Pit Bull mauling and killing in California

My buddy that owned him wasn't mean to him or raise him to be like that, that's just how he was. Sorry, but it's not a cooincidence that pitbulls are responsible for so many deaths.

I'm sort of ( sort of , mind you ) inclined to agree here.

Although , my buddy Matt has a beautiful black Pit named Sweetpea, she is a fantastic dog , regardless of her breed , she is sweet and loves to love.
I have no doubt though that she could rip someones face off if the situation was right.

The thing that would make me disagree with you is that when a Pit ( or similiar big , strong dog ) attacks someone , they often do not walk away as opposed to being attacked by someone's Dachshund.
There are thousand of dog "attacks" each year across the U.S. , but you do not hear about the smaller or medium sized dog attacks because the damage is minimal , if any.

That said , I love dogs absolutly but , living in gang central here in commiefornia , I see more unfortunate Pits being walked around by punkass gang looking types than anything.

I think ( and I am pretty libertarian in thought ) that dogs such as the Pit should require a special lisense to own or breed , that person should take classes so that they fully understand their pet/friend.
 
If there was an applause smilie I would use it here.

Brett


I'm sort of ( sort of , mind you ) inclined to agree here.

Although , my buddy Matt has a beautiful black Pit named Sweetpea, she is a fantastic dog , regardless of her breed , she is sweet and loves to love.
I have no doubt though that she could rip someones face off if the situation was right.

The thing that would make me disagree with you is that when a Pit ( or similiar big , strong dog ) attacks someone , they often do not walk away as opposed to being attacked by someone's Dachshund.
There are thousand of dog "attacks" each year across the U.S. , but you do not hear about the smaller or medium sized dog attacks because the damage is minimal , if any.

That said , I love dogs absolutly but , living in gang central here in commiefornia , I see more unfortunate Pits being walked around by punkass gang looking types than anything.

I think ( and I am pretty libertarian in thought ) that dogs such as the Pit should require a special lisense to own or breed , that person should take classes so that they fully understand their pet/friend.
 
I remember when cocker spaniels were number one for bites also. German Shepherds are also often near the top. It seems that when any breed gets popular, irresponsible puppy mills begin cranking out pups to fill demand with no regard for whether the mating pair is suitable for each other or even for breeding at all. Add irresponsible owners and bingo, problem dog.
 
Guns are like dogs and they require responsible people to own them. I'm sorry that the dog in question was a pit but honestly I am the son of a dog breeder (Shepards and rots mostly) and my dad swore by pits and he could own anything. At the moment I own 2 rots and 1 red nose and he is an incredible dog. A bobcat got into my yard about 2 years ago and my dogs got into it pretty good. One of my rots got tore up and I stitched her up again, but that cat doesn't exist anymore, I found pieces of it all over the yard. Let me tell you, if you want any dog backing you against a wild animal get a pit they are simply astounding. (not to mention make great horses for your kids, at least mine think so :) )

I got into a altercation with a pack of wild dogs on a local trail about 7 miles from civilization doing a trail run. All I had was a camelback, delica, and a J-Frame. Unfortuanately I was forced to shoot one and reported it to NPS. Honestly, I don't know how it would have turned out if I had been without it. It could have been very messy. Now I don't run without a J-Frame, and I added pepper spray to the mix.
 
It may sound ridiculous, and I have never had to try this and I hope I never will but I have been told by K-9 handlers that the neck is the weak spot. I have taken bites from police dogs (on a sleeve) and it feels to me that if you can take the original bite on a forearm you can, if you can keep your cool in a situation like this, use your arm as leverage and the dogs body as a counter weight and while forcing your arm into (I know it's counter intuitive) the dogs mouth and force the head back with all your strength the neck should break realatively easily. Alternatively take the bite and try to jump with all your weight onto the dogs rib cage landing with the points of your knees you should hopefully puncture a lung or heart.

This is simply last ditch though. If at all possible avoid the bite and shoot the dog before he gets a bite.

Understand though that LEA dogs are trained not to deal unnessary damage (massive permenant damage) to people they subdue. While sheps/belgiums are excellent dogs, its a different story wrestling with a 100 lb pit. My understanding is many dogs owned by people on the dark side train their dogs to bite genitals and necks. Not a great picture.
 
Merry Christmas from the dog you all love to HATE!
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Have a great day.
 
