voted for him are, and it isn't you or anyone like you.
Now, if we could generate thousands of letters from NYC to flood the office and make a PR event out of it, that would be a different story, but I sort of doubt we could pull that off.
Where letters will play a very important part is when we try for a legislative fix. Letters from constituents make a huge difference when they are tied to legislation moving through the process. And, in some circumstances, even letters from those not constituents can help in legislation, if you can make it relevant, such as, "I won't spend money in your state if you don't pass this legislation and this will negatively impact your constituents in the following manner" sort of thing.
Hope this explains why I don't think this is the time for letters. OTOH, if it makes you feel better to write, go for it. Just don't be too disappointed if the results aren't what you want.
Sounds to me like New Yorkers are doomed to become england / ireland within the usa. It shocks me that he isn't brought up on charges for not following the law, like the common citizen is when they don't follow the law. How can the news etc. be missing the truth?
It blows my mind that he has yet to be informed of what a gravity knife really is and what the laws are within new york. How could he miss this?
The worst part, is it seems the latest and greatest, so called landmark case of Mcdonald vs Chicago didn't help much at all. Where is the 2nd amendment? This is a prime example that America is becoming lost and the local bodies of government couldn't care less. I am deeply scared for my children.
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Critter
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You're wondering why the NYC media isn't raising a rukus? The same media that helped elect him? The same media who wouldn't know a gravity knife if it bit them on the butt?
What makes you think he doesn't know? It's also entirely possible he doesn't care. It's also entirely possible he thinks that his interpretation is correct, regardless.
That decision was handed down less than 8 weeks ago. It was a decision that left a lot unanswered. It will take years of litigation to flesh it out, to discover what it really means. The reality is that it was a big step forward, if not as big as some had hoped. You don't turn around decades of abuse of law overnight.
Are things perfect? Hell no. But they could be a lot worse. And, in some respects they are better. It's not so simple. It never is. At the top of every page of the Knife Rights Web site is a quote that is as true today as it was when it was first written and which will be true 200 years from now. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -- Thomas Jefferson
If we quit being vigilant, if we quit fighting, then we lose. I'm not so inclined.
Isn't it amazing, how fast a guy like vance, can basically destroy a local knife community, yet it takes months or years to repair, if that happens at all.
I will have to agree, he doesn't care, since he went after home depot for the same knives, a court case ruled, not a gravity knife. I guess that is what amazes me most, concerning why the media etc. hasn't gotten involved asking "what's is up with that?"
I suppose, I will sit back and watch, as New york outlaws knives entirely and then helps it to spread like wildfire.
I made my donations and have spoken in posts abroad. I am also shocked there aren't several new yorker's on here complaining. Those local stores must have been selling to someone?
I will sit back for now and let others reply. I don't want to fill the thread with just my thoughts.
Come New Yorkers and tell us your thoughts.
I will have to agree, he doesn't care, since he went after home depot for the same knives, a court case ruled, not a gravity knife. I guess that is what amazes me most, concerning why the media etc. hasn't gotten involved asking "what's is up with that?"
I suppose, I will sit back and watch, as New york outlaws knives entirely and then helps it to spread like wildfire.
I made my donations and have spoken in posts abroad. I am also shocked there aren't several new yorker's on here complaining. Those local stores must have been selling to someone?
I will sit back for now and let others reply. I don't want to fill the thread with just my thoughts.
Come New Yorkers and tell us your thoughts.
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Is this what the hell has been going on?!?
I use to buy a lot of knives at Paragon Sports in the city and one day they just disappeared! I mean they had AWESOME and beautiful knives. Great collection. Spydercos, Benchmades, Ka-Bars, Gerbers, Kershaws, Bucks, so so many. This is terrible. So how many of those crimes are committed with kitchen knives? They don't really say do they.
If there were a string of murders committed with chess pieces are they going to outlaw chess????
I use to buy a lot of knives at Paragon Sports in the city and one day they just disappeared! I mean they had AWESOME and beautiful knives. Great collection. Spydercos, Benchmades, Ka-Bars, Gerbers, Kershaws, Bucks, so so many. This is terrible. So how many of those crimes are committed with kitchen knives? They don't really say do they.
If there were a string of murders committed with chess pieces are they going to outlaw chess????
