Overbuilt folders : Yes or no?

[DocJD]

Talking about overbuilt folders, I also think “overbuilt” framelocks are ridiculous, because of the big cutout in the frame that is the weakest point, but what about something like Miller Bros Blades T-1, a framelock with a pin (like the Extrema Ratio RAO but stronger, because Titanium frames are stronger than anticorodal aluminum of the RAO) that makes it almost as strong as a fixed blade? Don’t have one of those I’m afraid, but seems a good idea for an overbuilt folder?

Thanks ! I had to look it up . Compared to the 4 Max , looks uncomfortable , overly complex , and pricey . I'm pretty sure I'd lose the pin and a replacement probably costs more than most of my knives . But the concept is kinda interesting . Looks like a Medford or bloated Strider .

 

[stabman]

This is pretty much my standard "Overbuilt Knife Thread" response now:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-12-days-of-medford.1464833/

 

[hugofeynman]

This is pretty much my standard "Overbuilt Knife Thread" response now:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-12-days-of-medford.1464833/

A guy I know had a Medford praetorian closing in his hands wile in the field, so I would never trust a framelock folder in a survival situation, only exception would be a framelock with a security pin. Only problem is if I loose the pin... so better have a small fixed blade or a tri ad lock folder nearby.

 

[kniferbro]

The OP asked yes or no

Some have said yes some have said no

No one is right no one is wrong

Heck I edc a small fixed blade most days

Does not mean that that is the best choice for all

I’ve been involved in knives for decades and I’ve seen fads come and go

The overbuilt genre I do believe is here to stay but it does not mean they are for everyone

My biggest issue is with overbuilt frame locks

They just don’t add up

Hey Joe,

What kind of locks do you like?

 

[Lapedog]

A guy I know had a Medford praetorian closing in his hands wile in the field, so I would never trust a framelock folder in a survival situation, only exception would be a framelock with a security pin. Only problem is if I loose the pin... so better have a small fixed blade or a tri ad lock folder nearby.

What about framelocks that have a secondary lock like the Lionsteel Rotoblocks or the Real Steel and Ruike slide locks?

 

[Tommy-Chi]

What kind of locks do you like?

Wristlock
Straight Ankle Lock
Kimura Armlock
Americana Armlock
Rear Naked Choke
Banana Split Hiplock
Straight armbar

 

[Yonose]

This is pretty much my standard "Overbuilt Knife Thread" response now:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-12-days-of-medford.1464833/

That knife costs 4 times as much as the buck to which it’s compared. Would you say the c-sart is an acceptable poor man’s alternative?
Edit: I’ll withdraw the question, as I looked up the knife at bhq and see that it is a part of their budget friendly line of knives. Lol. $475 is cheap!

 

[hugofeynman]

What about framelocks that have a secondary lock like the Lionsteel Rotoblocks or the Real Steel and Ruike slide locks?

Those things will never be as reliable as a pin like the RAO and Miller BB T-1 uses to secure the blade and frame together as one or as the tri ad lock. At the moment I don’t have any Cold Steel folder, but had an Espada XL and that lock was crazy strong! I’ve sold it because for me it would be useless in a survival situation, that thin blade would be useless even for light prying, but the SR1 and the 4 max it’s a different story! But I would use a tougher steel with good edge retention for those folders, like Vanadis 4 extra or cpm3v, for example.

 

[onekerf]

Battle Horse Knives "Tree Frog"; folding "fixed" blade...

 

[Wolverine666]

I know they are heavy. I know they are large. I know it's better to use a fixed blade for hard tasks. I know it's better to use a thin and light folder for EDC. I'm sure Freud would have something to say about this...
But I still like my overbuilt folders

- Benchmade Adamas
- Grayman Satu
- Crusader Forge VIS-T
- Strider SMF
- Cold Steel 4-Max
- Cold Steel SR1

That SR1 looks nice

 

[sharp_edge]

A guy I know had a Medford praetorian closing in his hands wile in the field, so I would never trust a framelock folder in a survival situation, only exception would be a framelock with a security pin. Only problem is if I loose the pin... so better have a small fixed blade or a tri ad lock folder nearby.

I am with this poster.

I also echo some other posters that being heavy does not necessarily mean overbuilt.

