Overbuilt folders : Yes or no?

Wolverine666 said:
People seem to really like the CS Triad lock. I need to try one out.
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You should. Tri ad lock may not be as fun and easy to operate than framelock flippers for new users but once you get used to it, it is not difficult at all. CS tri ad lock folders do not have many bling elements but they are absolutely the safest once the blade is locked.
 
Lapedog said:
So why do you guys like liner or frame locks? I ask myself that sometimes too. I kinda like the aesthetic of a framelock I guess. What are your guys reasons?
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For most, they are simply smoother actions, especially for flipper versions. For cost, simplicity, and most likely ergonomics, I think the TriAd locks are likely the strongest and most robust. I don't know of any that are "easier" to open or close than other lock types, but for a hard-use folder, they are simply the best value and choice.

Most users of folders don't use their folders hard enough to test the locking mechanisms. The robust mechanisms that are more complicated are often more expensive and typical users aren't going to push the locking mechanism of a folder costing $500-plus just to see how well it holds up. Most liner and frame locks are more than adequate as a typical EDC.

Innovation is good and I've seen so many different locking mechanisms, it's hard to assess what is really "worth it" for a hard-use folder. While I'm not necessarily a Cold Steel fan, I fully recognize their TriAd locking folders are some of the better hard-use folders on the market and at reasonable prices (although, the 4Max is pretty expensive for a production folder...but Demko does deserve his royalties!).

ROCK6
 
ROCK6 said:
For most, they are simply smoother actions, especially for flipper versions. For cost, simplicity, and most likely ergonomics, I think the TriAd locks are likely the strongest and most robust. I don't know of any that are "easier" to open or close than other lock types, but for a hard-use folder, they are simply the best value and choice.

Most users of folders don't use their folders hard enough to test the locking mechanisms. The robust mechanisms that are more complicated are often more expensive and typical users aren't going to push the locking mechanism of a folder costing $500-plus just to see how well it holds up. Most liner and frame locks are more than adequate as a typical EDC.

Innovation is good and I've seen so many different locking mechanisms, it's hard to assess what is really "worth it" for a hard-use folder. While I'm not necessarily a Cold Steel fan, I fully recognize their TriAd locking folders are some of the better hard-use folders on the market and at reasonable prices (although, the 4Max is pretty expensive for a production folder...but Demko does deserve his royalties!).

ROCK6
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I definitely agree that liner and framelocks are strong enough for pretty much anything a folding knife should be used for. That is provided it has proper geometry. I somehow doubt they are the easiest locks to build. They also seem to suffer from nuisance issues more often than other locks. Lock stick, lock rock, lock slip, etc.

While liner and framelocks are typically smoother than backlocks I don’t find them smoother than many other locks. Liner/framelocks have the detent ball exerting pressure on the side of the tang of a folder due to lockbar pressure. Other locks like button locks, compression locks or axis locks you can hold the lock open and then the blade swings free with the only friction being the pivot and bearings or washer.
 
Lapedog said:
While liner and framelocks are typically smoother than backlocks I don’t find them smoother than many other locks. Liner/framelocks have the detent ball exerting pressure on the side of the tang of a folder due to lockbar pressure. Other locks like button locks, compression locks or axis locks you can hold the lock open and then the blade swings free with the only friction being the pivot and bearings or washer.
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Agreed. The Axis locks can be extremely smooth, yet are a very reputable and strong locking mechanism. I have a Hogue plunge lock that is extremely smooth and (so far) quite strong. I also prefer compression locks over liner locks, but I've carried both a Spyderco Military or Para-Mil for years on duty and in combat and never had an issue despite some rough use on my part; I much prefer the Para-Mil compression though.

ROCK6
 
BladeScout said:
'Overbuilt' folders hold no allure to me.
In the eyes of some they are cool - I find some of them silly of silly designs if not outright counterproductive. Some are so big and heavy as to defeat the very purpose of carrying a folding knife.
Incredibly, they seem to convey an image of the being very strong (the folders that is), when any folder is only as strong as the weakest point - the pivot.
Some of them are big slab-like clown knives and look the part.
I dont personally need a bigger folder than for example a GB, as mentioned earlier.
If I want strong, I use a fixed blade.
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Not all overbuilt folders are weakest at the pivot. Framelocks/liner locks are weakest at the lock.