No, just chess pieces.
I think you have to view Vance's actions in a different light that knife collectors/users are here. I have always posted for years now, that NYC enforces the NYSPL in a different manner than the rest of the state. They have always deemed any knife that can be flicked open and locks in place to be a gravity knife. When Spyderco came out with the "Spydie drop", ( opening the knife by holding the hole in the blade and flicking the handle open), the NYPD began enfocing this method of opening as a gravity knife also. Of course this is wrong and not the intent of the law as passed 50+ years ago, but case law has allowed this to stand. The scarey part is that this enforcement is based on the NYS ( not NYC) law, and even though other NYS DAs have not yet followed suit, they may at anytime. The assisted openers were designed to work in accordance with the exact wording of the NYSPL ( same as the federal law before the last favorable change), and Vance is completely wrong calling them switchblades, but no one ( even Kershaw or Buck) has challenged this yet. The last jury trial was won by the defendant since the jury realised they were not switchblades.
Now NOT to sound like a supporter of Vance, you must understand that in NYC there are in excess of 10,000 knife related weapon arrest each year in all five boros of the city. In Manhattan there were over 2,000 as quoted in the story. I can understand a new DA asking where all these knives are coming from in an attempt to control what represents a large number of weapon arrests. He may even be concerned that persons with no prior criminal records are being arrested for a knife that they bought over the counter at Home Depot. I some what believe this was a part of how this all started. The path he took to solve the issue is what has all of us the most upset. He has included legal knives as illegal, and he sort funds from large ( and small) companies not as fines for a guilty plea, but as a payment to avoid charges! That does not seem fair or even legal. It also did not allow this to bear the test of a court proceeding where the whole issue of what is and what is not a legal knife could have been determined. This was done to Walmart about six years ago in another state, and Walmart fought back in court and won! I suspect the same would have happened here if the proper legal action was taken. This is a time will tell situation for now, and I do have faith in Doug, and the other persons who feel this is wrong, and can help in some way.
Now NOT to sound like a supporter of Vance, you must understand that in NYC there are in excess of 10,000 knife related weapon arrest each year in all five boros of the city. In Manhattan there were over 2,000 as quoted in the story. I can understand a new DA asking where all these knives are coming from in an attempt to control what represents a large number of weapon arrests. He may even be concerned that persons with no prior criminal records are being arrested for a knife that they bought over the counter at Home Depot. I some what believe this was a part of how this all started. The path he took to solve the issue is what has all of us the most upset. He has included legal knives as illegal, and he sort funds from large ( and small) companies not as fines for a guilty plea, but as a payment to avoid charges! That does not seem fair or even legal. It also did not allow this to bear the test of a court proceeding where the whole issue of what is and what is not a legal knife could have been determined. This was done to Walmart about six years ago in another state, and Walmart fought back in court and won! I suspect the same would have happened here if the proper legal action was taken. This is a time will tell situation for now, and I do have faith in Doug, and the other persons who feel this is wrong, and can help in some way.
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I can only feel with you. I'm all for small arms control myself (a punk with a gun is no fun) but knives...
I bet I could wreak just as much havoc with a meat cleaver or one of my sharpest kitchen knives than most collector knives out there.
I think the NYPD and DA have more pressing issues to handle than this. Organized crime for one...
I bet I could wreak just as much havoc with a meat cleaver or one of my sharpest kitchen knives than most collector knives out there.
I think the NYPD and DA have more pressing issues to handle than this. Organized crime for one...
Don't worry; the media moguls have their bases covered. The late Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, publisher of the New York Times and husband of rabid anti-gunner Abigail Van Buren (of "Dear Abby" fame), had an unrestricted NYC carry permit that allowed him to carry 24/7. Donald Trump, his son and possibly his daughter all have unrestricted NYC carry permits. The elite certainly don't care about the great unwashed masses who are not allowed these "privileges". As D.A., Vance has plainclothes police assigned to his office and he would certainly have no problem obtaining an unrestricted carry permit if he wanted one. NYC is a lost cause, just like MA is. The best we can do is vote with our feet and get out as soon as possible. I have about 5 years to go to finish my career, then I will be headed south to the free state of Alabama. Already bought my retirement property there!
I am sorry, but you don't feel with me if your for small arms control. Period.
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