Pit Bull mauling and killing in California

Don't even get me started on German Sheppards. I have never, and I really and truly mean NEVER, met one that has been an all around nice dog. Very smart dogs, almost too smart.

Hey The Chef, why are you getting so senstive? ; ) So what if people hate those dogs? I haven't even seen one person in this thread say they HATE pitbulls. Mind you, I haven't read every single word in this thread, but that's not the vibe I'm getting from this thread. More of a "it's the owner, not the dog" and I agree with that for the most part. If you have a good dog that's a pitbull and you trust her around your children or other people's children, more power to you. I can say that I will NEVER have my daughter around a pit, but that's just me. I've seen too many pits that are too unpredictable.
 
This should be read AGAIN!! If you have studied dog fighting (as I have in an attempt to understand the breed that I love so much) you will find that this is TRUE! Dogs were not allowed to be aggressive towards the people in the ring! A dog that was aggressive to humans was put down!!

This is something that people ALLOW or ENCOURAGE in their dogs (not just the bully breeds). I have never understood wanting an AGGRESIVE dog! The liability of having a dog like this makes no sense at all!

People need to control their dogs better! People need to have their dog on a leash when in public, its just polite and makes everyone feel better!

We had new neighbors move in and the guy was scared to death of my dog. So I asked if it would be okay to introduce him. He said okay and I took my dog over and let them meet. Turned out he likes my dog...

I don't think registering or outlawing a certain breed makes since! Do it across the board or not at all...

The Bully breeds are not for EVERYONE as they NEED a lot of love and attention as they are VERY active. They want to please and are very smart!

I love them!



Swoop said:
All dogs like firearms in the hands of incompetent and stupid, dangerous people can and do cause harm to law abiding considerate folks.

Pit Bull Terriers were originally bred to fight other dogs in a pit or fenced ring.
Their handlers were also in the ring with the dogs. Their aggression was targeted on the opposing dog. The handlers were in no danger of attack because the dogs were bred to fight other dogs, not to be aggressive towards their masters.

The aggressive nature of pit bull terriers is usually caused be poor breeding and training.

This is a quote from Wikepedia, I know some tiimes they are not the bast source of info:
"The sport of dog fighting, which could be carried out under clandestine measures, blossomed. Since Bulldogs proved too ponderous and uninterested in dog fighting, the Bulldogs were crossed to English White and Black and Tan Terriers. They were also bred to be intelligent and level-headed during fights and remain non-aggressive toward their handlers. Part of the standard for organized dog-fighting required that the match referee who is unacquainted with the dog be able to enter the ring, pick up a dog while it was engaged in a fight, and get the respective owner to carry it out of the ring without being bitten. Dogs that bit the referee were culled."more, "The American Temperament Testing Society gives the American Pit Bull Terrier breed a pass percentage of 84.1%. The average of all breeds is 81.5%"

Most of the occurrences related here tell of dogs that were owned by people that just did not want to expend the time and effort to properly train there pets.
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What is the best way to combat an aggressive dog?? I am not sure that a firearm would be my first choice, but I have been around large dogs for most of my adult life. From the bully breeds, to mastifs, to american bulldogs, dogo's, rotties, etc...

A medium to large dog simply moves too fast to hit accurately with a handgun. You can do it and it can be very effective, just not idea.

Mind set is where this fight has to take place. You have to be prepaired to get bit. Its probably going to happen! You also have to be very aggressive and dominant. It has to do with being the "Alpha Male". If a dog sences that you are the Alpha Male you have an advantage. Once off their feet dogs are much easier to deal with.

I would prefer a stout walking stick and pepper spray to a gun! Especially if backed up with a medium sized fixed blade.

IF a dog is attacking your dog a trainer once told me a "sure fire" way of getting the dog to stop. He also warned me to be ready as the dog was going to spin around and be VERY upset... I HAVE NEVER TRIED THIS, but he said it works EVERYTIME! I bet it does...

He said to lick your finger and shove it in the dogs @$$!! :eek: Be warned that you are ready for when the dog turns around!

Of course if a unknown dog was attacking my dog and was bitting it and I couldn't get it loose I would simply cut its throat from ear to ear! That would solve the problem in not very long at all as the dog would pass out from lack of blood to the brain.

Tom
 
Raymond3 said:
The reason this is important is that it has to do with my state of mind when our two neighbors pit bulls and another dog got out.