Then you have the Demko Triad, and to a lesser degree (blade play will develop easier) the Spyderco Powerlock. With locks like those, the blade itself will snap off, before the pivot, or lock fails. And if the blade itself breaks before any other part, then it does not matter in the slightest, if it were a folder, or a fixed blade with the same blade geometry/Steel/heat treat (even if the tang itself was enchanted by Odin himself) the knife, folder, or fixed blade would fail in the same manner, under the same stress.

It’s why the Triad reigns supreme. It’s the lock that stands above all others, in exceeding the strength of the blade itself.
 
JParanee said:
The OP asked yes or no

Some have said yes some have said no

No one is right no one is wrong

Heck I edc a small fixed blade most days

Does not mean that that is the best choice for all

I’ve been involved in knives for decades and I’ve seen fads come and go

The overbuilt genre I do believe is here to stay but it does not mean they are for everyone

My biggest issue is with overbuilt frame locks

They just don’t add up
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I agree 1000%. An overbuilt Framelock is like having the upper body of an Olympic Power Lifter, with the legs of Mr. Glass.
 
ROCK6 said:
the Alpha Mark 1 model...simply a large slab of S35V and titanium handles with a locking pin (I don't necessarily care for the aggressive tanto-blade) that is an overbuilt folder capable of some pretty abusive work.
[ROCK6
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Woa it looks super cool and the videos about the Alpha Mark 1 are impressive. I want this model! Alas I searched the Web but it appears discontinued :(
 
Lapedog said:
I think there is little argument that it is one of if not the strongest lock on the market.

I wonder how the Demko AD-15’s scorpion lock compares.

I also don’t think anyone is arguing that liner/framelocks main advantage is strength. However for whatever reason people seem to love these locks. I have heard people say they are good because they are easy and intuitive to use...but honestly I haven’t really seen any locks that are harder to use. Also they seem to be one of the most finnicky lock to manufacture due to the need to get all the geometry right.

Nevertheless there is something about them. I really enjoy liner/framelocks. I think most people agree that they are not the ideal lock for a folder that is truly built for “hard use.” Actually I think the strongest folding mechanism might be balisongs and friction folders with long tang extensions like we see on the peasant Svord. As long as you are gripping the handle of these style knives the blade cannot shut unless there is a catastrophic break.

So why do you guys like liner or frame locks? I ask myself that sometimes too. I kinda like the aesthetic of a framelock I guess. What are your guys reasons?
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There are also friction folders with a security pin to make it almost a fixed blade! Check Berest brothers Uruk Hai. It’s a beast of a folder, with its blade made in good Ol carbon steel (65G ~ 1065). That thing is really tough, but better not loose the pin!
 
Wolverine666 said: ↑

People seem to really like the CS Triad lock. I need to try one out.

sharp_edge said:
You should. Tri ad lock may not be as fun and easy to operate than framelock flippers for new users but once you get used to it, it is not difficult at all. CS tri ad lock folders do not have many bling elements but they are absolutely the safest once the blade is locked.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. I have been a very, very slow convert to use Cold Steel products. It isn't because of the normal complaining about Thompson and his ads, his demos, etc. I don't care about those. I was uninterested because of the way they felt in my hand (too skinny, I have big mitts) and wasn't fond of their steel choices. I bought an American Lawman at the suggestion of a maker here on BF, and was really surprised. Did a few minor mods and took it to the job site to go to work. Great work knife! The lockup and its reliability/durability is certainly huge to me as I have had some locks fail and others just loosen over time.

I recently had an incident of theft where a group of my work knives were stolen, and I am replacing a few up them. One of the replacements I chose is a CS Ultimate Hunter, and it is an incredible knife. Locks up with no movement anywhere, and no doubt the Demko lock will stay as strong as the CS Amercian Lawman I bought and have used for years. It's a large knife, but lightweight, has sculpted G10 scales, a small pocket clip that doesn't draw any attention, plenty of handle for my mitts to make it a great job site knife, very lightweight and has a beautiful satin finish on the CTS-XHP blade. Can be found for under $100.

I thought the Demko lock was a gimmicky back lock of some sort until I bought a CS. I still love some of my other work knives and they lock up fine, but I really don't think the blades on either CS will ever loosen no matter how hard I work them.

Robert
 
ursamajor said:
Not all overbuilt folders are weakest at the pivot. Framelocks/liner locks are weakest at the lock.

Then you have the Demko Triad, and to a lesser degree (blade play will develop easier) the Spyderco Powerlock. With locks like those, the blade itself will snap off, before the pivot, or lock fails. And if the blade itself breaks before any other part, then it does not matter in the slightest, if it were a folder, or a fixed blade with the same blade geometry/Steel/heat treat (even if the tang itself was enchanted by Odin himself) the knife, folder, or fixed blade would fail in the same manner, under the same stress.

