paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

richard j said:
here is a busse ash that i am removing the burr from. macgregor22 is running the camera since thats his knife. http://www.myculpeper.com/rj/2008richardj4.wmv
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I noticed in this video that there are no slots cut in the wheel you are using. So which wheel where you using greased grit or white compounded slotted buffing wheel? My grit came on the wheel without slots in my set.

Thank you for addressing this question!

Doug
 
Is the RYOBI 6 In. Bench Grinder suitable or are there better grinders. I mean better in the way of variable speed or running at different set speeds. It seems the Sears model has variable speeds. What about the centre hole for the wheel what size is the Ryobi, do I need to get matching wheels. I noticed that only Grizzly sells different sizes.

Thanks very much.
 
richard j said:
it looks good to me. you didnt need to use scotchbrite to remove the wax since it wouldnt hurt anything. the wheel looks good to go but you might have it a little thick in spots. you'll learn how much wax to apply once you sharpen some knives.
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Richard, I think I might have also committed the beginners sin ;) of getting too much wax on the grinding wheel. Any suggestions? If it is not necessary to use scotchbrite or something to remove some, does that imply that it will just work itself out if I don't add more wax? Just looking at the wheel now, it does not look very gritty.

Thanks for the pointers. :)
 
ChapmanPreferred, i convexed the edge on the ash using my belt sander and i was polishing the edge with the paper buffing wheel. your polishing wheel should have came with slots. the grit wheel doesnt need any.
billl, i run my wheels at 1725 rpm which works just fine for me. its whatever you would feel comfortable using to start out with. i would go with the 8" set which is what i have. my set is 17+ years old and still going strong. the arbor size is either 1/2" or 5/8" but mike will make the arbor hole any size you might need but most arbors are 5/8". you can get adapters if the shaft is smaller.
fewpop, you really cant get too much wax on. it will just come off on the blade which wont hurt anything. it will come off during buffing. too much compound wont really hurt anything but not enough wont polish the edge well. if you have several knives (5-6) with burrs worked up and ready to buff, after buffing the 3rd knife check the wheel and see if it needs some compound. i usually make a pass from one side to the other and back with the compound. you can see it turn the wheel slightly white when there is enough. just start off with light pressure when applying the compound and see what it looks like. you'll eventually learn how much compound to apply and when to apply more. some knives like a busse will take more pressure to remove the burr which will require more compound. when i sharpened the chopper i made for brian jones and for sharp eye i had to press even harder to polish the edge which makes me glad the wheels are made from a hard paper.
 
richard j said:
fewpop, you really cant get too much wax on. it will just come off on the blade which wont hurt anything. it will come off during buffing.
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Thanks again Richard. I appreciate all the time and energy you put into sharing your experience here. :thumbup:

I've got some real sharp knives around the homeshack now. :)
 
Watching Mike Smith work the wax onto the grit wheel and the white rouge onto the buffing wheel was like watching a master at work. Just like Richard said a quick pass back and forth did it. When I overdid the wax it just came right off on the blade like Richard said. I imagine with a bit of practice it's easier, and with 17 years experience like Richard it is second nature.

Mike
 
Just a note that I have discovered that it's better to keep the blade straight and move it's location on the wheel to achieve different angles than it is to try to angle the blade and keep it in one spot on the wheel. I am still learning, but I get sharper blades with the method mike recommends.
 
thats more or less the same thing i do but from the backside of the wheel. i like watching the burr work up. i find it easier to keep the blade flat on the wheel this way too. if you have any scissors that you want to try sharpening i'll be glad to talk you through sharpening them. its not the same as sharpening a knife.
 
Right now I look straight down at the wheel, hold the knife vertical, and move along the wheel to hold my angle. I may end up reversing the grinder and watching my angle off of the top of the wheel and sitting instead of standing. I will concentrate on my current technique and see what happens. I am getting better at holding the angle, and about as thin as I could take the angle is 8-10 degrees (where I backbevel most of my knives, but not as thin as I take a few others) and it isn't too hard to go along at 10 degrees, 15 degrees, or 20 degrees by watching where you are putting the knife on the wheel. After 10 plus knives (many worked over several times) I'm getting better and breaking in my grit wheel. Forschner knives take really good edges, and the mystery Chinese steels vary in edge quality. I have found the supplied rouge to be better than the diamond spray on the slotted wheel, and would think any polishing compound for the finishing wheel would better be a block like the supplied rouge for easy application and cooling while getting rid of the burr.

After those 10 or so knives I am now getting even edge bevels and will sharpen my sister in law's Wustofs on them tomorrow and my parents old, completely edgeless set of AG Russell kitchen knives that got retired a year and a half ago. I feel confident in putting on a good 20 or so degree bevel on those at acceptable sharpness levels. My only issue now is making sure my grit wheel is properly broken in so no more black stuff coats up the burrs (which have a tad of wax on them). The slotted wheel is a bit black from that, but I hit it with rouge lightly before every knife so edge quality still seems good. It is amazing to me how I brought back a Forschner from no visible bevel to tree topping sharp in a minute yesterday, though I had to wash it good before throwing it in the block due I the black residue. These wheels are unreal in how cheap the investment is for a very high quality sharpener. On my pocket knives I will probably finish with the sub micron lapping films or strops (diamond spray or my standby 3M films, we'll see how they compare) for that ultra fine edge, as for some reason unless it is 100000 grit or finer it just doesn't feel finished to me when I pull it out of my pocket. The wheels will take save me so my time in getting to that point compared to using benchstones it is amazing though.