Our next door neighbors had three dogs including two pitbulls. They were loved by their family and fairly decent to visitors, but protective of the yard if anyone walked by. Apparently, the wife had been away with a sick family member for a few days, and that caused the dogs some consternation. When I first saw them out, i called animal control to report it, and armed myself with a 9mm semi, loaded with Remington High speed hollow-points, in case anyone on the street was threatened, and waited for animal control. The dogs went up the street and out of sight. I found out later that they went into a home and attached a crew of 4 construction guys, singling out one for a vicious attack. The workers used 2x4s on the dogs, hitting their heads and back, but were unable to stop the dogs from ripping the poor guy. finally, they used the boards to push the dogs outside and closed the door.
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That's the scenario a lot of times. They get loose.
 
Firstly let me say you guys in the US are lucky with your dog laws. Our laws here in Australia are pretty tight. We can't import many dog breeds including pit bulls and the ones already in Australia have to have some hardcore fences and muzzles etc. I think as a whole 95% of dogs are good dogs. Some breeds are more inclined to go off the rails then others due to breeding but even these so called dangerous breeds are 90% safe. The other 10% is made out of people due to a lack of knowledge or purposefully making the dogs aggressive and there will always be some crazy dogs in every breed. I've done some reading of my own and most of the banned dogs in Australia are ex-fighting dog breeds. Most all of these breeds sound like excellent family dogs. Their all incredibly loyal to the family and just wary of strangers and other dogs which is what I would love in a dog. I think banning a breed just happens because of the stupidity of the owners and media in my opinion. I also believe there should be a limit on all dog breeds so there is a maximum of 2 dogs per household, it seems most of the attacks in Australia come from 3 dogs forming a pack. Almost never hear of 1-2 dogs attacking a person in this country. Farmers/hunters get a different law of course.
 
Tom Krein said:
He said to lick your finger and shove it in the dogs @$$!! :eek: Be warned that you are ready for when the dog turns around!


Tom
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Just a note..make sure you read this carefully and lick your finger BEFORE and not AFTER insertion.:barf:
 
I don't know much about the breed but as with all things, the penalty to owners who's pets harm innocent bystanders, should be so severe that this problem would go away.
 
North61 said:
This is a great thread. Extremely muscular dogs like the pitbull are extremely tough. I was hiking in Northern Saskatchewan with my girlfriend of the time and her dog when a sled dog husky broke out of the bush and went after our dog. I timed a beautiful kick to the chest ribs fueled by adreneline and 220 pounds of pretty good muscle at the time. I actually took a step back to admire my handiwork and the dog hardly budged. He looked at me with so help me god a hurt feelings look and turned and left in a rather haughty manner. I had the cold feeling down my spine that if this dog had wanted to retaliate I'd have been in a mess of trouble.

I had a 115 pound Alaskan Malamute once that I wrestled all the time. If the dog got you down..you were staying down brother.

I am no weakling and own a few shot put records in my time. However, I would want spray or a shot-gun. I admire the old fella who took out a pit bull with a walking stick but you'd want to be accurate because body shots with a blunt instrument short of a sledge hammer wouldn't do it on a well muscled dog.

Even the handgun above may have been inadequate in less well trained hands.
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You don't go for the body. You target the very top of the skull or the spine just in front of the back hips. Unlike alot of dogs, pits don't have a broad muscular back, and the spine is vulnerable to blows from above.

In the first attack on our corgi, I used a hornbeam staff 54 inches tall and just under 2 inches in diameter. It has some weight to it. I exepect the lengh of it had something to do with the leverage and impact of the blow to the top of the pits skull as it had our corgi in it's jaws. I didn't have time or where-with-all for anything fancy, just a long overhead John Henry working on the railroad swing. It conected and the pit went limp immediatly. It was at that point the owner, a young man in his 30's with the ubiquitious shaved head and barb wire tatoo around his bicep came running at me cursing and threatening. I don't believe he knew at this point his dog was dead. I know I didn't. I thought I had just knocked it cold.

In the second attack almost a year later, a charging pit got by me and my first swing, and I took a second shot as it attacked my dog. I got it just in front of the back hips and it went down to its belly and thrashed around on the ground. Apparently my stick broke its spine at the point of impact. A vet later put the dog down. On this occasion I was using a blackthorn walking stick 34 1/2 inches long by about 1 3/4 inches in diameter at the top tapering to 1 1/2 inches at the bottom with a 2 inch root ball knob as a handle. In the attack I grabbed the stick at the bottom and used the root ball knob handle as the striking end with a overhead sledge hammer blow. Scared I was going to see our corgi ripped up again I gave it everything I could put behind it. I'm not very big, 5' 9" and 165lbs. But I think I had alot of adreniline flowing seeing the pit bull charging us and our dog.