 

[Mick_1KRR]

I must sound like a broken record sometimes and people must think i hate anything that isn't a Tri-ad lock, but it's totally not the case. I absolutely love my CRK framelocks, I just feel that facts get blurred a bit because of all the marketing around "overbuilt knives"... There is always a compromise, frame locks are great to use because they are convenient, simple and really all that is needed for normal cutting. I just don't understand how it could ever be thought that a frame lock which relies 100% on spring tension in a thin little bit of titanium, coupled with faith in a mass produced knife to have PERFECT lock geometry to not slip - how could this ever be thought to be secure enough for the kind of "hard use" fantasy situations that are out there.

Thickness of the scales, stop pin or blade means absolutely nothing if the knife can close on your while you're twisting and jamming that blade into wood (or cutting yourself out of a plane wreck battling the predator in some jungle). While the tri-ad and other pin based locks are really not necessary for daily use, if you're going to go all out and make a tanky folder, you can't skimp on the lock and use the same one you can find on a 3 ounce office carry edc blade. Makes zero sense (to me). But a tanky frame lock folder for normal carry just cos you enjoy the feel and design is totally fine cos it's just a hobby really. But when we talk about hard facts we need to treat these things like tools, weak points are weak points and need to be noted. I say all this in a complete light hearted discussion tone.

 

[Wolverine666]

People seem to really like the CS Triad lock. I need to try one out.

 

[JParanee]

Hey Joe,

What kind of locks do you like?

I don’t hate well done liner locks but to be honest I prefer compression locks and I like the axis lock

Frame locks are just to easy to disengage

 

[ROCK6]

I think the frame-locks are the troublesome ones. They can quite overbuilt, but not necessarily the toughest (or safest) locking mechanism. Those with locking pins do work, but they add complexity and the user must decide if the task is fine without the pin, or do they fiddle around and insert the pin for a tougher task. I don't mind having options, but must be looked at realistically.

I do have a RAO with the locking pin, and a surprising nice design from XAO is the Alpha Mark 1 model...simply a large slab of S35V and titanium handles with a locking pin (I don't necessarily care for the aggressive tanto-blade) that is an overbuilt folder capable of some pretty abusive work.

ROCK6

 

[Wolverine666]

I think the frame-locks are the troublesome ones. They can quite overbuilt, but not necessarily the toughest (or safest) locking mechanism. Those with locking pins do work, but they add complexity and the user must decide if the task is fine without the pin, or do they fiddle around and insert the pin for a tougher task. I don't mind having options, but must be looked at realistically.

I do have a RAO with the locking pin, and a surprising nice design from XAO is the Alpha Mark 1 model...simply a large slab of S35V and titanium handles with a locking pin (I don't necessarily care for the aggressive tanto-blade) that is an overbuilt folder capable of some pretty abusive work.

ROCK6

Great pics.

What is that all-black one? 4th from the left.

 

[Yonose]

That pin would drive me nuts.

 

[ROCK6]

Great pics.
What is that all-black one? 4th from the left.

That's the Extrema Ratio RAO.

That pin would drive me nuts.

Understandable. It's not bad for simply brute-force cutting, but for finer work, it can be a PITA. Having to put it in and take it out is the biggest issue (and of course, making sure you have a retention system to prevent loss). The nice thing about the RAO is that the sheath is designed to hold the knife folded or locked out like a fixed blade.

ROCK6

 

[tony281sc2]

Hell yeAh my overbuilt folder is a cold steel recon 1 clip point! Gotta have at least 1 Knife I could use as a screwdriver, a shovel and maybe to cut through steel.......just because lol

 

[Lapedog]

People seem to really like the CS Triad lock. I need to try one out.

I think there is little argument that it is one of if not the strongest lock on the market.

I wonder how the Demko AD-15’s scorpion lock compares.

I also don’t think anyone is arguing that liner/framelocks main advantage is strength. However for whatever reason people seem to love these locks. I have heard people say they are good because they are easy and intuitive to use...but honestly I haven’t really seen any locks that are harder to use. Also they seem to be one of the most finnicky lock to manufacture due to the need to get all the geometry right.

Nevertheless there is something about them. I really enjoy liner/framelocks. I think most people agree that they are not the ideal lock for a folder that is truly built for “hard use.” Actually I think the strongest folding mechanism might be balisongs and friction folders with long tang extensions like we see on the peasant Svord. As long as you are gripping the handle of these style knives the blade cannot shut unless there is a catastrophic break.

So why do you guys like liner or frame locks? I ask myself that sometimes too. I kinda like the aesthetic of a framelock I guess. What are your guys reasons?