PP fees

Doc Rich said:
I bought a knife yesterday and paid via G and S. The knife was worth $1000, he never mentioned NET or F+F, also, I even sent the guy $ 1014.
Here is what I got as a response from the seller:

"Rich I checked paypal and since you decided to pay G&S they obviously charged me. It was 1000 net to me for the skike. The G&S fee is your responsibility. "

At this point, I just asked for a refund. To which he replied:

"I can issue a refund in the amount of 969.08 if youd like. Paypal has the remaining 30.92.

You can try to cancel the transaction on your end if its an option

If you are new to the knife community as you stated you should understand that the amount agreed upon is always NET to the seller. If you wish to send G&S that is your decision to secure your transaction, or to put an “insurance” on it and is Always the buyers responsiblity. Why would the seller agree to pay for insurance on YOUR purchase. Doesn’t make sense."

So, I still sent the $ 30.92, since he was only willing to give me back $ 969.08, as a refund for my $ 1014.

He did send me the knife this morning. I found this thread and sent him the link. He then responded with:

"Rich. You saying i should pay a fee to sell my knife is like me saying you’re responsible for shipping it. The price of the knife was 1000, which was the amount due. You could of bypassed this by paying F/F but YOU, not I, wanted to send it G/S. I will be more than glad to split the cost just so there’s no hard feelings"

To which I responded:

No hard feelings at all. I just assumed it was goods and services, you assumed I was going to pay F+F. It was more of a misunderstanding/miscommunication.
I just wanted you to know that F+F is NOT the standard here on Bladeforums, and I am not alone in my thinking. If you read your own
posting, it never mentions NET or F+F. If you read my response to your message, I CLEARLY stated 1000 Goods and Services, yet you
did not correct me, and yet I even sent you $1014. As I said, no hard feelings. If at all, I don't appreciate you making me sound stupid
when I presumed payment was G and S. Read the thread dude. ALSO please indicate F+F in your for sale posts, do not assume EVERYONE is paying via
F+F after all, I am paying for an item (goods).

Thanks for shipping the knife.

End of my story.... thanks for listening guys.
Click to expand...

There's no way I would pay for a $100 item using Friends & Family, not to mention a $1000 item. You did the right thing except your calculation of $1014 was way off. It should have been $1030.18 if you wanted the seller to net $1000.

1030.18 x 2.9% = $29.88
$29.88 + .30 = $30.18
$1030.18 - $30.18 = $1000
 
Precisely what I was thinking, I received full refunds before. "Paypal has the remaining 30.92." I was "what is this guy saying?...."
He is the person selling a Skike / Greg Lightfoot on the Custom Knives section.
 
Doc Rich said:
I bought a knife yesterday and paid via G and S. The knife was worth $1000, he never mentioned NET or F+F, also, I even sent the guy $ 1014.
Here is what I got as a response from the seller:

"Rich I checked paypal and since you decided to pay G&S they obviously charged me. It was 1000 net to me for the skike. The G&S fee is your responsibility. "

At this point, I just asked for a refund. To which he replied:

"I can issue a refund in the amount of 969.08 if youd like. Paypal has the remaining 30.92.

You can try to cancel the transaction on your end if its an option

If you are new to the knife community as you stated you should understand that the amount agreed upon is always NET to the seller. If you wish to send G&S that is your decision to secure your transaction, or to put an “insurance” on it and is Always the buyers responsiblity. Why would the seller agree to pay for insurance on YOUR purchase. Doesn’t make sense."

So, I still sent the $ 30.92, since he was only willing to give me back $ 969.08, as a refund for my $ 1014.

He did send me the knife this morning. I found this thread and sent him the link. He then responded with:

"Rich. You saying i should pay a fee to sell my knife is like me saying you’re responsible for shipping it. The price of the knife was 1000, which was the amount due. You could of bypassed this by paying F/F but YOU, not I, wanted to send it G/S. I will be more than glad to split the cost just so there’s no hard feelings"

To which I responded:

No hard feelings at all. I just assumed it was goods and services, you assumed I was going to pay F+F. It was more of a misunderstanding/miscommunication.
I just wanted you to know that F+F is NOT the standard here on Bladeforums, and I am not alone in my thinking. If you read your own
posting, it never mentions NET or F+F. If you read my response to your message, I CLEARLY stated 1000 Goods and Services, yet you
did not correct me, and yet I even sent you $1014. As I said, no hard feelings. If at all, I don't appreciate you making me sound stupid
when I presumed payment was G and S. Read the thread dude. ALSO please indicate F+F in your for sale posts, do not assume EVERYONE is paying via
F+F after all, I am paying for an item (goods).

Thanks for shipping the knife.

End of my story.... thanks for listening guys.
Click to expand...



Thank you for sharing. The seller is very wrong.

The G&S fee isn't for a knife or the item, it is incurred because the seller utilized a service to earn money by selling a good. Simple as that. You made money through PayPal, they should get their cut. It's also right there in the T&S that they agreed to abide.

