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Pre-order for the new Kephart?

pre-order for the new Kephart?

  • Yes, start a pre-order

    Votes: 69 92.0%
  • No, bad idea

    Votes: 6 8.0%

  • Total voters
    75

Box_Opener

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Messages
248
You know, every knife or sword has its own character. I’ve said this before but I got a repro version of a kephart a few years ago and it is ugly but it cuts so well. It has a really distinct personality. Becker said his original kephart knife “wants to cut.” I can’t say if others are like that but mine really feels that way. It’s very old world. I kind of think to myself “this is how it felt before highways” when I use it (you should read Camping and Woodcraft if you haven’t). And I just use it for random shit no babying at all. I’m really excited about Nathan’s version because it’s both old and new, and that’s a cool thing to do. Like, CAD machining mixed with 19th Century American design—it’s just just so fucking American. How could you not be curious?
 
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vxd

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
1,942
Thin stock. No jimping, S-grind or other special features. It will have a simple swedge but no chamfers. No hidden lanyard. Thin scales. It will be a fine knife, but it's actually not that expensive to make.
Hi Nathan. Would you consider adding TeroTuf scales as an option to Kephart preorder?
 

comis

Gold Member
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
1,034
Double convex, no. But I do intend to try a bi-bevel design to achieve the function of the convex. functionally, Delta 3V does not need to be as steep behind the edge as the original due to its superior durability, but there is some advantage to the angles tapering off higher up the primaries to reduce binding when splitting wood. the knife will receive tweaks before they ship and it's impossible to predict which tweaks will work and which won't, but that is one of the things on the whiteboard for this project.


my goal is not to perfectly duplicate the exact detail of the original as much as create a modern Kephart that would follow the original design intent but with modern materials and processes. I'm trying to make the knife that Horace would select based on materials and techniques available today.

Nathan,

Thank you replying this and also explaining the taper tang. To me, the double convex is nothing more than an experiment, or a mean to reduce weight where appropriate, but I trust entirely you will know way better.

For taper tang, I would only ask for it because I really do love a well balanced knife, it felt nimble and alive in the hand and that's probably why the first time I pull out the DEK1(my first CPK knife), it immediately put a grin on my face. Judging from the BK62, if the handle is skeletonized with micarta scales, I do believe a perfectly balanced knife is totally achievable.

For the handle shape, no matter what happened, please don't ever turn it into a broom stick. No offense to those who prefer it, but it does make the knife unnecessarily heavy, index horribly and it's tiring to hold(since it will constantly trying to rotate in your hand). BK62 maybe just a tiny bit thin, but it is always easier to add liner to thicken it; but trying to thin down a perfectly 3d machined micarta scale is near impossible.
 

Lapp_Dance

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
983
Pre-order is always nice so one can get in on a knife they want. That being said, full cash up front is an absolutely horrible idea and poor practice. I know CPK has been around, but you will see it many places on BF that you should never pay up front for a knife. I ordered a custom from another maker recently who refused payment until it was done.

Looks like I’ll be missing out on this one for two reasons. You are doing a pre-order a week before Christmas in a year where many are financially strained, and on top of that you want all of the money up front.

This is just my opinion, and I’m sure some flaming will commence.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
63
Nah, no flames, man. It's your opinion and that's fine.

I think Nathan himself has acknowledged that taking full money upfront on a pre-order is terrible (I think in the DEK1 pre-order thread). But that's how they do things, and it's just how it is. He also lays out some reasoning as to the timing of this pre-order in his original post on this thread, no?

Nobody is making anyone pay up front for a knife that's currently in development. If we're pre-ordering, we're going in knowing that we'll receive the product, and in this particular case, we know we're going to be waiting a while. If that doesn't sound great, there's always the option to wait until the knife is done and available for purchase. Just make sure your internet connection is up to snuff. ;)

For what it's worth, I went in on the DEK1 pre-order, and I'm fortunate enough to be in a position where I could let that money go some months in advance. And I got my knife, and I am over the moon with it. It was a lot less stressful than when I had to gun for the OGFK and EDC... :p
 

The Amazing Virginian

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
7,865
Pre-order is always nice so one can get in on a knife they want. That being said, full cash up front is an absolutely horrible idea and poor practice. I know CPK has been around, but you will see it many places on BF that you should never pay up front for a knife. I ordered a custom from another maker recently who refused payment until it was done.

Looks like I’ll be missing out on this one for two reasons. You are doing a pre-order a week before Christmas in a year where many are financially strained, and on top of that you want all of the money up front.

This is just my opinion, and I’m sure some flaming will commence.
No flames.

However . . . consenting adults???
 

Pàdruig

Live and Let Die
Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
7,273
Pre-order is always nice so one can get in on a knife they want. That being said, full cash up front is an absolutely horrible idea and poor practice. I know CPK has been around, but you will see it many places on BF that you should never pay up front for a knife. I ordered a custom from another maker recently who refused payment until it was done.

