Pacific Salt saves my dog from being mauled to death...

Tough situation. I have gentle soft mouthed gun dogs (two Brits and a Springer Spaniel). They are not fighting dogs so I don't think they would fair too well against hillbilly muts or pit bulls. I have had pit bull owner basically threaten to let their dog kill my dog because they think they are bad asses or something.

I was at the part once and someone told me that there dog could kill my dog if told it to. I told him that he doesn't have to worry about my dog, he needs to worry about me. I don't use my dogs as a way to be a tough guy. I carry a gun most of the time and I will shoot a pit bull if it attacks my dogs. I wouldn't even feel bad about shooting a unleashed pit bull from a scumbag owner that thinks it is funny to let it attack other dogs.

I think you did what was right. It is one thing if the dogs are just fighting but it is different if it isn't even fair and your dog is just a meal.

I want to get an APS baton because if you have ever seen a dog fight, a gun might not be the best option. You may hit your dog or you may not hit anything. It is a blur of teeth and fur and I wouldn't want to risk it. A club is non-lethal yet can also be used in defense if they turn on you.

I wish people would just own dogs as pets and not as weapons.
 
Jill,
It is pretty obvious that you have a good case of the "blood lust" and would gladly attend a Pit Fight.
FYI, the Pit Bull that came after ME was identified as an American Pit Bull Terrier by the owner, to the animal control officer who I called after the event took place. The animal control officer said that the dog tried to get to here while she was interviewing the owner of the APBT and the dog was written up as a "visious dog". The owner spent most of his time complaining about how badly chewed up his dog was. My Rott. was not a fighting dog, he was trained for obedience, protection, and prisoner locatiing and control. He was trained under the rules of the "French Ring Sport". When he stepped between me and the APBT he was doing what he was trained for, "protection" of me.
I am sorry, but there have been too many stories of "pit bulls" turning on their owners or their owners children for me to see the pit bull as a nice loveing family dog. Just 2 days ago in Seattle 2 pit bulls attacked a lady walking her Lab on his leash. When the police got there one of the pit bulls attacked one of the officers and was shot. Sadly the poor ladies Lab was so torn up that he had to be put down also.

You left out one of the strongest of the fighting dogs in your essay....The Dogo Argentino, also know as a "pig dog".

How many American Pit Bull Terrriers do YOU own since you sound like you think this is the ultimate "macho dog" to own?

Personally, I would have no problem with shooting unfettered pit bulls that were running lose and I truly love dogs of all breeds (even the White Bull Terrier) but the "killing dogs" should be banned from public ownership.

You think your way and I will think my way, at 65yrs. old I am too old to ever accept your way of thinking and I have owned many different breeds.

Let it drop!

Ciao:grumpy:
 
Jill,
It is pretty obvious that you have a good case of the "blood lust" and would gladly attend a Pit Fight.

Ron,
Respectfully, I don;t think that was Jill's point. I read her posts and, like you, she speaks a pretty good game of sense. In fact, she said just the opposite about fighting dogs... you might have missed it, I think it was the first post.

I agree with you though, blood thirsty dogs, any but especially pit bulls because of their power and ferocity, should be put down.
 
I admire dogs ability only, just because I have knowledge of a subject does not mean I am guilty of anything. My pitbull was given to me by a family that wouldn't see to her needs. Shes a very sweet dog and plays roughly with my other 3,(a yellow lab, a corgi, a mixed hound) never taking it beyond play. Shes rather intelligent and very loving. I know of a woman that was killed by her two rotts when she jumped on them to save her grandson. A 12 year old boy was killed by a great Dane a few miles away. Another boy was killed by the families St. Bernard. So all dogs can be dangerous. Thing is any idiot can have a kid and its the same with a dog. Why not control all dogs? Make people take care of their dogs? How many dogs are tied up to a open dog house all year round and barely kept alive? How many do you see just driving about? If you complain will the people in charge do anything? No not as long as the dog has "shelter". I've had to shoot a dog before that wouldn't stay away and leave my pets alone. I tried to run it away with gunfire a few times. It kept coming back starting fights. I at last killed it. Was it the dogs fault it had a lousy owner? By the way it wasn't a "pit bull" it was a boxer. How many people would have called it a pit bull? ( by the way Ron that wasn't MY essay it was written by people that legally fight dogs in Japan and its the facts they have found. The Dogo is a hunting breed bred to hunt wild boar in South America they did try them in fighting contests and they was found lacking, you see I read a lot about many things that interest me and I just like to be informed)
 