I agree that breeding does not make any dog inherently "bad" but breeding definitely does make them prone to certain things. Retrievers are more prone to , surprise, retrieving. Jack Russell Terriers will, without any training or ever having seen a rodent or fox before, go into a hole and attack either. I had a golden retriever once who at about 3 months old made a perfect point on my parakeet's cage. He had never been trained to point at all and never seen a bird before outside of a tree in the yard maybe. I love dogs including bullies of all types but guess what pits are bred for? Fighting, or at least that was the original purpose, so guess what they just might do despite whatever training. I said MIGHT DO, but as others have said those big lumps on the sides of their heads are not for decoration.
 
I agree that breeding does not make any dog inherently "bad" but breeding definitely does make them prone to certain things. Retrievers are more prone to , surprise, retrieving. Jack Russell Terriers will, without any training or ever having seen a rodent or fox before, go into a hole and attack either. I had a golden retriever once who at about 3 months old made a perfect point on my parakeet's cage. He had never been trained to point at all and never seen a bird before outside of a tree in the yard maybe. I love dogs including bullies of all types but guess what pits are bred for? Fighting, or at least that was the original purpose, so guess what they just might do despite whatever training. I said MIGHT DO, but as others have said those big lumps on the sides of their heads are not for decoration.

Have a nice day.

Esav is a great Moderator.
 
I'll just add that while I'm sure that there are good pit bulls. Most of them were bred for fighting and they continue to be used for that and to guard drug dealers. At least that is the main use around here.

Ever been around any gamecocks? They are bred the same way:thumbup:

Any time I see one(Pit Bull) loose I have my eye on them. They can cover great distances with unbelieveable speed and very quietly.

The time my wife was attacked she wasn't even sure there was a dog in the doghouse but when she got "in range" out of nowhere she said it felt like her bicep was in a vise(the dog was chained up) Luckily she was setting there talking to the owner so all she got was a purple bicep.

The main bite report dogs according to my wife, who works for the Health Dept and investigates them, are Pit Bull, Rottweiler, Akita and Chow. I think the Chows may even bite more than the others but the damage is less.
 
Saying that most Pits are used in crime is just like the ludicrous arguments against gun ownership. . . Crimes are committed with them!?!?! We should ban them! Do you think banning responsible people from owning/raising a certain breed of dog will stop dog fighting and irresponsible ownership by criminals?
 
I would just like to say to Jackknife that your theory about a stick being enough to stop a dog attack is a bit flawed. I have two Great Pyrenees, and... if they were to both come at you, I doubt very seriously a stick would do you much good.
 
We have seen it in our own lifetimes. At any given period of time, a different breed is favored for aggression. I remember German Shepherds being considered dangerous dogs to be around, then it was Dobermans, vicious killers that they were. :rolleyes: Rotweilers and Pit bulls followed.

As soon as society rises up in righteous wrath against a breed, the thugs find another easily available iconic substitute "bad dog". But all dogs are good dogs and all dogs are bad dogs. You can't know which individual dog falls into which category unless you know them personally. So treat them all with respect, and insist they treat you the same. Be ready to defend yourself from dogs as you would from humans.

Don't let the easy demonization of one breed blind you to the danger of another.
 
bdws1975 , thanks. :D



The Chef - I think only one or two posters on here mentioned that they did not like the breed, the rest of us just urged caution.

Rat Finkenstein Saying that most Pits are used in crime is just like the ludicrous arguments against gun ownership. . . Crimes are committed with them!?!?! We should ban them! Do you think banning responsible people from owning/raising a certain breed of dog will stop dog fighting and irresponsible ownership by criminals?

I dont think anyone in this thread said they should be banned.

Regulated though ? Absolutly...
Besides being the dog of choice for gang bangers and wanna-be "tough guys"
they are also treated like disposable lighters by famous people like Michael Vick and not so famous people like the scumbags that got busted near my city not too long ago for dog fighting.
Every time I see a Pit chained to a metal stake or tree , hungry looking and ignored ( or any other working dog for that matter ) my heart saddens.

It makes me sick that we as humans , who are supposed to be caring for and loving our great friends , abuse them , chain them up and ignore them ( worse treatment than a slave ) , use them for blood sport and then kill them when they are of no use anymore , or train them to kill and/or hurt then fall alseep stoned and let them run loose and someones innocent kid gets his/her face torn off, all because some miscreant , some totally worthless , pants hanging down below their butt human was an irresponsible turd. ( these are the same idiots that think nothing of impregnating several different women in their life and usually wind up doing some time , somewhere.)
You know what kind of people I'm talking about.

Put on top of that , think of how many millions of dogs and cats are put to death each year because of human irresponsibility , carelessness and just plain stupidity.