It’s why the Triad reigns supreme. It’s the lock that stands above all others, in exceeding the strength of the blade itself.
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Some are these folders are by their very nature very big. To some degree to make them 'stronger' and to some degree because people think them 'cool,' as evidenced by this thread.
Its what some customers currently want.
For me there is a breaking point (no point intended) in regards to size. I kind of like the Adamas but I dont own one and am not currently in the market for buying one.
If others want to carry a folding brick like some of the more outlandish folders around, thats their money and their business.
 
hugofeynman said:
There are also friction folders with a security pin to make it almost a fixed blade! Check Berest brothers Uruk Hai. It’s a beast of a folder, with its blade made in good Ol carbon steel (65G ~ 1065). That thing is really tough, but better not loose the pin!
Click to expand...
Check out this one - the Battle Horse Tree Frog.
A knife with a pin arrangement as well.
Ive not used the Tree Frog and dont know if one tires of the 'pins on a leash' arrangement/if its design concept is a dead end or how the knife works out in years of use. I quite like it though and am tempted.
Might make for a compact 'bushcraft' knife and/or backup knife when in the woods.
https://www.bladehq.com/item--Battle-Horse-Knives-Tree-Frog--49462
 
midnight flyer said:
Wolverine666 said: ↑

People seem to really like the CS Triad lock. I need to try one out.



Couldn't agree more. I have been a very, very slow convert to use Cold Steel products. It isn't because of the normal complaining about Thompson and his ads, his demos, etc. I don't care about those. I was uninterested because of the way they felt in my hand (too skinny, I have big mitts) and wasn't fond of their steel choices. I bought an American Lawman at the suggestion of a maker here on BF, and was really surprised. Did a few minor mods and took it to the job site to go to work. Great work knife! The lockup and its reliability/durability is certainly huge to me as I have had some locks fail and others just loosen over time.

I recently had an incident of theft where a group of my work knives were stolen, and I am replacing a few up them. One of the replacements I chose is a CS Ultimate Hunter, and it is an incredible knife. Locks up with no movement anywhere, and no doubt the Demko lock will stay as strong as the CS Amercian Lawman I bought and have used for years. It's a large knife, but lightweight, has sculpted G10 scales, a small pocket clip that doesn't draw any attention, plenty of handle for my mitts to make it a great job site knife, very lightweight and has a beautiful satin finish on the CTS-XHP blade. Can be found for under $100.

I thought the Demko lock was a gimmicky back lock of some sort until I bought a CS. I still love some of my other work knives and they lock up fine, but I really don't think the blades on either CS will ever loosen no matter how hard I work them.

Robert
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I'm the same way as far as dragging my feet to try CS. But I'm about to take the plunge.

I also really like the look (and thick liners) of the Spyderco Mamba. I've been looking for something similar in non-flipper form.
 
patrickguignot said:
Woa it looks super cool and the videos about the Alpha Mark 1 are impressive. I want this model! Alas I searched the Web but it appears discontinued :(
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Black versions still available. This is where I purchased mine:

http://thebigknifestore.com/alpha-mark-1-black-model/

Materials are excellent as is the design, but I wish they would do a different blade profile. I'm not complaining too much, but it's a pretty aggressive tanto style

ROCK6
 
ursamajor said:
Not all overbuilt folders are weakest at the pivot. Framelocks/liner locks are weakest at the lock.

Then you have the Demko Triad, and to a lesser degree (blade play will develop easier) the Spyderco Powerlock. With locks like those, the blade itself will snap off, before the pivot, or lock fails. And if the blade itself breaks before any other part, then it does not matter in the slightest, if it were a folder, or a fixed blade with the same blade geometry/Steel/heat treat (even if the tang itself was enchanted by Odin himself) the knife, folder, or fixed blade would fail in the same manner, under the same stress.

It’s why the Triad reigns supreme. It’s the lock that stands above all others, in exceeding the strength of the blade itself.
Click to expand...
Well put. Ive gravitated to lock backs in recent years and the Triad is now my favorite lock. Before that it was the compression lock, followed by the axis lock. I like liner locks better than frame locks.
Cold Steel is high value.
 
whp said:
12 ounces! Yikes.
Wonder if that s going to be twice as strong as my Recon1. For twice the price? Maybe.
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I doubt it’s twice as strong, but it’s quite a beast! With the security pin engaged, that thing it’s like a fixed blade stabbing! Look at their Facebook page!
 
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