Perfect survival gun?

This thread is really interesting. Clearly it's been established that the old standby's (22LR, 12ga and BP) are all viable and versatile. The over-under guys have a couple options in current production. And the magnum pistol/carbine guys chimed in, too; I was waiting for that :) My point is any of these solutions would work pretty well and it really comes down to personal preference and budget.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that in "an Oh S*#@ your gonna get outa dodge and make due." type situation, I'd want a 22/410 O/U set up like in the article linked above, and a web belt with my Trailmaster, a couple canteens of clean water and a buttpack with first aid, fire starting stuff, cordage, etc. Given a chance I'd grab a tarp and sleeping bag too, of course. If I made it out of the city limits I'm pretty confident that would carry me through.
 
Beckerhead,

No I am not at all close, I am from GA and we have plenty of feral hogs. I think the idea of the 357 is a good one, simple action, doesn't use much powder and lead, and effective on game.
 
Back in the late 1990's Backwoodsman Magazine had a writer named "Medicine Knife" This guy wrote some great articles and from them you got the idea that he was the real deal and knew what he was talking about. He made a great case for the single shot .22LR as the ideal survival gun for many of the same reasons discussed in this thread. He emphasized woodcraft, stalking and tracking skills. Be a hunter not just a shooter. Indians all over North America have harvested all size of game with a .22. AND PRACTICE. Beware the man with but one gun and all that. His knife? A Western Cutlery Bowie.
 
I have hunted for many years. Comparatively recently (maybe 12 years ago) I started experimenting seriously with home-made bows and arrows. When I am really serious about getting results I prefer to take a rifle whenever possible. But I have had success with the bow.

My bowhunting has made me realize how good a .22 is. With anything, bullet or arrow placement is the most important thing. I realize now how easy it is to hit something with a .22 compared to an arrow. Although I can use open sights quite well, I now use a scope quite a bit. I used to shun scopes as an unreliable liability...something that could get knocked out of alignment, or have to go away for expensive repairs. But now I realize that they have their advantages, particularly in poor light. You look through it, steadily place the crosshair over what you want to hit, and squeeze the trigger.... dang bullet hits the spot nearly every time !! I sighted in the scope on my Anschutz at least two years ago, and it is still spot-on. But I still use vee or aperture sights quite often (I like simple things).

I have rifles in larger calibers, but I like using a .22 - preferably with subsonic ammo and a supressor. I have killed a goodly quantity of feral goats and pigs with this humble cartridge. I do not recommend this tiny projectile as "all you need" for larger game by any means. But sometimes it is innappropriate to carry or fire a large gun... or maybe you simply don't have one at the time.

One huge advantage of a .22 is that it is a heck of a lot quieter than many other options. If you don't have a silencer, you can still have a fairly quiet set-up using subsonic cartridges.

And of course you could use a simple plastic bottle for a supressor to reduce the noise a bit.

Here is a picture of a soda bottle attached to a tomahawk handle to give an idea of how you can quickly rig a silencer on to a .22. The first shot makes the hole through the bottom of the bottle, which can then be enlarged with a knife if you think it is necessary. The barrel enters the bottle through a slit in the side which is only just big enough to stretch around the barrel. The neck of the bottle is then pulled up under the barrel and tied into place.

SodaBottleOnStick.jpg
 
Well I've been reading this post and must admit it has been very interesting. I don't think I'm going to run into a moose since I live in Kansas so I'm not too concerned about a really large cal. rifle for survival purposes. I know I will run into a deer since they are like mice on the barn floor at night. Lots of rabbits, squirrels, possum, racoon, fox, and a lost coyote now and then, and a host of other ground varmits plus all kinds of birds many of them being the game type. For many of us you would have to choose your rifle based upon where you live. If you live way down south you might want to tie some 8 lb. test on the end of it with a bobber and a worm (this is survival). I guess my choice is the Savage over under 22/410. The reason being you can get 410 with a slug or shot. I think that's what makes me lean to the savage --- --slugs shot or rifle.
 