My mom's golden retriever was grabbed by the muzzle by a neighbor's pitt and partially pulled under the chain link fence. MY dad (retired Colonel and reserve Police Officer). Went over that day and gave it a case of 12 ga. Lead poisoning. Sorry to say, the pitt did not live... There were at least half a dozen similar complaints filed previously as as this is a fairly rural Texas town, no one complained (not even the owner).
 
I admire dogs ability only, just because I have knowledge of a subject does not mean I am guilty of anything. My pitbull was given to me by a family that wouldn't see to her needs. Shes a very sweet dog and plays roughly with my other 3,(a yellow lab, a corgi, a mixed hound) never taking it beyond play. Shes rather intelligent and very loving. I know of a woman that was killed by her two rotts when she jumped on them to save her grandson. A 12 year old boy was killed by a great Dane a few miles away. Another boy was killed by the families St. Bernard. So all dogs can be dangerous. Thing is any idiot can have a kid and its the same with a dog. Why not control all dogs? Make people take care of their dogs? How many dogs are tied up to a open dog house all year round and barely kept alive? How many do you see just driving about? If you complain will the people in charge do anything? No not as long as the dog has "shelter". I've had to shoot a dog before that wouldn't stay away and leave my pets alone. I tried to run it away with gunfire a few times. It kept coming back starting fights. I at last killed it. Was it the dogs fault it had a lousy owner? By the way it wasn't a "pit bull" it was a boxer. How many people would have called it a pit bull? ( by the way Ron that wasn't MY essay it was written by people that legally fight dogs in Japan and its the facts they have found. The Dogo is a hunting breed bred to hunt wild boar in South America they did try them in fighting contests and they was found lacking, you see I read a lot about many things that interest me and I just like to be informed)

Jill,
You make some good points and I do not want to start a "my dog is tougher then your dog".
I agree with you whole heartily that it should be the owner's responsibility to contain their dogs, no matter what breed. It just seems that over the years that the pit bull has given itself(do mostly to the owner) a lot of bad press.
The original pit bull was the Staffordshire Bull Terrier from England and it just so happens that this is one of the breeds that I would consider owning but you can bet he would be professionally trained mostly for obedience.

I would like to end this debate at this point.
Thanks for your information.
Ciao
Ron
 
Hey Ming,
I'm glad you're dog is okay, and I'm glad that you did not get attacked as well.
I think you did the right thing.

As for dog breeds...
Any dog can be trained to be mean, but most are wonderful companions.
Pitts are no exception.

Here's my baby...who I think is a Pitt mix of some sort...
But she's more of a clown than a fighter.


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It doesn't matter what breed of dog you own as long as you care for it and are a responsible owner. There's many breeds of dogs that can be dangerous. Get rid of one the people that want to own a tough dog for the wrong reasons will just find another. Banning a entire breed just because a few idiots own one and are not responsible owners, is to me like banning guns or knives because some people misuse them. Dogs where developed by man for certain purposes and ultimately the task of caring for and seeing to it the dogs are not allowed to be aggressive with other people's pets, or even people falls directly on the owners. Nobody enjoys being threatened by any breed of dog and yes its your right to defend your pets and person. But there's many people in the world that think it's so badass to own anything that can intimidate others.
 