We as humans do not have much to be proud of when we cannot even manage to take care of our "friends"... :thumbdn:
 
I don't usually get into these discussions as both sides are pretty set in their opinions.
I've owned a couple Rottys and the one female was an amazing dog. When she had to be put down I was devastated. My wife wanted another as she had been so good, so she got a male, German, papered dog. It was the first dog I have ever had put down because it was mean. We've raised enough dogs that until this one I had the opinion that dogs are a direct reflection of the owner. This ONE male Rott changed my opinion. He was of poor nature.

The real question of how to defend against this multiple dog attack is what is so hard for some to comprehend. The multi dog attack is dangerous because they are feeding off each others excitement. Defending from a one dog attack is simple by comparison. As you address one, the next will charge in and bite your legs from behind. One method is to turn toward your weak hand as you address each attack. This makes your rear a moving target, and puts one animal in front of the other. It basically becomes a vicious circle until enough has been done to turn the attack.
My recommendation is pepper spray and a knife that can be deployed quickly with one hand. Of course a gun would be effective if you've trained for the stress situation but most don't. Most attacks by dog packs occur in close proximity to houses/people so errant shots are a concern. Actually with most pistols even a well placed shot will penetrate completely and still have enough energy to be lethal if it hit someone.
 
All dogs like firearms in the hands of incompetent and stupid, dangerous people can and do cause harm to law abiding considerate folks.

Pit Bull Terriers were originally bred to fight other dogs in a pit or fenced ring.
Their handlers were also in the ring with the dogs. Their aggression was targeted on the opposing dog. The handlers were in no danger of attack because the dogs were bred to fight other dogs, not to be aggressive towards their masters.

The aggressive nature of pit bull terriers is usually caused be poor breeding and training.

This is a quote from Wikepedia, I know some tiimes they are not the bast source of info:
"The sport of dog fighting, which could be carried out under clandestine measures, blossomed. Since Bulldogs proved too ponderous and uninterested in dog fighting, the Bulldogs were crossed to English White and Black and Tan Terriers. They were also bred to be intelligent and level-headed during fights and remain non-aggressive toward their handlers. Part of the standard for organized dog-fighting required that the match referee who is unacquainted with the dog be able to enter the ring, pick up a dog while it was engaged in a fight, and get the respective owner to carry it out of the ring without being bitten. Dogs that bit the referee were culled."more, "The American Temperament Testing Society gives the American Pit Bull Terrier breed a pass percentage of 84.1%. The average of all breeds is 81.5%"

Most of the occurrences related here tell of dogs that were owned by people that just did not want to expend the time and effort to properly train there pets.
 
I would just like to say to Jackknife that your theory about a stick being enough to stop a dog attack is a bit flawed. I have two Great Pyrenees, and... if they were to both come at you, I doubt very seriously a stick would do you much good.

Yeah but Pyrs are guardians, not attack dogs.

I've owned 5 and IMO they protect in a different way. They use biting and attacking as a last resort.

The ones I have had when they had a strange dog get in the pasture they will basically follow it around and try to keep it away from the herd. IF it shows aggression they will fight but the ones I have had used a lot of barking and very little force.

Like I have border collies too and I have to be very careful to watch if they start playing with poultry they will kill them. In fact all the ones I have now have to be tied up unless I can watch them.

On the other hand my immature Pyr until I broke him of it would pick up chickens and ducks and carry them around in his mouth but never even scratch them. The whole genetic make up is difft for those dogs IMO>

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Tucker

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Pete keeping an eye on Wolf the border collie
 
This thread is supposed to be for practicle discussions on how to deal with a dog attack. so here goes.

In about 1992, I had just read about a pit bull attack on an 80 year old retired doctor. He was repeatedly attacked by one pit bull and even though there were 19 onlookers, including firemen, the attack was so vicious that they were not able to stop it. The doctor climbed on top of a car, but the dog climbed up after him. Ultimately the police came and shot the dog, but not before enough damage was caused which resulted in the man's death. The reason this is important is that it has to do with my state of mind when our two neighbors pit bulls and another dog got out.

Our next door neighbors had three dogs including two pitbulls. They were loved by their family and fairly decent to visitors, but protective of the yard if anyone walked by. Apparently, the wife had been away with a sick family member for a few days, and that caused the dogs some consternation. When I first saw them out, i called animal control to report it, and armed myself with a 9mm semi, loaded with Remington High speed hollow-points, in case anyone on the street was threatened, and waited for animal control. The dogs went up the street and out of sight. I found out later that they went into a home and attached a crew of 4 construction guys, singling out one for a vicious attack. The workers used 2x4s on the dogs, hitting their heads and back, but were unable to stop the dogs from ripping the poor guy. finally, they used the boards to push the dogs outside and closed the door.

