PAYPAL and sellers

WHAT??? PayPal is in business to make money???
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PayPal's fees and policies are similar to other credit card processing companies. The only difference is PayPal targets the small-time seller who may only be making one credit card sale, and most of the others don't go after that kind of business. They all charge about the same fees and they all have the same policies of screwing the seller whenever convenient.
 
Sure they are but paypal isn't Amex or Visa and there is no regulation regarding paypal practices period. Last time I checked the latest CC reform didn't do anything to paypal... Just saying....








Cougar Allen said:
WHAT??? PayPal is in business to make money???
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PayPal's fees and policies are similar to other credit card processing companies. The only difference is PayPal targets the small-time seller who may only be making one credit card sale, and most of the others don't go after that kind of business. They all charge about the same fees and they all have the same policies of screwing the seller whenever convenient.
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I know I'm harping but just to clarify It's not the fees that really bother me it's the lack of regulation and level of expected service. There's a reason there a actual bank in the UK and regulated under banking code there and not here. I would just expect a company that processes 10% of all online transactions that equate to 300 billion or so to be regulated in terms of practices. I'll be quiet now.
 
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aj1985 said:
Sure is a weird way to look at it. You bought something and the seller sold something isn't this a transaction.

At the end of the day I guess everything can be interpreted in many different ways.

aj

p.s I always though the personal tab was for sending money to friends and family when they are in need or maybe a birthday or something.
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Are you saying the option "Payment Owed" is a gift or is money for someone in need? "Payment Owed" under the personal option is just what it is, you owe someone money for some reason. PP does NOT ask the reason you owe them, I do owe them because I have the knife in my hand.

If anyone can find a definition of "Payment Owed" , other than what I think let me know, this could be rent, car purchase from friend, etc. I stand by my decision, AGAIN, I NEVER ask a buyer to send it that way, neither do I ask for a discount from a seller if they include the fees.
MY OPINION, but I am not weird nor have ever been considered weird by friends or internet friends. Check out any of my 250+ ITrader transactions and see if I have ever abused PP.
Jim
 
ec9 said:
You guys can't honestly take the moral high road with paypal of all things. Let's face it paypal is raking in the cash and there hardly a company that cares about there customers.

They charge fees per transactions and then they collect interest on all your money that sits in your account; all while not having to be FDIC insured like a bank would have to be.

If banks could figure out a legal model to charge 4% per transaction and get away with it they would be in paypal heaven. At some point paypal and ebay are going to have to cough up the cash when some one spins a monopoly suit. Followed by the DOJ forcing them into regulation and further class action suits by the masses. It may be in 5-10 years but it's coming.

Paypal is not your honest corner store business. Last time I sold something on ebay they took fees for the auction and then for paypal. No it's not wrong but what a racket. Everyone uses it because its easy. Who wants to go back to sending money orders in our world of immediate gratification. Paypal played on it and won big but there shady at best the way they conduct business.

Especially some of these stories where there holding peoples funds and requiring them to fax in copies of there distributors list and where there supplers are etc. All while earning interest for 180 days before releasing these poor ebay sellers funds and wreaking there small biz they opened just for some extra cash to make ends meet.

I use them and I also eat the fees on sales but I don't mistake them for anything other than they are... A internet sharking service where they take the juice up front.
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Its actually very easy for me to take the moral high ground about PayPal, even though I also think they are a despicable company. Let me restate what I think you just said but in a different context: "It's OK to shoplift from the upscale stores that have really high prices."

No, it's not. If you think Tiffany charges too much for diamond earrings then buy them from Zales. If you think PP charges too much to process payments then don't use their services. Period.
 
elkins45 said:
Its actually very easy for me to take the moral high ground about PayPal, even though I also think they are a despicable company. Let me restate what I think you just said but in a different context: "It's OK to shoplift from the upscale stores that have really high prices."

No, it's not. If you think Tiffany charges too much for diamond earrings then buy them from Zales. If you think PP charges too much to process payments then don't use their services. Period.
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Agreed!
 