Jill,
I hear what you're saying, and for the most part I agree.
I also live in a rather nice community these days, but sadly, there are still parts of the world where things are dark and ugly.
I grew up in a place where a very tough and intimidating dog in the yard was a definite asset.
And a tough and intimidating father in the house was an even bigger asset!
The wealthy had gated communites, police at their beck and call, and high tech security systems.
We had muscles, guns, and dogs!
I'm glad that I will not need to raise my own family in such a place.

Sometimes the world can be hard and cruel.
 
Ming glad to hear everything's ok with your little fella. I don't know what I'd do if another dog attacked my Pig Dog (Boston Terrier we call him Pig Dog cause he snorts all the time), probably the same think you did only I think I'd definately look like the Conan pic that was posted. I can't believe someone would let their dogs do that; unbelievable.

BTW Allen C you've a sweet baby there! Bet she's a hoot!
 
allenC,
I am not sure what mix he is but that is not the look of a mean dog. I wouldn't be shy of petting that dog if it came up to me.

The fighting dogs are another story. They are agressive and unpredictable. I don't blame the dogs as they are only doing what they were trained and breed to do. I blaim the owners of course. There needs to be some sort of penalty for owning animals that terrorize and harm other dogs and people.

I carry a gun. I know I am something like 4 times more likely to be attacked by a dog than a human. I am not sure of the exact figuire you get the idea. If you are walking a dog, you are probably 40 time more likely to be attacked or have your dog attacked. This stuff happens, unfortunatly all too often. Sometimes you are lucky and only ge a few scratches and sometimes it is really bad.

I always carry a decent knife like a Spyderco Military or similar. I try to carry a gun as often as possible but sometimes it is not as easy as a knife. A club or ASP has got to be a better option than either. Mace might be a good choice but you might mace your dog as well. Not a big deal considering the alternative.
 
The American Pit Bull is a "fighting bred" and this is what wikipedia has to say about them. Temperament

APBT (fawn)APBTs can be very sweet, curious, intelligent, and clownish. They are noted for their outgoing, affectionate, eager-to-please disposition and their fondness for people, and when raised with a firm but fair hand can make a wonderful family pet. APBTs can also be stubborn, pushy, and prone to display aggression towards other dogs. They are not a good choice of dog for a novice dog owner.

The American Temperament Test Society, Inc. breed statistics as of December 2005 show an 83.5% passing rate for the APBT as compared to an 81.2% overall pass rate for all the different breeds they test, showing that many of these dogs have stable and dependable temperaments. However, a firm, even hand and early obedience training are musts for this breed. Inexperienced owners tend to find them to be too much to handle - APBTs can be quite "bouncy"! They generally have a lot of energy and high prey drive; they need exercise and stimulation in order to channel that energy properly and not become frustrated, bored, and destructive.

Despite the stereotype, the average, sound-minded pit bull is not a threat where children are concerned. Though the AKC and UKC recommend that no child be left alone with a dog, the APBT, like many of its relatives, is a breed more likely not to know its own strength and knock a toddler down by accident rather than by force. (This is another reason why training is important.) With slightly older children they can be a patient and exuberant friend: pit bulls were bred to have a high tolerance for pain and thus will put up with a child's tail yanking, horseplay, and tumbling with little complaint. It is also a breed that is strong for its size and weight, so older children are better recommended to take the dog on its leash for walks.

APBTs often display some level of dog aggression, especially towards strange dogs of the same sex or level of assertiveness. Early socialization and good training can mean that many individuals of the breed never display this trait. However, it must be remembered that this breed was traditionally developed for dog fighting purposes, and even APBTs that were previously sociable may develop dog aggression as they mature; as a breed they mature later than usual, between the ages of two and three years. A responsible APBT owner does not let their dog interact with strange dogs unsupervised, and knows how to avoid a dog fight.

APBTs were never bred for human aggression or guarding behavior, and stable examples of the breed are generally not suitable as guard dogs. It is important that APBTs who display any sign of human aggression are not bred, in order to preserve the stable and friendly nature of the breed.