In both cases, a single blow did fatal damage, so I don't believe that pit bulls are the indestuctable devil dog their owners would like to believe. So far I'm 2 for 2, but I just wish the pit owners would keep the things on a leash and under control. I can only conclude that from my own experiences with pits and thier owners that many pit owners are imature insecure gangsta wannabes that have the dog as a macho symbol of something, and they believe the dog leash laws don't apply to them. They further demonstrate extreme stupid behavior by being enraged at the person who defended their now bleeding little corgi for daring to strike thier beloved pit bull, and forcing the corgi owner to again use defensive measures with a stick. In both cases the pits owner was charged by the county police for having thier dog out of thier control, and in one case the pits owner was charged with assault on me after he got out of the hospital. It all could have been avoided if they had just kept the d--m dog on a leash where it belongs in public.

Dog or owner, I really don't care which is at fault. But the things were bread for fighting, and as Lorne Greene used to say in his Alpo commercials, "Instinct, you can't breed it out of an animal."

How many pit bull owners would be able to walk thier dog past another smaller dog, and not have thier people loving pet go for the small dog to kill it?

When pit bulls are around carry a big stick.
 
Dang I avoided this topic for some time but I will throw in my 2cents.... I have owned a pitbull a Beautiful Brindle pit bull female I believe weighing about 65-70lbs full shot records , this pit was my baby ,excluding my wife LOL. I raised this Pitbull from 8weeks old and one day all things went bad...I will leave out the full blown story but I could not seperate my pit from another dog and there were a few other incedents that lead me to my decision of putting my baby down ,knowing full well this Pitbull was not mis-treated in any way shape or form it's entire life..except the day I had to put her down ....I still love the breed and for me I will not go that path again.. the next road over from me a guy has a pair of red nose pits that get out every now and then reeking havoc on the neighborhood, now he's down to 1 . I will not hesitate to use lethal means to protect my family or friends are concerned.
 
Dogs have to be kept under the immediate control of their owners.

Your two stories illustrate what others have said about pits, in fact, about all dogs. Your pit was fine among family, but lost it with another dog. Your neighbor's dogs got out ... bad news. They can't be allowed out alone.
 
skammer said:
The breed cant be trusted period.

Skam
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I would agree to disagree with you!

The bully breeds have a very strong prey drive. They need to be socialized with other people and animals from a young age. This is true with most of the larger working do breeds....

Tom
 
TOM KREIN - "A medium to large dog simply moves too fast to hit accurately with a handgun. ...

Mind set is where this fight has to take place. You have to be prepaired to get bit. Its probably going to happen! You also have to be very aggressive and dominant. It has to do with being the "Alpha Male". If a dog sences that you are the Alpha Male you have an advantage. Once off their feet dogs are much easier to deal with."

As for a dog moving too fast to be hit with a handgun bullet, it all depends. If a person practices handgun shooting, and realizes that a dog will be charging head-on, the shot is easier than if one were shooting at a "zigzagging" animal.

As for "mindset," and "being prepared to get bitten..." huh uh. I ain't gonna get bitten! That is totally unacceptable to me.

I don't know how much ripped flesh and muscles, and how many stitches are acceptable to others, but ZERO are acceptable to me!!

My mindset in such a situation is to use my Colt's Lightweight Commander immediatley and put a couple of Federal .45 ACP 230 grains Hydra Shok hollowpoint bullets into a vicious, charging dog. It doesn't matter to me what breed the attacking mutt is, I have no intention of getting into a down and dirty wrestling match with some vicious dog that has very sharp teeth, powerful jaws, and a "mindset" to kill me.

I've been bitten before by a mutt when I was unarmed, and it ain't a'gonna happen again. A number of years ago, my girlfriend was bitten by a Doberman without warning. I happened to have a set of golf clubs immediately at hand and a MacGregor Pro-Flite # 2 iron settled that murderous dog's attitude right then and there. FORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If others choose to fight off vicious dogs with sticks and knives and fingers in bungholes, fine with me. I, however, choose 230 grains "fingers" to stick up their bungholes.

If people keep their mutts on a lease -- as I do mine -- they'll have no problem with me.