Also, insurance is for the SELLER. They are the one that facilitates the shipping and they are the one that will file the claim. If an item gets lost in transit, the seller refunds the buyer through their account and then they collect on the insurance so that they are made whole too.
 
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Railsplitter said:
There's no way I would pay for a $100 item using Friends & Family, not to mention a $1000 item. You did the right thing except your calculation of $1014 was way off. It should have been $1030.18 if you wanted the seller to net $1000.

1030.18 x 2.9% = $29.88
$29.88 + .30 = $30.18
$1030.18 - $30.18 = $1000
Click to expand...

Correct, that is why I paid via G and S. Getting shafted for $100 is one thing, but $1000? Oh my.......
I really didn't want him to net 1000, per se, since he didn't mention NET on his for sale post, the $14 was more of a courtesy on my part.
 
Doc Rich said:
Correct, that is why I paid via G and S. Getting shafted for $100 is one thing, but $1000? Oh my.......
I really didn't want him to net 1000, per se, since he didn't mention NET on his for sale post, the $14 was more of a courtesy on my part.
Click to expand...


The funny thing is, he wasn't going to NET $1,000 whether you paid F&F or G&S and added the appropriate fees.
 
I have had people refund like that to me. Drives me nuts. PP will reverse the transaction including fees. It is only when the seller starts a new transaction that you loose them. In my case I just let it go. I had already had enough problem with the guy and getting a refund at all. I wasn't going to start again. Just glad to get most my money.
as to the case above I would have sent it G&S(seller paying fees), that is the default and never F&F
 
benchwarmer380 said:
The funny thing is, he wasn't going to NET $1,000 whether you paid F&F or G&S and added the appropriate fees.
Click to expand...

LOL.... I just love knives and spend a lot on them. This forum has given me the chance to own knives that I was too late to purchase and I am grateful for that. So far, I could say 98%
of my deals here are with great people who are very helpful and understanding.
 
Doc Rich said:
I bought a knife yesterday and paid via G and S. The knife was worth $1000, he never mentioned NET or F+F, also, I even sent the guy $ 1014.
Here is what I got as a response from the seller:

"Rich I checked paypal and since you decided to pay G&S they obviously charged me. It was 1000 net to me for the skike. The G&S fee is your responsibility. "

At this point, I just asked for a refund. To which he replied:

"I can issue a refund in the amount of 969.08 if youd like. Paypal has the remaining 30.92.

You can try to cancel the transaction on your end if its an option

If you are new to the knife community as you stated you should understand that the amount agreed upon is always NET to the seller. If you wish to send G&S that is your decision to secure your transaction, or to put an “insurance” on it and is Always the buyers responsiblity. Why would the seller agree to pay for insurance on YOUR purchase. Doesn’t make sense."

So, I still sent the $ 30.92, since he was only willing to give me back $ 969.08, as a refund for my $ 1014.

He did send me the knife this morning. I found this thread and sent him the link. He then responded with:

"Rich. You saying i should pay a fee to sell my knife is like me saying you’re responsible for shipping it. The price of the knife was 1000, which was the amount due. You could of bypassed this by paying F/F but YOU, not I, wanted to send it G/S. I will be more than glad to split the cost just so there’s no hard feelings"

To which I responded:

No hard feelings at all. I just assumed it was goods and services, you assumed I was going to pay F+F. It was more of a misunderstanding/miscommunication.
I just wanted you to know that F+F is NOT the standard here on Bladeforums, and I am not alone in my thinking. If you read your own
posting, it never mentions NET or F+F. If you read my response to your message, I CLEARLY stated 1000 Goods and Services, yet you
did not correct me, and yet I even sent you $1014. As I said, no hard feelings. If at all, I don't appreciate you making me sound stupid
when I presumed payment was G and S. Read the thread dude. ALSO please indicate F+F in your for sale posts, do not assume EVERYONE is paying via
F+F after all, I am paying for an item (goods).

Thanks for shipping the knife.

End of my story.... thanks for listening guys.
Click to expand...

This is the most stunning example of arrogantly stupid ignorance about Bladeforums and Paypal I think I've ever seen. This person deserves naming.
 
Doc Rich Doc Rich
It sounds like you and the seller ended on good terms, which is great!

Nevertheless, by your story the seller was wrong in almost every way (except for being cool at the end, big props for that!). It might be worthwhile to politely direct him to read up in GBU if he plans on sticking around.

It seems stories like yours are getting more frequent, which has been keeping me away from the exchange for a while. Well, that and perhaps being broke. :D
 
madcap_magician said:
This is the most stunning example of arrogantly stupid ignorance about Bladeforums and Paypal I think I've ever seen. This person deserves naming.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the first bit, but ignorance deserves educating first. Naming and shaming, even though their mindset is not the opinion of most, isnt quite fair since they're a newer seller themselves. They've been made aware, hopefully they read, learn and potentially share.

Also, for those inclined, he's given enough breadcrumbs to find the seller in about 20 seconds flat.

Personally, Id rather them join the conversation on their own volition than be dragged in.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
I agree with you on the first bit, but ignorance deserves educating first. Naming and shaming, even though their mindset is not the opinion of most, isnt quite fair since they're a newer seller themselves. They've been made aware, hopefully they read, learn and potentially share.