When selecting an APBT puppy, it is paramount to find a breeder who selects puppies for their good temperament and not for aggressive tendencies towards other dogs or towards humans. A good breeder should know the UKC standard, and should both health test and temperament test their breeding stock. A breeder who boasts about their dogs' "guard dog" skills or "protective" behavior is a giveaway that their dogs are bred for improper human aggression. It is also a good idea for prospective APBT owners to research the breeder, ask for references and ask to see their facilities and other dogs they have raised. It is also a good policy for owners to have their dog microchipped where possible as this breed is often stolen in and near urban areas for ill uses; in the U.S. a dog license is recommended as well as most areas require them.

Adult pit bulls are frequently also available from animal shelters. Reputable shelters will temperament test their dogs before adoption, so that only dogs with stable temperaments are available for rehoming. The advantage of obtaining an adult dog from a shelter is that its temperament is already known, and a dog with low dog aggression or low prey drive can be selected if desired.

As bright, athletic dogs, American Pit Bull Terriers excel in many activities, including weight pulling, search and rescue, dog agility trials, flyball, and can even do well in some advanced obedience training. In the United States they have been used as narcotics detection police dogs, Border Patrol dogs, and Search and Rescue dogs because of their tenacity, high energy drive, and versatility. In a home they can make wonderful dogs to go on a morning run with, take out on errands, and play fetch; they do best in a home with a backyard but will also do fine in an urban setting so long as they are walked and exercized often. (ones that are raised with a firm hand and loved are not at all agressive to people I've had many people see my dog and pet her and go away saying people have the wrong idea about those dogs, not to say others don't abuse any dog they own)
 
We have a Pembroke Welsh Corgi. They were bred for herding. She has never seen a cow or sheep, but go run in the back yard and she instinctually tries to herd you.

You can quote whatever sources you wish, but a breed bred for aggression and fighting will often (maybe not always – but often) still have those instincts - even with the most responsible of owners.
 
We have a Pembroke Welsh Corgi. They were bred for herding. She has never seen a cow or sheep, but go run in the back yard and she instinctually tries to herd you.

You can quote whatever sources you wish, but a breed bred for aggression and fighting will often (maybe not always – but often) still have those instincts - even with the most responsible of owners.

+1........ its just a cold hard fact.

another fact is that most "inner city" pits and their offspring, which could be at any pound or shelter or whatever and could be up for adoption, are used for fighting, sentry duty, protection and alerting for drug houses etc etc. all the "bad owner" type things, sorry if this offends you or whatever, its just the way it is.

dog fighting is rapidly becomming the most popular type of "indoor sport betting" that goes on in the larger cities. again its a fact.

sorry, its just how they are bred and used and its what gives them the bad rep.

in fact when i see one in the "hoods" or other known high crime area, its the first thing that goes thru my mind.
 
Is it the dogs fault people abuse them? Or is it the people doing it? Why blame a breed of dog when clearly the root of it all lies with the owners. Where I live aggressive dogs are not a problem. If the owners don't care for their dogs and contain them if they are of the type that needs it they won't cause trouble long. Its not a breed specific thing either. Often any pair or more of large dogs will tend to try to cause trouble with a neighbors stock or pet. The law allows the dogs to be shot if so. If you ever watch Cesar Millan in the hit TV show Dog Whisperer, you will see how he can train the owner of any dog to handle pits, rotties anything. He rehabilitates dogs and trains people. Has a pack of near 40 mixed breed dogs (heavy on the pit and rotts) he has trained to live in a pack. There's an art to handling dogs no matter what the breed.(doesn't hurt if you really care about your pets) If you or your pet are attacked by a dog that you need to hurt or kill, by all means its about the only choice you have. But the same dog if another had owned (the right owner)it would have never been a problem. So I really can't stand people that don't take proper care of any animal they own. Its always the owners fault.
 
Good for you Ming65. I'd like to think I would have done what you did, nothing enrages me more than when something threatens my dog.

Actually, I have a bigger issue hurting a dog than the human that controls it, my English Settler having been threatened by both. I truly love dogs.
 
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