Perfect survival gun?

You may want consider that a survival firearm should be something different for animals for the pot and for defensive use against humans. For the pot, I like a bolt action 22 rifle. For social unrest, probably an automatic rifle in 223/5.56 or a 12ga shotgun. In one case you are living off the land so to speak and it the other you are defending your family and home from people intent on taking whatever you might have or hurting you or yours.
 
OK, the perfect survival gun for me would be:

A 5 or 6 pound .308 boltaction, with a scope. Ordinary full strength softpoints for big game, along with plenty of reduced loads for small game.

A silencer would be nice, but not legal here.
 
Great topic.

I looked back at the title and it contained the word "perfect", wow, I think we have established there is no "perfect" , but there are some good choices.

The M6, mentioned above was purpose built with the intent on survival, good choice.

I like Runningboar talking about his home state, it brings to light exactly where he is most likely to be in a survival situation, and also what he may face (feral pigs vs. grizzly bear).

I see breaking this topic down into some distinct sub-sets:

Long Term or Short Term? LT , ST
Wilderness or Social/Urban Disaster W or UD (Urban disaster)

Urban disaster is also referred to as when the STUFF hits the fan (SHTF)

Whatever the Survival situation, it calls for dealing with what you actually have on hand, and the situation itself. I travelled across the entire US one summer, camping and visiting many national parks. I could only take one firearm (and keep it well hidden while in the US parks). I chose my trusty Ruger 77/22 bolt action and a brick of Winchester T-22. The weakest link was the Optics (scope). Yes, scopes are durable, but drop it on a rock, and it can become worthless. The .22LR wouldn't have done a lot about an angry Grizzly bear, but, it's better than nothing.

In an Urban SHTF/ get outta dodge/ protect your life type of situation the first 24 to 72 hours is critical. That is when you will meet up with anything from gangs, or even hillbilly desparados blocking the country roadways, even right up to a bear you find at your temporary camp the 1st or 2nd night out. After making sure you have Water and Shelter, then your mind will turn to food gathering.
For the SHTF situation, I see myself always grabbing my AR15 and as much 5.56 as I can carry. In North America, defending yourself against another human (a bad guy) is the most serious siuation you will ever encounter, short of a Grizzly or Polar Bear attack. And even in the wilds, you will run up against more humans, than Bears. I've run across people in the dammdest of places, where you think you are 10 miles from the next living thing, and there they are, squatting by a little smoke belching campfire, or hiking the next ridge over. With 6 billion of us, Humans are the cockroaches of the earth.

I do like the .22LR and the 20 or 12 ga. shotgun, don't get me wrong.

But I find myself grabbing for the semi-auto .223. and partly because it's what I know the best.

I fire my sidexside 12 ga. at the range once in a while, but, I'm not confident enough with it take down prey and predators, although it's pretty intimidating when it comes to other humans looking down those twinpipes. :)

My 30.06 weighs about 11 lbs, too heavy, too powerful, you aren't taking down a rabbit or squirrel and finding more than a foot or 1-inch peice of fur left.

My Ruger 10/22 is set up as a silhouette gun, scoped with heavy barrel, would still work, but the optics bother me, a lot. The scope gets damaged, and you are screwed, blued and tattoed. A standard Ruger 10/22 is near the top of my list.

For all around Long Term survival, go with iron sights, lightweight, and a caliber that is readily available. You would be able to trade food or water for some .22LR ammo, as it will be fairly universal. Trying to find someone who has .379 Weatherby Magnum or dry FFG powder may be another story.

If you run across an abandoned house, what is the most likely round you will find in the closet or on a shelf? .22LR
 
The only way that I would leave my home in a SHTF situation is if a biologic, chemical, or radiological weapon is used (or if it is destroyed). I don't live in a hurricane prone area, but tornados are always a possibility. Otherwise, stay put as you probably have far more resources available to you in the home than hunkered down in some tent or shelter on the side of a mountain somewhere. Consider what transportation is available to you that does not involve the use of gasoline (bicycles, canoe, row boat). A garden cart may be your your best friend. You may need to forage.

I agree with your point about open sights on a 22 rifle. Choosing the favored target rifle may not be the best choice. In this case, perhaps the Ruger 10/22 may in fact be one of the better choices in a 22LR gun. I lean toward tubular magazines as they are more dependable. But "clips" are quicker if you need multiple loads or if you run into the human problem.

Where the human element is the dominant concern, the semi-223 would be hard to beat. Having the rifle is not enough for an organized gang though. You just get killed. You have to band together with neighbors with a common resolute purpose for the general defense of all. hummmm... a government within a government
 
Great conversation. Jump on amazon or half.com and grab a copy of Mel Tappan's "Survival Guns", Mel was probably the most listened to survival writer in the 1970's, a period with a sense of uncertainty not unlike today. He wrote for Soldier of Fortune and Guns and Ammo as well as writing several books. "Survival Guns" is thorough, complete and Mel makes his case eloquently. Also Buckshot Hemming of Buckshot's Camp has a great article on the topic. The question of gun for the pot vs. a gun for protection is not just about guns but about one's perception of what awaits us if society erodes further.
 
Rimfire, I agree with 100% of what you said.

The decision to leave , 'bug out' , for good, is a very serious one.
Even if my home were destroyed I have more goodies in my shed that would help me much better, than hitting the road with very limited supplies.
In fact, with some plastic tacked onto the walls, The shed is a decent shelter, better than sleeping on the ground outdoors!

The point about the neighbors is very good one, also.
 
