PM2Phanatic is not good to go!!!

Bryan J said:
My understanding is that when somebody tries to defraud you via PayPal, PayPal is going to try to reimburse you by tapping into the offending party's account (your reimbursement is not going to come out of their pocket). If the criminal party was smart enough to disconnect all funding sources from PayPal, then you are going to be out of luck. I believe PayPal will tell you to go pound sand. This is where the heavy-hitting credit card company, who has a massive amount of leverage over PayPal (and anyone else who uses their services) comes to your rescue. This is partially why you pay credit card companies--they provide a beneficial consumer protection service. I sort of get your point, but the counterpoint is that PayPal is always touting their buyer protection as a reason to use their service. In these cases where they do not deliver, they are basically saying "read the fine print, sucker". This is somewhat unethical, so I have no problem with bringing in the credit card company as an equalizer.
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Obviously your experience with PayPal's buyers protection is substantially different than my own.
 
on_the_edge said:
If PP can't get the job done, then I have every right to bring to bear whatever is necessary (within legal confines) to recoup my funds. PP's agreement to the process is not needed.
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Your experience with PayPal's buyers protection is obviously vastly different than my own. It's a free country, do what you want.
 
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Bryan J said:
My understanding is that when somebody tries to defraud you via PayPal, PayPal is going to try to reimburse you by tapping into the offending party's account (your reimbursement is not going to come out of their pocket). If the criminal party was smart enough to disconnect all funding sources from PayPal, then you are going to be out of luck. I believe PayPal will tell you to go pound sand. This is where the heavy-hitting credit card company, who has a massive amount of leverage over PayPal (and anyone else who uses their services) comes to your rescue. This is partially why you pay credit card companies--they provide a beneficial consumer protection service. I sort of get your point, but the counterpoint is that PayPal is always touting their buyer protection as a reason to use their service. In these cases where they do not deliver, they are basically saying "read the fine print, sucker". This is somewhat unethical, so I have no problem with bringing in the credit card company as an equalizer.
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PP will 1st try to recover the money from the seller, and in most cases this is what is going to happen. If they can't recover it, they will pay out of pocket. The use of credit cards does add a layer of protection, and can be the quicker method. Unfortunately this is a 2 edge sword. You may get a layer of protection, others may use it as a way to defraud sellers.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
PP will 1st try to recover the money from the seller, and in most cases this is what is going to happen. If they can't recover it, they will pay out of pocket. The use of credit cards does add a layer of protection, and can be the quicker method. Unfortunately this is a 2 edge sword. You may get a layer of protection, others may use it as a way to defraud sellers.
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If it is indeed true that PayPal ultimately will cover the cost of fraud themselves, then I would certainly allow the disputation process to play out. But, if at the end of that process they decide against reimbursement of the victim, then I am all for invoking the CC option. I would be against invoking that option prior to having an explicit denial of reimbursement from PayPal (or before the window of opportunity to invoke said option was nearing its end).
 
Bryan J said:
I am completely open to the possibility that I am wrong. What specifically are you referring to? Please elaborate.
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This quote from you "If the criminal party was smart enough to disconnect all funding sources from PayPal, then you are going to be out of luck. I believe PayPal will tell you to go pound sand." Is that from your personal experience?
 
LastRodeo said:
This quote from you "If the criminal party was smart enough to disconnect all funding sources from PayPal, then you are going to be out of luck. I believe PayPal will tell you to go pound sand." Is that from your personal experience?
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It is not. I am merely inferring based on other members' ordeals I've heard/read about. I recall in such cases PayPal informing the buyer their particular transaction was not covered under their protection policy due to some piece of fine print in the policy. PayPal is of course legally sound in their decision, but I think the use of fine print to negate a general policy is a bit of grey area that can sometimes be unfair. Of course, I have no way of verifying these members' stories are entirely accurate (or completely unbiased). Fortunately, I myself have never had an issue buying or selling through PayPal. Hopefully I will never have any personal experience on this topic! 🤣🤣🤣
 
As far as I know PayPal Goods and Services covers a defrauded buyer from the vig and then goes after the seller. It's 2 separate actions.

The problem people keep having on here is they had complete strangers here a payment by PayPal Friends and Family because someone has a bunch of "vouches" on Reddit or the Gram and they of course get burned.
 