Looks like I’ll be missing out on this one for two reasons. You are doing a pre-order a week before Christmas in a year where many are financially strained, and on top of that you want all of the money up front.

This is just my opinion, and I’m sure some flaming will commence.

No, my friend, flames aren't necessary. Under normal circumstances, I'd be in agreement but I do appreciate Nathan's transparency and though I am still waiting on my DEK1 pre-order, the Kephart is a must-have for me.

Until I am given a reason to believe otherwise, CPK has my trust.
 

Casinostocks

Factotum
Gold Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
11,837
Nathan, after all said and done, thank you for doing this preorder. I was going to post a thank you message in the I <3 Nathan thread, but I'm going to reserve judgement on that one till I see what Christmas present Sadie gets from you :p
 

Nathan the Machinist

KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
10,930
Pre-order is always nice so one can get in on a knife they want. That being said, full cash up front is an absolutely horrible idea and poor practice. I know CPK has been around, but you will see it many places on BF that you should never pay up front for a knife. I ordered a custom from another maker recently who refused payment until it was done.

Looks like I’ll be missing out on this one for two reasons. You are doing a pre-order a week before Christmas in a year where many are financially strained, and on top of that you want all of the money up front.

This is just my opinion, and I’m sure some flaming will commence.

No flames here. Drama-free zone here. This is the sort of contrary opinion I was looking for. I understand your sentiment and agree with it. I asked the question and had this been the general consensus that would have been the answer.

You're absolutely correct, it's a terrible practice and people shouldn't do it. And I tell new makers never do it. I'm quite the hypocrite.

Like most makers, I started out taking orders. And you get some emails that turn into a 20 message email chain. With orders that change and I'd make mistakes. Or I'd forget people. Or people would ghost. Managing lists is challenging if you're making 40 knives a year, but when you're making thousands it's impossible. I said "screw this I'm not doing it" and starting building what I wanted to make and selling it at 3:00 on Fridays. It got where I wasn't having a lot of problems selling what I was making. Then it got where the sales were so brisk that people were coming to the sales week after week and leaving empty handed and were mad. It was taking the fun out of it. It got where the secondary market on the knives was getting pretty ridiculous which was starting to attract flippers which was making the problem worse.

I had a popular pattern. The original Field knife I think. So, as an experiment I offered to add some people's orders to a run I was starting. With solid orders in hand I ordered extra steel and added their orders to my run. It was my first pre-order. Mind you, I didn't need or want a pre-order. I was having no problem making and selling whatever I wanted to make without pre-orders. This was originally done out of consideration for folks asking for it. And I didn't want to take orders, build the knives and track down the people who'd ordered them. That's fine as a hobbyist but I'm running a business. We are a machine shop with machinists. Dumb machinists. No customer support people. I'm not good at keeping up with order lists like that. And taking deposits is even worse because now you have to have multiple transactions. I know lots people do it that way, but I'll bet they're charging more for the work. My goal is high performance big bang-for-the-buck and I need to keep things simple for that to work in the long run. In the goal of keeping things simple I agreed to do pre-orders on the condition that the knife is paid for in advance, I build it, I ship it. Done. No changes, no bullshit. This is a terrible business practice but it is the only way I am willing to take orders outside of my regular Friday sales. Sure, there are plenty of people who don't want to order a knife that way. I get that. I relate. But there are no day-dreamers racking up countless emails either. I love our customers and I want to deliver the best work I can for them at a fair value. But I'm not good at keeping up with a lot of additional complexity and this is the simplest way of taking orders that I know that doesn't put me out of pocket accommodating other people's preferences.

One advantage beyond taking some of the stress out of the process and some of the steam out of the overly hot sales (look at the boot dagger for an example of this) is it also improves our business. It reduces risk to me undertaking larger runs without getting over extended and has helped our business grow, allowing more patterns and more available inventory for everyone. This is good for me and my family and my customers enjoy the improved variations made possible by the pre-order model and additional inventory keeping the flippers at bay and the product available at a fair price for the people who actually use them. This is different than the makers who use (and abuse) the pre-order concept to get an interest free loan and put risk onto the buyers in order to try to bootstrap themselves into a knife production company. I own my production capacity. I'm not buying it with money borrowed from a pre-order. And I'm not "new" to this and encumbered with a bad case of the Dunning Kruger effect where I'm going to take everybody's money and then crash in flames, I've been directly involved in manufacturing production since the 90's, I have a college degree, I own an incorporated machine shop with 5 heavy industrial CNC machining centers and some automatic grinders. I'm not the same as the makers who take people's money and then fail to get it all together to deliver. You see that failure again and again and it's almost a running gag in this industry. But we're in a different situation. So, while I acknowledge the gross hypocrisy of saying "don't do this" and then doing it myself, I'm giving people what they want and making it worthwhile to me too.
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2019
Messages
3
In the CAD file it appears that there may be a 90⁰ surface that spans an inch or so above the handle on one side. Is that as appears and something you are considering?
 
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