Except there is no competition per say such as Zales it's just Tiffanys and there running amuck. Valid point though and some do decide to get merchant accounts over paypal.... My main point again is regulation not necessarily the fees I take the fees for the convenience factor and live with it.

Let's just say you sold 12 or so knives on ebay and were payed via paypal. You weren't to worried about PP holding on to your money till you needed it(similar to how I view my banks) Except PP it turns out just had a forced corporate take over, there network blew up take your pick whatever.... So they file bankruptcy and close there doors in Enron fashion. All of a sudden you can't access your account and there is no one to call. Since they are not regulated or insured you and everyone else just lost. Well everyone in the US anyway our brothers in the UK are insured.

It's not as simple as comparing it to a jewelry store.
 
I will share my experience with the buyer "protection" that is covered with those paypal fees.

Last year I purchased a $400 item on another forum (non knife related) using the regular "payment for goods" option. The item never arrived and the seller even acknowledged he didn't ship it. He refused to refund me until I opened up a paypal dispute, which I did. Paypal ruled in my favor but by that point, the seller had withdrawn the money. Paypal told me that because there was no money in his account, they couldn't return my money and that they really couldn't do much else.

After that episode, I have had no moral problems accepting money via the personal option. It saves both parties a few bucks that would've gone to the buyer protection that doesn't really exist.
 
JatMat said:
Are you saying the option "Payment Owed" is a gift or is money for someone in need? "Payment Owed" under the personal option is just what it is, you owe someone money for some reason. PP does NOT ask the reason you owe them, I do owe them because I have the knife in my hand.

If anyone can find a definition of "Payment Owed" , other than what I think let me know, this could be rent, car purchase from friend, etc. I stand by my decision, AGAIN, I NEVER ask a buyer to send it that way, neither do I ask for a discount from a seller if they include the fees.
MY OPINION, but I am not weird nor have ever been considered weird by friends or internet friends. Check out any of my 250+ ITrader transactions and see if I have ever abused PP.
Jim
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Paypal states the below.

What are the payment types when I send money?

The payment types for a purchase are:

Services: to pay for things like your internet service.
Goods: to pay for non-eBay goods.
eBay Items: to pay for your eBay purchases.

The payment types for a personal payment are:

Gift: to send money as a gift, like for a birthday.
Payment Owed: to pay your friend back for your share of a dinner bill, or other item that your friend paid for you.
Living Expense: to pay for things like rent or utilities.
Other: for other reasons that are not a purchase of good or services.
 
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One of the posters up the list a way mentioned that stating that shipping and fees are included is, to put it a bit more civilly, not necessary. Though I've not sold many knives here nor anywhere, I do state that fees are included, not as a selling point, but because when I haven't, I've been asked whether the fees are included. I have nothing against USPS MO's, but dealing with the shortage of parking, waiting in line, then paying fees for the money order, maybe USPS priority delivery, and maybe tracking confirmation is much more of a hassle for me than the convenience and fees charged by PayPal. I recently had a purchase go bad here and PayPal did come through for me. It would be nice to see a standard mode of buying and selling here. After agreeing to buy a knife, I have been PM'd and informed of the additional PayPal and shipping fees.
 
simple6 said:
If it's such a small amount, why don't you pay it? Maybe you shouldn't be buying knives.

What a bunch of whiners. I offer buyers to pay via money order, if YOU choose to pay via PP then YOU can pay the fee.
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Money orders are no safer than PP gift.

PP gives both seller and buyer protection. Seller gets immediately and the buyer has some recourse if there is a problem.

As for PP fees, why not split them? That seems the fairest way to me.
 
If the seller is unknown to me, I always use my credit card with PayPal. When there is a problem, I dispute the charge w/ my credit card company. I've never failed to get my money back that way. The problem is the time limit w/ for credit card dispute. If you screw around w/ PayPal's process for too long, your window closes for the credit card dispute and you're truly screwed.
 
giant1 said:
Money orders are no safer than PP gift.