UPDATE: This guys son Kyler made contact with me and said his father suffered a heart attack and is currently in the hospital. He was a bit tied up receiving 3 stents. He wants to make everything right with the knife situation so if you want a refund he will get you a refund. If you have not received your knife yet but still want it he will make that happen as well. Might take a few more days to get it all sorted out (once he is release from the hospital) but he will get it sorted out. His son is willing to jump in and help out when he is not working. Obviously the son and mother did not know what their fathers business was on BF and Redditt to rectify it. And the dad was incapacitated till this afternoon. I'll update as i get more info.
 
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NYUSNVET said:
UPDATE: This guys son Kyler made contact with me and said his father suffered a heart attack and is currently in the hospital. He was a bit tied up receiving 3 stents. He wants to make everything right with the knife situation so if you want a refund he will get you a refund. If you have not received your knife yet but still want it he will make that happen as well. Might take a few more days to get it all sorted out but he will get it sorted out. His son is willing to jump in and help out when he is not working. Obviously the son and mother did not know what their fathers business was on BF and Redditt to rectify it. And the dad was incapacitated till this afternoon. I'll update as i get more info.
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How was he browsing bladeforums and not getting anyone’s messages this entire time? And how was he selling knives on reddit 5 days ago. That doesn’t jive. If he can sell knives and one was shipped and received, what happened to the others?
Why was the return address from the wife and why was the paypal to the wife?
One person did receive their knife, several days after the OP posted this thread, and during that time, the seller was browsing bladeforums and selling knives on reddit. If he (or she) had time to do that, even from the hospital, there was ample opportunity to respond to the dozens of attempts to contact them.
Also, why did he make his or her profile private when someone tried to contact him or her about the shipping delay?
This excuse brings more questions than answers…
 
Pete1977 said:
How was he browsing bladeforums and not getting anyone’s messages this entire time? And how was he selling knives on reddit 5 days ago. That doesn’t jive. If he can sell knives and one was shipped and received, what happened to the others?
Why was the return address from the wife and why was the paypal to the wife?
One person did receive their knife, several days after the OP posted this thread, and during that time, the seller was browsing bladeforums and selling knives on reddit. If he (or she) had time to do that, even from the hospital, there was ample opportunity to respond to the dozens of attempts to contact them.
Also, why did he make his or her profile private when someone tried to contact him or her about the shipping delay?
This excuse brings more questions than answers…
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See Rule #1.
 
I forwarded all correspondence i have had so far to Boru13.
Honestly i'm not convinced of anything myself so far and just so happen to be the chosen messenger. Supposedly he is all stressed out with his wife having cancer and was selling knives, guns, mortgaging a paid off home to pay for chemo and meds
which led to his heart blowing up. I have a gazillion questions myself but can only go with what little i've been given till i get more. Don't know if he is telling the truth or part truth or is cornered and grasping at what he thinks will get him out of this mess but i do know that everyone involved should decide if he wants to make it right by shipping the knives or refunding your PP then decide what you want to do and lets put together a list and i'll get it to his son. I'd rather get my $$$ back now vs let PP hang on to it.
 
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I'd rather have the knife but will just let PayPal handle it. Not interested in playing whatever this new game is.
 
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If this is true, I'll wait for the knife.. If it's not true and he is grasping for time or a pass, but still delivers.
I would really like the knife, as it's for a local mechanic friend. He has his hopes up, and a blurple Manix, is what he wanted.
The Bonus of having a rex45 blade and not 110v, is Awesome!

Blurple Rex45, Manix.. is what I bought from him.
 
winnerone23 said:
If this is true, I'll wait for the knife.. If it's not true and he is grasping for time or a pass, but still delivers.
I would really like the knife, as it's for a local mechanic friend. He has his hopes up, and a blurple Manix, is what he wanted.
The Bonus of having a rex45 blade and not 110v, is Awesome!

Blurple Rex45, Manix.. is what I bought from him.
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FWIW opening the case doesn't prevent him from shipping it. All it does is force him to reply and resolve the situation somehow within a month.
 
Yeah, if it were me, I would initiate the dispute, regardless of whether I wanted the knife or not. I would also send the buyer a message via the PayPal messaging facility, something like "Hi can you please provide a status update on the item I ordered? I have not received anything and the tracking number you provided shows no shipping activity.". This creates an audit trail for PayPal showing that you've attempted to contact the seller to resolve the issue.
 
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