Looks like you can get it in a 20 ga and a variety of rifle cal. So you could have a 20 ga. shotgun with shot or slugs and a 22 LR. Nice combo-- now all you need is hunting skills and animals.


Savage-------Model 24F-20 Combo Rifle/Shotgun
Caliber
20 GA, chambered for 3" shells. 22 LR, 22 Hor, .223 Rem; 17 HMR
Overall Length
40.5"
Barrel Length
24"
Weight
8 lbs.
Stock
Black synthetic with positive checkering.
Sights
Adjustable notched rear sight/bead front/B-Square™ mount included.
Rifling Rate of Twist
22 L.R. (1 in 14")
22 Hor. (1 in 14")
223 Rem. (1 in 14")
17 HMR (1 in 9")
Features
Over/under rifle shotgun combination, top break action, ambidextrious opening lever, two-position cross-bolt safety, scope mount, and swivel studs. 20 GA barrel choked for modified.
Suggested Retail
$660.00
 
Just picked up a New England Arms Handi Rifle in 30 30 for $170. Sure has the look of a survival gun to me. Here in rural PA this and a .22 pistol covers most bases.
 
Here is another idea. Buy a Thompson G2 Contender Pistol and get 2 barrels. One with 22 LR and another that shoots 45 Long Colt and 410 shotgun. That would work.
 
Midwest 7's said:
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html

i cant believe all this talk on survival guns and this one hasnt been brought up.
i personally own one in 22lr and it is a tack driver. lightweight and easy to handle and at $200 you cant go wrong!!
Click to expand...

An interesting article on an interesting combo gun MW7. Of course I would do it differently, as we probably all would, but one thing struck me as queer. The mount point for the forward sling swivel puts the muzzle below your head and shoulder. Dayum I'd hate to shoot myself in the head with that sucker! I've seen some riot guns carried that way, and wonder how many accidents happen from such an arrangement. Well, each to his own I guess. QD barrel band swivel bases are cheap though.

Codger
 
First let me say I would be happy to have any gun if I ever get into a survival situation.- And muzzleloaders worked and still do.
If I have a choice I would take a sxs double shotgun with external hammers.
A .22 would be my second choice for sure and whenever I could I would
team both.
Here were I live it could be 12gauge or 16 gauge, both are common in Europe. External hammers, cause this way you have 2 independent working locks - for the case a part breaks you still have a working gun.
Personaly I own a old Baikal sxs 16gauge, barrels shortend to 18 inches
which shoots point of aim with both barrels -I am able to hit a 10 inch square with both barrels out to a 100 yards . You can get all kinds off Barrel inserts from 22lr to .222 Remington for it. Even one for .38 Special is available.
I would take is as it is, carry a dozen slugs and twice as many shotcartriges.
This would be plenty for any realistic survival situation and would provide you with enough food and personal protection to get back to civilisation.
The point of shotgun ammo beeing to heavy is in my opinion overrated, any long term survival situation is very unrealistic and for that case you better know how to trapp,fish or make a bow and hunt with it.
Most survival stories I ever heard off were when people got lost and had to find a way back.
When you do that you don`t hunt, it is a waste of energy. What you do is to move and if you, while walking, get a chance to make prey you do it.
How much ammo do you need for a month or two? -Certainly not much more than 20 or 30 rounds.
A shotgun gives you peace of mind in most situation and will protect against any creature and it can feed you with every creature as it has done ever since.
There are maybe a couple survival scenarios were another weapon would be
better, but, lets say someone would drop you in an unknown spot somewere on this pretty planet--- what would you take??In most case you would be better of with a shotgun than a .22.
I wouldn´t like to be in the african bush or in alaska with just a .22! (certainly it would be nice to have a .22 Handgun going with the shotgun.)
For the -very theoretical- situation of the end of days the black powder Flintlock might become a viable option, as said before blackpowder is easy to make and after years it might be not possible any more to get modern ammo.
 