PP gives both seller and buyer protection. Seller gets immediately and the buyer has some recourse if there is a problem.

As for PP fees, why not split them? That seems the fairest way to me.
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Why split them?

As a seller, the user agrees explicitly to incur them on his, her or its sole cost.

It is in the user-agreement.

It is the cost of doing business with them.

Nothing says "I'll take it" like immediate payment, and if a 2.9% surcharge is your or my cost for being able to accept immediate payment, it's a very small price to pay for that convenience.

If folks do not like that, go get a merchant acct and see how much fun those are. Your per-transaction fee may or may not be higher, but you'll have a service fee of about $20 per month, and likely need to run a real business, complete with taxes, an accountant, an attorney, a real corporate tax return, etc.

Or just pay the 3% and suck it up.

I'm not singling you out by the way, this just seemed a logical place to rebut the entire idea that the seller can add a charge for the fees.

How about this - say for a moment that a seller makes a stink about the 3%. The proposed buyer goes to paypal and complains about it. Paypal can limit the seller's acct while they go back and check every transaction for a WHILE, and in the interim the paypal acct is locked. No money out, period.

Then the seller can possibly get dinked for each and every "add 3% for fees" and have his or her acct closed after that. It could take weeks, months....

Is this pain really worth 3%?

Suck it up, kids. Quit being lazy and if you want the 3% covered, then just incorporate it into your price, same as a real retailer.
 
I've never charged a fee. I hate money orders and would rather have my money NOW so I eat the fee to get payed faster and ship faster. never understood the adding a fee so you can get money faster :confused:
 
Parker said:
Why split them?

As a seller, the user agrees explicitly to incur them on his, her or its sole cost.

It is in the user-agreement.

It is the cost of doing business with them.

Nothing says "I'll take it" like immediate payment, and if a 2.9% surcharge is your or my cost for being able to accept immediate payment, it's a very small price to pay for that convenience.

If folks do not like that, go get a merchant acct and see how much fun those are. Your per-transaction fee may or may not be higher, but you'll have a service fee of about $20 per month, and likely need to run a real business, complete with taxes, an accountant, an attorney, a real corporate tax return, etc.

Or just pay the 3% and suck it up.

I'm not singling you out by the way, this just seemed a logical place to rebut the entire idea that the seller can add a charge for the fees.

How about this - say for a moment that a seller makes a stink about the 3%. The proposed buyer goes to paypal and complains about it. Paypal can limit the seller's acct while they go back and check every transaction for a WHILE, and in the interim the paypal acct is locked. No money out, period.

Then the seller can possibly get dinked for each and every "add 3% for fees" and have his or her acct closed after that. It could take weeks, months....

Is this pain really worth 3%?

Suck it up, kids. Quit being lazy and if you want the 3% covered, then just incorporate it into your price, same as a real retailer.
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Actually for the most part I see it your way so I tend to agree with you.......

I just think that splitting the fees seems like a reasonable way to go given that both parties are covered to some degree when going through paypal. In the end as you say 2.9% is not the end of the world and can be borne by either party without too much drama.
 
I just do it very simply.

$$$$ includes shipping/insurance/paypal to US or Canada

So much less hassle. Time is precious and life is short. :)

- Time in the car
- Line at the post office
- Envelope and stamp
- Buy a money order
- Wait for it to get there
Blah Blah blah

Send paypal and get you're stuff shipped to you and enjoy it. :)

aj
 
Parker said:
Why split them?

As a seller, the user agrees explicitly to incur them on his, her or its sole cost.

...

Suck it up, kids. Quit being lazy and if you want the 3% covered, then just incorporate it into your price, same as a real retailer.
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Splitting them would mean adding 1.5% of your desired revenue to the price instead of 3%.
 
I used to price my stuff (in my gun dealer days) to cover the fees my bank charged on CC transactions, then offer a 5% cash discount. :-)
 
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