paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

Doing it your way... I can watch the burr thicken when I am using more pressure on the blade, and thin out when I let up.

This is helping me get the same thickness of burr the full length of the blade, as I have to use the same pressure/angle and not create dips.

I know not to pull the tip of the blade off the edge of the wheel, and wondered if starting with the tip would be any better?
 
My question is how hard are the wheels? I mean the whole reason why I don't use a grinder with stone wheels is with the hardness and the speed it's horrible. The knife bounces around. Don't get me wrong I did this years ago and am pretty good now at sharpening with bench stones and my belt grinder. I had a chef's knife full of chips and thought "what the hell" this'll take too long by hand! Not good. Instantly blued the edge. How is this different than a normal grinder or better yet the norton "cool" stone wheels. And what grit is the wheel covered in? Thanks
 
I'm pretty sure the wheels are 220 grit they could be 320 I'm not sure. They are fairly hard but the blades don't bounce off unless you go edge first into the wheel in which case the knife, chisel, axe or whatever your sharpening will go flying like a bat out of hell. If you have any common sense that won't happen (which apparently I don't have :D [I cut into two different wheels with a chisel)
 
No I was definitely grinding edge trailing. Not sure how to explain but it's like using a belt sander with 3M's micron belts on a platen. Worse than that but kind of same idea. Just too hard of a surface. That's a really low grit. I can see for setting the bevel but that polishing compound on the honing wheel isn't going to do anything to remove those scratches. I can see this working well for creating an edge and even deburring but not much in the way of edge refinement. Good for people who like course edges though. And I'm really not trying to cause an argument here as I'm not a s*** disturber just my opinion
 
Don't knock it 'till you try it. They don't cause the knife to bounce at all and the polishing wheel actually DOES buff the scratches out and very well. A crappy pic to show the polish you can get on my EDC.


CCF82136-C714-4646-88DC-BA68AB69498A-9658-000007904CFE1785.jpg


You can actually make out my fingertips towards the handle on the blade



EDIT: I also wanted to ask where on the grinding wheel your holding the blades. Even if it is the hard grinding wheel I've never had bounce issues, and I have done a ton and I do mean ton of grinding on hard wheels.
 
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richard j said:
it looks like you need to work up another burr and get rid of the chips in your edge unless the marks i am seeing is something on the edge
Click to expand...

That was after I used the knife for a few days. I didn't have time to re sharpen it yet, I just wanted to show the edge.
 
i was playing around with the buffing wheel to see if i could put a half way decent mirror finish on a wharncliff knife i made for a member (that is a medic) to cut seatbelts with. it works pretty well on a small surface.

i posted a picture on my website of the knife (the link to my website is in my sig line) i have a link at the very top of my site that takes you to the pictures i have posted on my site. i aslo have other pictures and i have some vids posted of knives i sharpened cutting newspaper.
 
The slotted wheel will not give you a true mirror edge (at least I haven't been able to get one) but will give you a near mirror edge. The finished blade is very smooth and not coarse as stated by Vicv. I can take a q-tip and run down the edge of a finished blade and there is no rough spots to hang up on. This is after using the slotted wheel and before I use an external leather strop. That is my test to see if the burr is completely gone and the blade is ready for further polishing on the leather strop. The strop is just an extra step I use on my EDC collection to help bring out that little extra shine for "show off" use only. I don't use the strop on my kitchen knives, as it is not really needed. That is just me.

As far as edge refinement, you can't get much better than what the wheels will give you if used properly. The bouncing around mentioned will not happen if your wheels are round and balanced on the shaft. I use the word ROUND to mean not egg shaped or out of round. The grit size is not too course when used with the wax properly. A grit size of 600 or above is just not needed with this concept in my opinion. Try it, you might like it! At least then, you can give an honest opinion of the wheels, without using hear say from other people that have not used them either. I try not to bad mouth any system unless I have actual experience on it, and not what I have heard or read from other people.

Again not to stir up or step on any ones toes, but just my own take and opinion on some remarks made by people in reference to the wheels in general.

By the way, I am not targeting you Vicv. Your remarks and opinion just reminded me of some recent remarks posted and i wanted to put my $0.02 worth in the conversation. I welcome and appreciate your input, as that is what makes this forum such a great learning experience for all of us. Oh yeah, the wheels are not as hard as stone wheels as they are made from paper and have a small amount of "give" to them. Not much, but still not stone hard.

