Pistol/dagger project

i think the biggest thing people are interested in is the gun parts. personally if i were to get the designs (i would have to really get off my butt and and start working on some again to justify it) i would be more interested in the gun aspect as apposed to the exacts on your knife part (still would like to see the info but more as just seeing the specs and the way you did it as apposed to try and use it to make a replica)

for the publishing im not sure if there was one specific one my brother was talking about but a google search of "publish on demand" yields a lot of results but i will check with him to see if there is a specific one he was using
-matt
 
This is comming along nicely!! :thumbup:

Couple questions for ya, what steel do you use for the barrel, how thick, and do you HT it??

Do you have a jig to set everything 'on center' or just wing it & get it close??

Black powder or Pyrodex?

Of course, we'll need a pic 'in use'!!! :D:D Can't wait to see 'r done!! :cool:
 
Bruce - could you address the issue, the legal issue, of making 'guns'. Do you have to have an FFL?? I've been told that you can make them for your own use, but it's illegal to sell or give them away. Could you recommend any books or web site where one can learn about making black powder guns?? It could be a big discussion - what one can and can't legally do. I don't want to detract from the informative strain of this thread - and your work is beautiful - maybe a seperate thread should be started to discuss this.
Regards,
Jacque
 
Deweyknives said:
This is comming along nicely!! :thumbup:

Couple questions for ya, what steel do you use for the barrel, how thick, and do you HT it??

Do you have a jig to set everything 'on center' or just wing it & get it close??

Black powder or Pyrodex?

Of course, we'll need a pic 'in use'!!! :D:D Can't wait to see 'r done!! :cool:
Click to expand...

I use mostly 1018 and use a rifled liner from Brownells when I make a .22 caliber. On this one its a smooth bore .25 cal and I used just plain old mild steel (1018). It is possible it will blow up when I proof it and will need to be replaced. The wall thickness is about .125" in the thinnest place. Hey its this kind of thing that makes it exciting!:eek: To proof the barrel I will overload it by at least 25%. Black powder is tame until it gets a heavy bullet or an extra thick patch and the bullet it forced extraordinarily hard down the bore so proofing is needed for saftey. Pyrodex is the new black powder and works good with less corrosiveness.

I used the mill to drill the bore on the barrel and centered it by the bore on the lathe. I milled the mounting tab on the barrel and used a keyway saw on the gun frame to make the slot it drops into. I use blue layout fluid and scribe the centerlines with a caliper. Its not as accurate as using a DRO (digital read out) but works if I put my optivisors on and use a flash light to see my lines.
 
jacqueeagonsr said:
Bruce - could you address the issue, the legal issue, of making 'guns'. Do you have to have an FFL?? I've been told that you can make them for your own use, but it's illegal to sell or give them away. Could you recommend any books or web site where one can learn about making black powder guns?? It could be a big discussion - what one can and can't legally do. I don't want to detract from the informative strain of this thread - and your work is beautiful - maybe a seperate thread should be started to discuss this.
Regards,
Jacque
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Jacque, good question and one Im often asked. Anybody can legally make muzzleloading guns and sell them or give them away. The key word is "muzzle-loading". If you make any other loading method even if it uses black powder it cant be sold or given away unless you have a Federal Firearms Licence. This one may be questionable as it looks like another weapon (dagger) but the barrel is unmistakable and so is the hammer, trigger and curved handle. Nothing is hidden about the gun parts.
 
Bruce Bump said:
I never have made one to keep. Someday I want to though, I just cant seem to get ahead on them because they take so much time. So far each one has been a "One of a Kind" so each and every part has to be re-invented and my learning curve is slow to develop.

On this one I'm seriously considering having a working blueprint made and sell the plans to anybody who would like to make their own. I wonder if I would sell enough copies to make it worthwhile? Not many smiths make guns from scratch but if they have a milling machine and a small lathe they can make one for themselves. I want to change it on the blueprint so the blade will be separate. The blade alone could be heat treated and could be made longer, shorter, high carbon, damascus etc. The frame can also be damascus. The combinations are endless.
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bruce...thanks for the answer.....so is there one in particular that u have made that you said"man i wish i could keep this one for myself"......what would your gun look like....any ideas?....once again i have to say how cool these works in progress are.....it really gives an insight into all of the work time and skill involved in these types of knives and guns.....ryan
 
ryan9977 said:
bruce...thanks for the answer.....so is there one in particular that u have made that you said"man i wish i could keep this one for myself"......what would your gun look like....any ideas?....once again i have to say how cool these works in progress are.....it really gives an insight into all of the work time and skill involved in these types of knives and guns.....ryan
Click to expand...

This is my favorite so far.
orig.jpg

Its called "DEADWOOD" and has an assisted blade opener, Pre ban ivory, Jere Davidson engraving and gold wire inlays, Doug Turnbull charcoal bluing and color case hardening, adjustable hammer spring, ram rod in pommel and is stored in a leather bound book entitled "DEADWOOD" by Bruce D Bump
It has 2 ivory handled screw drivers, a silver bullet box, custom powder flask and a deck of cards from the 1800s. Its the sweetest thing I ever made. I do miss it but I am working on another called "The Vegas Special" that will take my mind off of it when its finished.
 