While this was happening, i saw another neighbor drive home and start to get out of her car with her infant. So, i ran out onto the lawn and shouted that the pit bulls were loose. She used the garage door opener and drove into her garage. Just at that moment, with blood on their faces, the three dogs saw and heard me and just flat out charged. I was totally in the open and silently screamed "Oh No". The dogs were on the lawn about ten feet in front of me when I started shooting. Due to past training for how to deal with multiple assalants, i was determined to focus on one at a time, then the others. The first two shots missed. Normally, an animal will flinch away from a gunshot in their faces, these dogs did not misss a beat. The next two hit the left pit bull in the neck, and the chest. Spewing blood from it's sneck, it veared off to the left and scurried away. By that time the other pit was almost on me. The next two shots found their mark going into the dog's chest from the top. That forced it back about 12 feet where it collapsed. The third dog (not a pit), which was not so close originally, took tail. When the animal control officer came, he refused to go after the injured dog when he found out it was a pit bull. The police went into the back yard of the owner where it had run, and had to dispatch it with a shotgun. The other dog, laying in the street breathing it's last was put out of it misssery too with anther shot.

Lessons: #1. Having that tool probably saved my life and for sure a major mauling. While other tools may have done the job, it was the tool i had, and it worked. The threat was very real. I did need an effective tool. The male owner responded when heard about the incident: "they were coming for a bone, one of yours".
#2. The practical pistol practice that I had from years of competition practlcal pistol shooting really made a huge difference.
#3, I had to shoot each of them twice with the 9mm hollowpoints i was using to get them to stop. It makes me very uncomfortable to have to shoot and hit any target twice to get it to stop attacking. I originally switched to a 45 ACP, but now am comfortable with bonded core ultra high energy 9mm in a long barrell. Having any weapon by itself is not enough. You have to really know how to use, and have adequate practice ahead of time.
#4. While killing the dogs was unfortunate, it was certainly the best solution for the long run for the neighborhood. If they had only been maced or injured, the longstanding problem would have continued. An elderly lady thanked me profusely. Whe said that if it had been her that had been outside, she would have been killed.
#5 Dealing with the owners: the guy understood. The lady, when she came home was furious. She screamed in my face that she wished that I had been the one killed instead of her dogs. I had seen her slug her husband many times, and I was prepared. I think that it was only her sense of self-preservation that prevented her from hitting me, as I am sure that she knew that I would deck her if she tried.
#6 The criminal law: The responding police officer sargent asked how many shots i fired. I said six. He then counted the six eruptions in my lawn which accounted for each shot. Then he said that he would have done the same thing and refused to even file a report. He said that animal countrol could do that. (yes, this is common sense even in the subs of California. Thank you officer!).
#7 Civil law: the worker (who was laid up and had several dozen staples in his legs) filed a lawsuit against the owner, and the owner of the property where they were renting. He won against both.
#8 Emotional aftermath. It is surprising how totally frightful that occurance was. Even though I have been in combat, and have also hunted many years, it was an extremely emotionally stressful event. The stress lasted pretty strongly for days. Even though i have owned dogs for all my life, there was an instinctive fear reaction to any hint of aggression by dogs for many months afterwards that took some hard work to overcome. But it was super important to do that esp since dogs can tell.

Am I glad, would I do it again: yes. It was them or me. There was really no other choice.

I hope that this helps someone in some way.
 
We as humans? What is that, some new-age guilt-based ideology? Get out of Kalifornia before you are assimilated! :D


I have no responsibility for other people's actions, and yet, in this day and age of people taking very little responsibility for their own actions- we end up being punished for the actions of stupid people due to the knee jerk antics of other stupid people festering in their own ignorance(politicians). . . How is that for a conundrum?

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This is a great thread. Extremely muscular dogs like the pitbull are extremely tough. I was hiking in Northern Saskatchewan with my girlfriend of the time and her dog when a sled dog husky broke out of the bush and went after our dog. I timed a beautiful kick to the chest ribs fueled by adreneline and 220 pounds of pretty good muscle at the time. I actually took a step back to admire my handiwork and the dog hardly budged. He looked at me with so help me god a hurt feelings look and turned and left in a rather haughty manner. I had the cold feeling down my spine that if this dog had wanted to retaliate I'd have been in a mess of trouble.

I had a 115 pound Alaskan Malamute once that I wrestled all the time. If the dog got you down..you were staying down brother.

I am no weakling and own a few shot put records in my time. However, I would want spray or a shot-gun. I admire the old fella who took out a pit bull with a walking stick but you'd want to be accurate because body shots with a blunt instrument short of a sledge hammer wouldn't do it on a well muscled dog.

Even the handgun above may have been inadequate in less well trained hands.
 
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