Blessings,

Omar
 
No problem. I wasn't trying to knock the system at all. Just trying to figure it out. From my experience I prefer to go higher in grit. That's all. I'm more into kitchen knives though. Hand sharpening I usually go to 6000 grit or higher plus power and manual stropping. For my belt grinder I usually finish on 1500 or higher so I get a nice smooth polished but still toothy edge. For the q-tip idea that's more for making sure all burr is removed. I can pass that test using a 120 grit Sic stone that leaves behind an edge really only useful for sawing rope if you don't refine it so the q-tip test doesn't prove whether you have a fine edge or not. But going from the grit wheel to polishing wheel would be like to me from a 120 grit belt to loader leather strop in terms of edge refinement. That white rouge I'm sure doesn't have a very aggressive abrasive in it otherwise it wouldn't be for polishing. Once again not knocking the system just trying to figure it out. I may still try it though. Or at least the slotted wheel with compound. Seems like a good idea to knock off a burr without refining it down as I know the leather won't do anything to a burr made from a coarse belt. I have a half dozen 1725 rpm motors lying around and all I have to get is the shaft turny deely(can't remember what it's called). For the bench grinder I can't remember how I held the knife but it was basically at 90 degrees (on top of wheel) with knife tilted for angle. I understand your hatred though of the naysayers who have no experience but go by what they read somewhere. I get people telling me all the time I shouldn't use a belt grinder cause it will remove too much metal and ruin the temper. I only remove exactly the amount of metal I want to and as far as overheating the blade that's basically impossible. I tried it one time. took a super cheap knife and held it in one spot on the edge and didn't move. after 30 sec I got bored so I really leaned into it. After another 30 sec it finally turned that one area a slight brown colour which still won't temper the knife unless it's a super hard (+60 hrc) steel
 
Thanks for the call Richard...now I am fine tuning my edges!

Funny how many jump in and make opinions without reading the forum pages.
Read all the posts... and there are tons of info on almost every aspect of these wheels. This will give some background for questions, and stop most arguments.

I have not met a man more forthcoming with knowledge, or as helpful as RichardJ!
 
I have read the whole thing. It seems it can go the other way. Some people don't like others questioning their prefered methods. I once again am not jumping in and making conclusions. I'm simply asking some specific questions which weren't brought up from what I saw. If you'd read the whole of my previous post you'd see that. Anyway I guess you're the best and your system is the absolute best and works the best for every and all situations. So I'll leave this discussion now. Enjoy all
 
Sorry about my reply, it was not aimed at anyone,.. just a run off about what RichardJ and I talked about last night about being trolled.
(Mostly why I have just lurked since 2004.)

I have been sharpening at work since 1982, and have used everything from belt sanders.... to the big 3' diam. stone wheels in a water trough.
I have been swayed to these paper wheels because of the time saved.

I need practice..... as with learning anything new, but these wheels work great compared to anything else I have used freehand.

Sorry I didn't mean to offend, the responses of most users here are from years of their craft, and are helpful to everyone.
 
Ok sorry if I got defensive. I thought it was aimed at me. I'm glad it's working great for you and I may just try it but I've just spent significantly more on a single waterstone so I can't right now. My wife already thinks I have too much equipment!
 
VicV;
Thanks for waking me up!
I will use names if I am going to answer a post, instead of doing a general spout.
(I have been a non active lurker so long i am learning this forum atmosphere as i go.)

I know what you mean about people being wary of heat/metal removal with a belt grinder.
(I use a 4x52" grinder on our 16" rubber knives, and unless I really bear down nothing changes color!)

Are you using a 2x72" like most knifemakers?

Also I see you are into kitchen knives and you have a waterstone...do you do ceramics?
(Just wondering about chipping vs sharpening.)

Can't find a broken one anywhere around my area to try, and didn't know if you actually raise a burr or mostly polish the edge?

Thanks!
Lil' John
 
Lil' John said:
VicV;
Thanks for waking me up!
I will use names if I am going to answer a post, instead of doing a general spout.
(I have been a non active lurker so long i am learning this forum atmosphere as i go.)

I know what you mean about people being wary of heat/metal removal with a belt grinder.
(I use a 4x52" grinder on our 16" rubber knives, and unless I really bear down nothing changes color!)

Are you using a 2x72" like most knifemakers?

Also I see you are into kitchen knives and you have a waterstone...do you do ceramics?
(Just wondering about chipping vs sharpening.)

Can't find a broken one anywhere around my area to try, and didn't know if you actually raise a burr or mostly polish the edge?

Thanks!
Lil' John
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you or not. I'm not a knife maker. Just a sharpener. I don't use a waterstone grinding wheel like some Japanese bladesmiths use even though it'd be awesome to have one. I use Japanese bench water stones. You can spend over $1000 on some. Mine was only a couple hundred but you get the idea. Even if I was a knifemaker I wouldn't make ceramic knives if that's what you're asking. No one really does but Kyocera. The tooling would cost millions to create them. Nor have I sharpened one but you'd need Diamond abrasives to sharpen them and no you can't raise a burr on ceramic knives. The material is just ground away until the bevels meet but no burr is formed as a burr is fatigued material and ceramic doesn't really become fatigued and it's so hard it doesn't move and shift like steel does. On the ceramic knife thing though I wouldn't suggest them. They're quite brittle and chip easily. Then you have to send back to the factory to have it fixed. A high quality steel knife will hold it's edge just as long or longer than a ceramic and when it does dull just sharpen it. I use a 1x42 belt grinder. The 2x72's are many times the price as are the belts and they don't really work all that well at sharpening as the 2" wide belt is much more difficult to be precise with. I hope I answered your questions and I'm sorry if we went a bit OT here
 
vicv, i have no problems using my 2x72 to sharpen a knife. a 1x will not do as good a job in my opinion for grinding a blade. a buddy has a 1x that he makes mora's with and i tell him he needs to get a 2x so he can have cleaner grind lines.

i think that john was asking you if you used ceramic stones.
 
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