Also, for those inclined, he's given enough breadcrumbs to find the seller in about 20 seconds flat.

Personally, Id rather them join the conversation on their own volition than be dragged in.
Click to expand...

My thing isn't so much even that the seller insisted on F&F so much as it is that the seller then proceeded to lecture the buyer about why the buyer should have known to pay with F&F just because 'the knife community always does that,' even though the buyer made clear to the seller that he was paying G&S, and then doubled down by asserting as common sense that he as the seller should not have to pay for selling his knife, despite that being literally the opposite of the Paypal terms and conditions.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
Touche.
Click to expand...

Something that occurs to me is that I bet all the people we rail against who only post in FSOT... I bet they're coming from Instagram. The Instagram knife crowd is a totally different animal. They're trend-driven, short-term speculation and flipping is part of their culture, and they do a lot of F&F Paypal. And they like a hell of a lot of goofy knives.
 
Doc Rich Doc Rich one of the lines that stood out to me is the bit where he says it is the buyers responsibility to pay theses fees and such which to a point he is right but as the seller he is ultimately responsible for them and it is easy enough for him to calculate in to the total.
 
Doc Rich said:
I bought a knife yesterday and paid via G and S. The knife was worth $1000, he never mentioned NET or F+F, also, I even sent the guy $ 1014.
Here is what I got as a response from the seller:

"Rich I checked paypal and since you decided to pay G&S they obviously charged me. It was 1000 net to me for the skike. The G&S fee is your responsibility. "

At this point, I just asked for a refund. To which he replied:

"I can issue a refund in the amount of 969.08 if youd like. Paypal has the remaining 30.92.

You can try to cancel the transaction on your end if its an option

If you are new to the knife community as you stated you should understand that the amount agreed upon is always NET to the seller. If you wish to send G&S that is your decision to secure your transaction, or to put an “insurance” on it and is Always the buyers responsiblity. Why would the seller agree to pay for insurance on YOUR purchase. Doesn’t make sense."

So, I still sent the $ 30.92, since he was only willing to give me back $ 969.08, as a refund for my $ 1014.

He did send me the knife this morning. I found this thread and sent him the link. He then responded with:

"Rich. You saying i should pay a fee to sell my knife is like me saying you’re responsible for shipping it. The price of the knife was 1000, which was the amount due. You could of bypassed this by paying F/F but YOU, not I, wanted to send it G/S. I will be more than glad to split the cost just so there’s no hard feelings"

To which I responded:

No hard feelings at all. I just assumed it was goods and services, you assumed I was going to pay F+F. It was more of a misunderstanding/miscommunication.
I just wanted you to know that F+F is NOT the standard here on Bladeforums, and I am not alone in my thinking. If you read your own
posting, it never mentions NET or F+F. If you read my response to your message, I CLEARLY stated 1000 Goods and Services, yet you
did not correct me, and yet I even sent you $1014. As I said, no hard feelings. If at all, I don't appreciate you making me sound stupid
when I presumed payment was G and S. Read the thread dude. ALSO please indicate F+F in your for sale posts, do not assume EVERYONE is paying via
F+F after all, I am paying for an item (goods).

Thanks for shipping the knife.

End of my story.... thanks for listening guys.
Click to expand...


The "seller" is a liar, a thief, and just plain wrong on every count. I'd be contacting PayPal and reporting him. Anyone doubting this should take a quick perusal at his posting history.
 
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PirateSeulb said:
Doc Rich Doc Rich one of the lines that stood out to me is the bit where he says it is the buyers responsibility to pay theses fees and such which to a point he is right but as the seller he is ultimately responsible for them and it is easy enough for him to calculate in to the total.
Click to expand...


I disagree. The responsibility of the fees lies solely on the seller.

Now, the buyer "pays" those fees in a sense as any fee incurred is a part of the cost of doing business. PayPal requires that they are included in the initial price. Adding them after the fact is a surcharge and against PP's rules.
 
B benchwarmer380 I mean that the buyer is responsible in such that the cost is passed on to them and if there is an option to forgo those fees it is the buyers choice to accept the risks involved with such.
 
PirateSeulb said:
B benchwarmer380 I mean that the buyer is responsible in such that the cost is passed on to them and if there is an option to forgo those fees it is the buyers choice to accept the risks involved with such.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying now. I basically reiterated that in my post above.

Two things.
First, and perhaps this is a bit of a pedantic game of semantics, but the word "responsibility" in relation to the buyer here only applies to the consequences if they chose to forgo their protection. The seller is really the only one responsible for calculating their cost of doing business.
Secondly, I believe your extrapolation of that sellers words to be erroneous. I think he straight up means that the buyer pays it in the form of a surcharge so he can NET what he wants. Id be nice if they joined in to clarify and share their mindset.
 
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Oh no I agree with all you are saying and yes much is more semantics or misreading perhaps of one another's posts. I believe the seller meant it as you suggest I only mean to agree with the sellers sentiment up to the point of what we both agree falls on the buyer.
 
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