pass-around contest!

If you're interested in this sort of thing, Have a look in

wilderness and survival skills subforum and enter the contest there
 
darrin sanders said:
Yes, I wanna be your competition. I would like to say that 1&1/4" wide steel wouldn't be my first choice for a camp/chopper but I will go with it anyway. I also prefer a full flat grind with a convex edge but I guess I can do a 20 degree bevel. I'd like to keep the H/T procedure to myself until the winner is chosen. I promise you that it wont take 11 days and wont include freezer cycles. All thermal cycling, hardening, and tempering will be done in one day. Let me knwo what you think.
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yes i agree but this is a all around knife not just a chopper. as for the heat treats sounds good at the end heat treats will be posted.
 
bluntcut said:
Right on:thumbup:

Also need a 'text book' heat treated blade serves as a baseline/control.
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i deffinantly like the idea of a third blade with text book heat treat or manufacturers reccomended heat treat. to see how much of a gain if any we get with our spethial heat treats lol.

anyone willing please let me know also the steel size needs to fit the criteria.
 
jawilder said:
I completely disagree. A chisel grind, hollow, convex, full flat, saber, scandi would ALL cut differently for different tasks. A hollow grind isn't even in the same ball park as a convex when chopping and the convex wouldn't be able to compete with a hollow grind when shaving.

A hollow grind might break or chip when chopping, but that doesn't mean the heat treat was bad, only that the geometry is not suited for it. It's not my test, but I would certainly suggest that everything is identical. You aren't testing which grind and tip shape works best, but which heat treat is best. For that, all things have to be identical. For that matter, you might want to grind two blades the same and send one to Darren to heat treat. That way you will know that both blades are equal except for the HT.
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i do not disagree. but this is also about the maker making a knife that he thinks can do all! not just heat treat. there is really nothing scientfic about this all tests are going to be peoples perception unless they have a machine that can do percise cuts and chopping.
 
jawilder said:
It's not my test, but I would certainly suggest that everything is identical. You aren't testing which grind and tip shape works best, but which heat treat is best. For that, all things have to be identical. For that matter, you might want to grind two blades the same and send one to Darren to heat treat. That way you will know that both blades are equal except for the HT.
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I think this is the best idea yet. Everything identical except the HT. Then we'll see who has the best heat treat method for 5160. I'd go one step further and suggest grinding a third identical blade and sending it to Peters for HT for a baseline.

I'm really surprised...okay, maybe not so much...that more of the scientific naysayers haven't jumped at this chance to prove how good their 'by the book' heat treating methods are.

But then again, not my test :) Waiting patiently to see how this one plays out!

12345678910 said:
If you're interested in this sort of thing, Have a look in

wilderness and survival skills subforum and enter the contest there
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Which one are you referring to? The one at the Spring Becker Gathering has already come and passed.
 
chad2 said:
i do not disagree. but this is also about the maker making a knife that he thinks can do all! not just heat treat. there is really nothing scientfic about this all tests are going to be peoples perception unless they have a machine that can do percise cuts and chopping.
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If that's the case then why do this at all? Why not let people who forge in? I thought this was to test ht not who designs a better knife. Your ht is whats in question I think a 3rd party should make two exact knives one with your ht and one with a traditional so it can be judged that way. There are way too many variables in what you are suggesting.
 
I'll agree with Jason, they need to be ground as close as possible to the same geometry, lets try and stick as close to the scientific method as possible. To me this is more of a learning exercise than a contest or "who's got the best".
 
Why not do three blades. One forged to the best of the forgers ability to make a similar blade design let him cycle the blade the way he see's fit , One with your heat treat and one with Darins heat treat seeing he has accepted the challenge.
 
Leethal Cutlery said:
If that's the case then why do this at all? Why not let people who forge in? I thought this was to test ht not who designs a better knife. Your ht is whats in question I think a 3rd party should make two exact knives one with your ht and one with a traditional so it can be judged that way. There are way too many variables in what you are suggesting.
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I will agree to this as long as darrin agrees we should be good. But that would mean we need to find some one willing to put in the time.
 
Marko3 said:
Why not do three blades. One forged to the best of the forgers ability to make a similar blade design let him cycle the blade the way he see's fit , One with your heat treat and one with Darins heat treat seeing he has accepted the challenge.
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I think if we did three blades it would be a manufacturers heat treat. Not a forged blade.
 
Leethal Cutlery said:
If that's the case then why do this at all? Why not let people who forge in? I thought this was to test ht not who designs a better knife. Your ht is whats in question I think a 3rd party should make two exact knives one with your ht and one with a traditional so it can be judged that way. There are way too many variables in what you are suggesting.
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I think it is a good idea to keep them exact
Will52100 said:
I'll agree with Jason, they need to be ground as close as possible to the same geometry, lets try and stick as close to the scientific method as possible. To me this is more of a learning exercise than a contest or "who's got the best".
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Yes I agree
 
This is starting to get complicated. How about to start with just make one, with a handle but not finely finished with hours of sandpapering? Send it out and let different makers test and play with it? But don't tell the heat treat or steel, just see how it performs? We could start out like that and see where it goes from there. Of course that may be lack of sleep talking, I know a side by side test would tell a lot more information.
 
Chad, whatever you decide on is fine with me. I can make a knife or H/T a blade for someone else. I don't want to test because I don't want anyone to feel like I gave an advantage to my knife or a disadvantage to someone else's. Just let me know. I also want to say that I think this is a good thing and hope people on both sides of the fence learn something.
 
I'm out. Broke a 1095 blade in brine trying to get a hamon. Have to start that one over.
 
darrin sanders said:
Chad, whatever you decide on is fine with me. I can make a knife or H/T a blade for someone else. I don't want to test because I don't want anyone to feel like I gave an advantage to my knife or a disadvantage to someone else's. Just let me know. I also want to say that I think this is a good thing and hope people on both sides of the fence learn something.
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I think this a good thing too . I would like to hear if the long process that Chad put in was just a one time fluke or if because he didn't have a knife with the much shorter process side by side to compare the two.
 
darrin sanders said:
Chad, whatever you decide on is fine with me. I can make a knife or H/T a blade for someone else. I don't want to test because I don't want anyone to feel like I gave an advantage to my knife or a disadvantage to someone else's. Just let me know. I also want to say that I think this is a good thing and hope people on both sides of the fence learn something.
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Just for sake of ease darrin , why dont we make our own knives but follow a pattern. Handle can be done as you want but it is easiest for me to do a chisel grind so lets do a chisel grind, drop point, 6 inch blade, flat ground, double sharpened edge not a chisel edge. Similar to the one I made for the video. No distale taper for sake of toughness.

This I think is going to be a lot of fun
 
chad2 said:
Just for sake of ease darrin , why dont we make our own knives but follow a pattern. Handle can be done as you want but it is easiest for me to do a chisel grind so lets do a chisel grind, drop point, 6 inch blade, flat ground, double sharpened edge not a chisel edge. Similar to the one I made for the video. No distale taper for sake of toughness.

This I think is going to be a lot of fun
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Sounds good to me, go ahead and send the steel whenever you're ready. I'm thinking a simple 220X belt finish on the blade and a low grit but comfortable finish on the handle. I'm thinking some type of Micarta for the handle. Also, please give me an actual delivery date so I'll know what kind of time frame I'll have to work with.

Thanks
 
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