That's my take on attacking dogs.



L.W.
 
Me..I am going to get a heavy staff and keep my fingers to myself! There..I learned something!
 
Leanwolf said:
TOM KREIN - "A medium to large dog simply moves too fast to hit accurately with a handgun. ...

Mind set is where this fight has to take place. You have to be prepaired to get bit. Its probably going to happen! You also have to be very aggressive and dominant. It has to do with being the "Alpha Male". If a dog sences that you are the Alpha Male you have an advantage. Once off their feet dogs are much easier to deal with."

As for a dog moving too fast to be hit with a handgun bullet, it all depends. If a person practices handgun shooting, and realizes that a dog will be charging head-on, the shot is easier than if one were shooting at a "zigzagging" animal.

As for "mindset," and "being prepared to get bitten..." huh uh. I ain't gonna get bitten! That is totally unacceptable to me.

I don't know how much ripped flesh and muscles, and how many stitches are acceptable to others, but ZERO are acceptable to me!!

My mindset in such a situation is to use my Colt's Lightweight Commander immediatley and put a couple of Federal .45 ACP 230 grains Hydra Shok hollowpoint bullets into a vicious, charging dog. It doesn't matter to me what breed the attacking mutt is, I have no intention of getting into a down and dirty wrestling match with some vicious dog that has very sharp teeth, powerful jaws, and a "mindset" to kill me.

I've been bitten before by a mutt when I was unarmed, and it ain't a'gonna happen again. A number of years ago, my girlfriend was bitten by a Doberman without warning. I happened to have a set of golf clubs immediately at hand and a MacGregor Pro-Flite # 2 iron settled that murderous dog's attitude right then and there. FORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If others choose to fight off vicious dogs with sticks and knives and fingers in bungholes, fine with me. I, however, choose 230 grains "fingers" to stick up their bungholes.

If people keep their mutts on a lease -- as I do mine -- they'll have no problem with me.

That's my take on attacking dogs.



L.W.
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Don't get me wrong! IF I have my hand gun I plan on using it!! I don't want to get bit any more than you do!! I have drawn my gun on a dog in the past and came very close to shooting it. They key to what you have said is that you must practice.... I agree!



coletrane811 said:
There you go. I think sometimes they see HUMANS as prey. That answers the question for me.

Are pitbulls more likely to attack a human?

yessir.
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I will disagree with you on this. When I mentioned the prey drive I meant towards other animals. Bully breeds do not USUALLY see humans as prey.

ANY large breed dog can be aggressive to humans. MOST bully breads must be trained to be aggressive or socially neglected.

Tom
 
Pitbulls need to be banned. This breed of dog as been bred for hostility and violence from the beginning. These vicious tendancies have been further brought out and bred for purposes of dog fighting and other illegal activities. Whenever you hear of dog attacks on people, the majority of them are pit bulls. I don't buy the argument that people make dogs this way. People can contribute, but the genetic makeup of these dogs is geared towards violence. Pit bulls are illegal in Miami Dade County and you have to have $300K in homeowners insurance to have one in the neighboring county.

Time to do away with these breed. They are worthless as a breed.
 
southbeachlaw said:
Pitbulls need to be banned. This breed of dog as been bred for hostility and violence from the beginning. These vicious tendancies have been further brought out and bred for purposes of dog fighting and other illegal activities. Whenever you hear of dog attacks on people, the majority of them are pit bulls. I don't buy the argument that people make dogs this way. People can contribute, but the genetic makeup of these dogs is geared towards violence. Pit bulls are illegal in Miami Dade County and you have to have $300K in homeowners insurance to have one in the neighboring county.

Time to do away with these breed. They are worthless as a breed.
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We should do away with ignoramuses. . . :rolleyes:
 
Tom Krein said:
I will disagree with you on this. When I mentioned the prey drive I meant towards other animals. Bully breeds do not USUALLY see humans as prey.

ANY large breed dog can be aggressive to humans. MOST bully breads must be trained to be aggressive or socially neglected.

Tom
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I agree that any large breed dog can be aggressive. In fact, ANY dog can be aggressive.

I disagree with your theory on seeing humans as prey. Prey is prey, no matter if it's a human or a squirell (we're all animals, but that's a different topic). If a dog attacks a human, it's because it either feels threatened or it's preying on them. Another thing you notice with pitbull attacks is that they attack in teams of 2 or more a lot of times. If that's not preying on something or someone, I don't know what is.
 
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