I have a Baikal single-barrelled gun in 12 guage. I like its simplicity. My brother has a Baikal single-shot in 7.62X39 which is very nice indeed.

You are right Nymikel64, when you say that you don't need much ammo to last a month or two in the wilderness. And I agree that a knowledge of trapping is very important when it comes to feeding yourself. In any long-term survival situation where you are "living rough", you cant count on your gun and ammo to last forever.

I was interested to read about the ability of your gun to hit a ten inch square at 100 yards. What sights have you got, and what loads were you shooting?

Thanks in advance... Coote.
 
The place of the gun in most survival situations is overrated. Aside from signalling most realistic scenarios of 72 hours or so don't require a gun. Only in long term survival MAY a gun become a factor. Like others have said, trapping, fishing and foraging are much more effective ways of food acquisition than hunting. What hunting is done is mostly opportunistic. Checking traps, trotlines or answering nature's call is often when the game is seen. That gun better never be left at camp. In all the survival course tests,
scenarios presented, pick 10 items out of a list and rank them as to usefulness, etc. the gun is way down the line of important gear.
 
I guess it all depends upon what you are trying to survive and where. If the economy tanked, I could easily harvest enough wild game to feed my family and to barter with. My father and grandfather did it with an old musket, silk petticoats, five pounds of DuPont and ten of galina. They lived close to the land as I do now. Bagging a North American whitetail deer is no big feat for a practiced hunter. One a week would leave a lot of leisure time, or time to tend to crops or other chores. Sure, supplimenting with fish, small game etc. would be great, but I typically butcher three to six deer a year, no problem. One every two weeks would help feed my family, one a week would keep us in company.

Codger
 
Codger, What you describe is the kind of long term survival that sure does require the gun. Call it bush living not survival. Survival as we usually think of it is temporary. Wait for rescue.. that sort of thing. When it goes full time the requirements certainly change. Now the gun question makes sense. I agree with you. When the chips are down a real hunter, living "close to the land" with a musket beats a flatlander with Cabela's latest nylon stocked whatever every time.
 
Whether its long term survival or bush living, a .22 rifle is hard to beat. I remember reading the autobiagraphy of Audie Murphy, and his dirt poor childhood in Texas durring the depression. He would feed his family with an old .22 single shot rifle, rabits, squirrels, doves sitting. One day in the woods he saw a doe standing there. He took a long time stalking close, but he got the deer with one shot in the head. They had a old shed they used as a smokehouse, and that deer fed them well. At 12 years old young Audie would be picking cotton doing odd jobs to get money to buy .22 ammo to feed the family.

Its been alot of years since I read the book, and I can't recall why there did not seem to be a father around and why a 12 year old boy was the head of the family.

I know my own childhood on the eastern shore of Maryland was among watermen. They did not have alot of money, but food came from the water as well as your living. So you did not want to eat more than you absolutely need from your catch. But every house had two guns that got game food. A single barrel break open shotgun, usually a Stevens for some reason, and an old well used .22 rifle. Both were used to put ducks, rabbits, squirrels, and deer on the table. Game laws were not paid too much attention too when it came to feeding ones family. Ducks were shot sitting on the water with a .22 and scooped into the boat to save the more expencive shotgun ammo.

When dad moved us to the outer edge of Washington D.C. after WW2 for his job, he took the .22 and a shotgun with us because he said "you never know". Dad was a believer in the .22 as a general us gun.
 
The M6 or some similar version as mentioned by Midwest 7's would be an excellent temporary survival gun. Especially versions that have .22 Hornet for for the rifle barrel.
 
Pop never talked about it much but Grandma said that during the great depression Pa would bring in several squirrels or rabitts a day with his .22 and they were always welcome additions to the pot.
He taught me to shoot one at a time and I'm confident that I could live more than a month with a single box of .22 and a medium acurate rifle.
Enjoy!
 
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