The title of that book should be GUNKNIFE PORN BY BRUCE BUMP lol :) . Very cool to see this come together Bruce, sort of takes away a bit of the intimidation of thinking about a project like this. WELL, atleast as far as the mechanics of it goes, once you start putting on your flair and style to it then it's time to go cry in the shop again hehe.
 
Dear GAWDS!!!

That is incredible!

I've been quietly following this thread, but just had to chime in at this point! your work sir, is unbelievable, and I am in complete awe!
 
You know having been around this forum for so long, its almost as much fun to see people's reactions the first time they see Bruce's work, as it is to see the incredible stuff he makes :D

Keep up the incredible work Bruce. Its threads like this that keep me checking in :cool:
 
Bruce, thank you for posting this thread, your work and imagination is second to none, but when I saw the picture of "Deadwood" I almost passed out. Incredible !!!

I looked like this fella when I saw it
thfaint.gif
 
Bruce, DEADWOOD is a beautiful piece of work! The stuff you are coming up with is just amazing!
 
I appreciate all the compliments on my work. Thanks guys!

OK I told you if I screw up the whole world will see, well I milled a couple spots on the barrel and didnt like the looks of it besides they looked like a weak spot so I had the college heli-ark them closed and I reground the barrel in those two spots. If you scroll back you will see what Im talking about. Anyway Im happy now and am sure it is safer also.
100_0947_edited.jpg

Here is the barrel after the welding
100_0951_edited.jpg

Grinding off the excess welds
100_0955_edited.jpg

milling a groove at the base of the barrel with a round nose mill end.
 
100_0969_edited.jpg

Hand rubbing the 5" bevels. Tomarrow is another day. Next comes modifying the front bolsters. Dang that one is blurry.
Thanks for tuning in
 
Bruce Bump said:
Jacque, good question and one Im often asked. Anybody can legally make muzzleloading guns and sell them or give them away. The key word is "muzzle-loading". If you make any other loading method even if it uses black powder it cant be sold or given away unless you have a Federal Firearms Licence. This one may be questionable as it looks like another weapon (dagger) but the barrel is unmistakable and so is the hammer, trigger and curved handle. Nothing is hidden about the gun parts.
Click to expand...

Bruce, not to come off as an A**, but, I'm afraid you are mistaken about some things.
Any person who can own a firearm, can make a firearm. You are allowed to transfer the firearm to another person, but there are a few requirements you must meet to do so. Please see BATFE regs. for the specifics.
I believe what you mean by "another weapon" is actually "any other weapon", or AOW for short. Knife/gun combos fall under this classification. A person can build an AOW, however it requirers a $200 transfer tax be paid to the .Gov and various pieces of paperwork approved be and sent to the BATFE before you can build the firearm. Even an AOW can be transfered to another person, if the proper paperwork and procedures are followed.

The key point I want to make about your post and your build itself is that, a muzzle loader is not considered a firearm. Muzzle loaders are not regulated by the BATFE. You can buy one over the internet and have it sent to your house without any paperwork. So, you build is perfectly OK in the eyes of the .Gov. However, state laws might be different, depending on where you live.

1. ATFE says you CAN transfer a homebuilt firearm. You must NOT have made it with the intent to transfer it, but once you have made it, you may sell or dispose of it the same as any other firearm of that class (handguns subject to handgun laws, Title II guns subject to NFA, etc.). It is EXACTLY the same as if you bought a "factory" gun and decided to get rid of it. As long as your intent when you got it was "for personal use", you can later dispose of it.
Caveat -- Before you transfer it, you must mark the receiver of a homebuilt Title I (i.e., "normal gun" type you could buy across the counter at an FFL with a Form 4473) firearm with the same markings that would be required if you were making and registering a homebuilt Title II (NFA-controlled firearm) gun. Homebuilts DO NOT (under federal law) require ANY markings as long as the MAKER retains them -- unless they are registered as NFA guns. That means you can mark the homebuilt Title I gun when you make it, or at any subsequent time, so long as it is marked by the maker (yes, you can "farm that work" out to a professional engraver or stamper) before you transfer it. This is the current position of ATFE.
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Here is an FAQ on NFA(AOW's included) weapons. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt

ETA: I am not a lawyer or ATF agent. If you are unsure about the legality of something, please consult the BATFE reg's, a lawyer, or the BATFE directly. Also be sure to check your state laws as well.
 
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I might add here too
that In Maine, I'm not sure where else, a felon can have and hunt with a muzzle loader, all but a center fire I believe..

also for making firearms that the ATF rules apply,, if you make a hand gun with a smooth barrel bore of 1/2" and up make sure it will not take a 410 or larger shot gun shell, it will be considered a sawed off shot gun if under, don't quote me, 26" . if you do make one like this be sure you rifle it, some what but now you may come under other rules..
 
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