Mikeh
 
Take Richard up on his offer, he is a great guy and knows what he is talking about.

I got to meet Richard yesterday and received hands on instruction on sharpening with the paper wheels. He makes it look effortless and oh so easy, but guess what, IT IS EASY AND SOME WHAT EFFORTLESS!

He has some tricks up his sleeve and some techniques that I never would have thought of, or maybe learned through trial and error. I went from rubbing a stone on my blades like a neanderthal, to paper wheel spinning scary sharp blade glory in an afternoon!

Well really, I need to practice alot more once I get my wheels(Don't think for a minute that I wont be getting some) to get my technique refined after Richard instructing me.

Any one in Ohio that has the time to make it to Mechanicsburg owes it to themselves to get in touch with Richard and see if he's got his wheels spinning, or the sparks flying.

Chuck
 
Hello All,
Richard J ~ I have finished going through this thread wow! Glad I became a member!

I will be contacting Mike this week does he accept money orders? Also are the ones sold at Grizzly tools the same or are inferior?

For the belt sander method.. Where is a good place to buy a variety of 1x30 belts and what would be the varying micron grits needed.

Peace and Good Karma
Steel Talon:cool:
 
the wheels grizzly imports sells are the same so if you live close to one it might be better to pick up a set from there to save shipping. dave over at greatlakeswaterjet will be carrying the wheels for members after the blade show. if you plan on using a belt sander you dont need all the micron grits just to sharpen a knife. the buffing wheel will polish the edge which eliminates the need for a leather strop. the finest you will need is about 400 grit and the coarsest maybe a 180 grit for major nicks and chip removal. i dont have a 1" sander so i cant tell you the best place to get belts. as for money orders you have to talk to mike about that.
 
It is rare nowadays to find a product that lives up to what it advertises, however after buying and using this paper wheel system I have found it to deliver what it promises.

I have been researching sharpening systems for the last month, reading everything I could find on the forum and the internet in general. I decided to start with one of the cheaper options so I wouldn't be disappointed with a large investment and little satisfaction. I figured if this system didn't work for me I would move on to something else.

I received my paper wheel system on Saturday and went right to work to see if I could get my knives sharp as I like with it. I decided to start with a very cheap blade in case I ruined it and to see if this system could sharpen a less than quality blade. The blade was a $3.00 kit knife blade I got on Ebay.

I went to work on the grit wheel to establish an edge and raise a "burr" then moved to the polishing wheel to get my edge. My first attempt resulted in disappointment due to my failure to hold the blade at the proper angle and my inexperience with the wheels. I made another attempt at a different angle and got an unbelievably sharp edge on the blade. It was paper slicing, hair popping sharp! All after only 15 minutes practice!

I then proceeded to sharpen about a dozen various types of knives from my everyday use folder, to fixed blade hunters, and some kitchen knives. I was able to get incredibly sharp edges on everything I tried to sharpen!

I would definitely recommend this sharpener to anyone who is looking for a good inexpensive way to sharpen knives. It WORKS! Total cost with a new Harbor Freight Grinder to dedicate to the paper wheel system $99.00.

Now I just have to wait a week for all the hair to grow back on my arms so I can sharpen some more knives!
 
Ok here's my story. I bought a cheap set of wheels off the bay. They worked but not as great as I expected. So I went to a Woodcraft store and got a set of Razor Sharp wheels. Looking at the razor sharp wheels they just looked better then the cheapos and ran smoother.
I just tried the razor sharp wheels on a old Wustoff 7 inch carving knife and they put a shaving sharp edge on the knife with one pass on each side of the blade. I had been working off the top of the wheel but switched and worked off the bottom and for me I could see what I was doing with the contact and angles much better.
I can freehand sharpen but why should I when it so much faster with the wheels. Listen to Richard he knows what he is talking about and don't cut corners on cheap wheels.
KC
 
you can true up the cheap wheels and coat them with grit and use the good wheels for buffing the edges.
 
OK, I'm going to go ahead and sound stupid instead of staying stupid- when you all say "raise a burr on the grit wheel and then go to the buffing wheel to take it off" am I right in assuming you chase the burr from the other side first? In other words, raise the burr from both sides before moving on?

Also, I like convex edges, so if I understand, I will still need a belt grinder? Just out of curiousity, any idea why the wheels work better than belts?

It seems like the roundness of the wheel would give you a slightly hollow ground edge- is this true? If so, do you do anything about the shoulder this would give you?

Thanks for all the info already posted, Mike
 
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