22-rimfire said:
Having the rifle is not enough for an organized gang though. You just get killed. You have to band together with neighbors with a common resolute purpose for the general defense of all. hummmm... a government within a government
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50,000 thousand years ago early man banded together in cave dwellings for mutual support and saftey. We may be technoligicly more advanced that the neolithic man, but our nature is the same. Its human nature to band together if things look dicey. Its in our genes.

A person on his own will not make it in the long run, thats why man formed the first villiges, then towns. Even the mountain man had a whole support network in place with suppliers and rondevous to keep him going.
 
jackknife said:
A person on his own will not make it in the long run...,.
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This would definately be true of some people, but not everyone. Japanese soldiers from 1945 continued to appear and surrender well into the 1970's-1980's

jackknife said:
Even the mountain man had a whole support network in place with suppliers and rondevous to keep him going.
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Yes, you are speaking of the "Company Men" who worked on contract for the Eastern fur companies. It was not so for the "freetrappers" who, while they did emerge once a year or so to trade furs for supplies, spent most of their time alone or with only one or two other trappers, maybe a friendly tribe to winter over with, but by and large they were pretty self sufficient. Of course, that was really only a few years in it's heyday, mid 1820's thru the early 1840's.

Codger
 
Codger_64 said:
This would definately be true of some people, but not everyone. Japanese soldiers from 1945 continued to appear and surrender well into the 1970's-1980's
Codger
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Having read the book about Lt. Hiroo Onada, he was not alone. He had a number of soldiers with him, and they died off over the course of thirty years, from disease, and gunshots of the villigers they were stealing from to stay alive. He was only on his own for a short number of years. But they had to resort to raiding remote villages for manufactored goods.
 
woodsmoke said:
Great conversation. Jump on amazon or half.com and grab a copy of Mel Tappan's "Survival Guns", Mel was probably the most listened to survival writer in the 1970's, a period with a sense of uncertainty not unlike today. He wrote for Soldier of Fortune and Guns and Ammo as well as writing several books. "Survival Guns" is thorough, complete and Mel makes his case eloquently. Also Buckshot Hemming of Buckshot's Camp has a great article on the topic. The question of gun for the pot vs. a gun for protection is not just about guns but about one's perception of what awaits us if society erodes further.
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So what does Mel recommend?
 
jackknife said:
50,000 thousand years ago early man banded together in cave dwellings for mutual support and saftey. We may be technoligicly more advanced that the neolithic man, but our nature is the same. Its human nature to band together if things look dicey. Its in our genes.

A person on his own will not make it in the long run, thats why man formed the first villiges, then towns. Even the mountain man had a whole support network in place with suppliers and rondevous to keep him going.
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Yup; millions of years of human evolution have shaped us to the point where we're wired to operate in comfotably small family groups. Platoons. Or motorcycle gangs.

The stereotype of the heroic loner is just Hollywood bunk. Everybody has to sleep, and you'll get more and better sleep if you have a trusted friend or family member guarding you while you sleep. The more sets of hands the better. One of the best things to have along in any survival situation are some competent fellow survivors.

The deadliest predator on earth is a dozen hungry humans with pointy sticks. Sabertooth tigers? Dire wolves? Cave bears? Extinct; they just could not compete with us.
 
22-rimfire said:
I agree with your point about open sights on a 22 rifle. Choosing the favored target rifle may not be the best choice. In this case, perhaps the Ruger 10/22 may in fact be one of the better choices in a 22LR gun. I lean toward tubular magazines as they are more dependable. But "clips" are quicker if you need multiple loads or if you run into the human problem.
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I'd be inclined to agree with you. I picked up a 10/22 a little while ago; a wood/blued carbine. I plan on leaving it stock (except for the addition of some of those Butler Creek 25-round magazines). It's a great little gun.
 
An invaluable addition to the Ruger 10/22 or any other .22 survival rifle is a Williams Foolproof peep sight. The peep is faster to get a target aquisition, and is better in dim/low light situations.
 
rdelloit, Mel was all about retreating to a rural community for many of the reasons the last few posts have discussed. He was about the right gun for the job. Mel didn't pick one all around gun for the woodsrunner because he beleived that the lone evader, woodsman, wilderness retreater was doomed in a long term situation. So he wrote of the retreater's arsenal. What is valuable with regard to this discussion is his evaluation of rifles, shotguns, assault rifle and pistols and their utility in a survival situation.
 
MSgt said:
12 Ga for me and .22LR for my wife.
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Now that's a heck of a point... those of us with a spouse and/or kids old enough to handle a gun have a huge advantage. My girlfriend won't go near a 12ga, but she's quite comfortable with a 22 or small handgun. hmmm..... there must be some kind of excuse for me to buy "her" a 10/22 :)
 
Nothing wrong with having several 22 rifles or handguns around. I am always looking at 22 rifles at gun shops. Just can't seem to control myself.

Interesting thread and fun. There are few threads that I have read every single posting, but this is one.
 
Growing up in WV, my dad used to give me 1 bullet and the single shot bolt action .22 to go hunting. Not because we were poor, but you would be amazed how you wait for that "perfect chance" to get that one shot off. He was trying to make me a better hunter.
 
My survival situation gun is a 92 beretta, I have a few .45's but i choose the beretta for accuracy and ease of shooting (in my case, im best with this gun) I have never done any type of black powder shooting so i would be totally inept with a black powder gun.
 
Midwest 7's said:
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html

i cant believe all this talk on survival guns and this one hasnt been brought up.
i personally own one in 22lr and it is a tack driver. lightweight and easy to handle and at $200 you cant go wrong!!
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I did bring this up, and with good reason: this was tailor-made for the type of situational requirements one would be in during a survival scenario. Maybe not a be-all, end-all gun, but very usefull none the less, and Old Jimbo has some good info on the weapon.
 
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