Bad PSA: Use CAUTION selling to BF buyer "LIN" (AKA Kai Zhao)

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Perhaps some good MAY come out of all this...

Bear with me for one moment.
A standard WRITTEN contract that is agreed to on ALL sales conducted thru this site.
Something that all members that deal here must agree to before each sale can be guaranteed. Like an EULA that has a check box system.

I understand this forums reputation is in the upper class as far as sales/trades but more members , and dealings mean more "potential" for mis-understandings.

Have the agreement absolve the forum owner(s)/staff from all liability, and easy to understand terms dictating conditions.
Waivers can have check boxes, and every member can either print or D'load the transaction. There can also be a record stored on this site.
Perhaps a couple of the legal eagle types here could help create such an agreement, and a software kind of guy could help implement the interactive bits... Maybe just a sticky where you D'load, and E-sign

Just a thought... sorry for distracting the thread.
 
Zombie411 said:
Perhaps some good MAY come out of all this...

Bear with me for one moment.
A standard WRITTEN contract that is agreed to on ALL sales conducted thru this site.
Something that all members that deal here must agree to before each sale can be guaranteed. Like an EULA that has a check box system.

I understand this forums reputation is in the upper class as far as sales/trades but more members , and dealings mean more "potential" for mis-understandings.

Have the agreement absolve the forum owner(s)/staff from all liability, and easy to understand terms dictating conditions.
Waivers can have check boxes, and every member can either print or D'load the transaction. There can also be a record stored on this site.
Perhaps a couple of the legal eagle types here could help create such an agreement, and a software kind of guy could help implement the interactive bits... Maybe just a sticky where you D'load, and E-sign

Just a thought... sorry for distracting the thread.
Click to expand...
Look as much as you think you know,this jiberish is just that jiberish. The site has ran great for a long time the way it is. Hiccups happen bad people happen and good people happen. Thank god the latter is in the majority. Sign this sign sign that wth. I had less bs that this would bring then in my divorce agreement. I got dinged replying to a post of yours and I'm ok with that I deserved it. But wholly hell man you are a expert on everything and if you aren't you sure know how to let eveveryone know how you are learning the ways here. Or a reader to understand what you think. Most of your 1st, 2nd and 3rd posts in a thread are saying one thing then all of a sudden you are called on it and you flip 180 to appease the masses. Hey man we all don't get along here that's it nothing else. Stop apologizing to mods and members be real this thing you have going isn't working for you this isn't me trolling you this is me speaking my mind
 
Zombie411 said:
Perhaps some good MAY come out of all this...

Bear with me for one moment.
A standard WRITTEN contract that is agreed to on ALL sales conducted thru this site.
Something that all members that deal here must agree to before each sale can be guaranteed. Like an EULA that has a check box system.

I understand this forums reputation is in the upper class as far as sales/trades but more members , and dealings mean more "potential" for mis-understandings.

Have the agreement absolve the forum owner(s)/staff from all liability, and easy to understand terms dictating conditions.
Waivers can have check boxes, and every member can either print or D'load the transaction. There can also be a record stored on this site.
Perhaps a couple of the legal eagle types here could help create such an agreement, and a software kind of guy could help implement the interactive bits... Maybe just a sticky where you D'load, and E-sign

Just a thought... sorry for distracting the thread.
Click to expand...

This forum has been around since the 1990's, I don't think there is any reason to reinvent the wheel. The rules are very clear and have worked for many years. Adding more legal verbiage and paperwork to BF transactions will only risk the venue that we all participate in.

All it comes down to is having informed buyers/sellers. This community is tightly knit, and the GBU shows this very clearly. There will always be bad apples on a tree, but that does not mean the entire tree has gone bad.
 
There are alot of people here that don't read the rules as it is. Adding more isn't going to get them to read more..much like the EULA's that you mention, most just sign it to get what they want and move on. Deal with the consequences later.

Speaking on this topic as a user, buyer and trader of knives (forget the mod title)- I personally would appreciate disclosure from a proxy buyer.
I could care less what country people are from.. You buy for someone else? Cool- when it get's to the CONUS address you specify, that ends my obligation as the seller. What happens to it after, that's on you. That's my piece of mind.
 
bhyde said:
There are alot of people here that don't read the rules as it is. Adding more isn't going to get them to read more..much like the EULA's that you mention, most just sign it to get what they want and move on. Deal with the consequences later.

Speaking on this topic as a user, buyer and trader of knives (forget the mod title)- I personally would appreciate disclosure from a proxy buyer.
I could care less what country people are from.. You buy for someone else? Cool- when it get's to the CONUS address you specify, that ends my obligation as the seller. What happens to it after, that's on you. That's my piece of mind.
Click to expand...

I will sometimes use a proxy in the USA if the seller is unwilling to send to Switzerland. Sometimes people are totally fine with it, but more often they refuse, or are at least very cautious.

My experience with being HONEST about my transactions here leads me to believe many people would be uncomfortable selling to someone outside of their country using a proxy (as a general rule).

Does that mean I would keep it secret so I had a better chance of getting what I want. Hell no!

If/when LIN discloses the fact that he is using a proxy, there is absolutely ZERO issue. None. Zilch.

If he only buys knives to burn in sacrifice to the blade gods, I don't care*. He bought em. They're his.

HONESTY is important in transactions. Being upfront is important in transactions.

If anyone would disagree with that, they shouldn't be buying and selling here.



*OK maybe a little
 
I have a feeling the reason Lin doesn't bother saying anything about the proxy address is the same reason he got one in the first place: so he doesn't scare off sellers. Both the ones who won't ship overseas, OR the ones who have a problem with a proxy address. It seems like he just wants to buy the knives smoothly and without trouble.

The trade-off is when you don't disclose it and a problem emerges, it could look dishonest after the fact.

Like Spyderphreak I'm curious what happens to the knives. It would be super interesting to know more about the "underground" demand for rare and badass foreign blades in China. :) Is it about attending knife and cutlery shows? Is it something as banal as a storefront? ...Or is it mysterious and exclusive, where you need to be in-the-know?
 
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bhyde said:
...

Speaking on this topic as a user, buyer and trader of knives (forget the mod title)- I personally would appreciate disclosure from a proxy buyer.
I could care less what country people are from.. You buy for someone else? Cool- when it get's to the CONUS address you specify, that ends my obligation as the seller. What happens to it after, that's on you. That's my piece of mind.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I think, too, when it comes to a proxy adress.
 
For all the comments about Lin being a proxy buyer, it sounds like he picks up the knives from the address we ship to. Isn't that much like me picking up my knives at my PO box?
 
No I dont think so. I read somewhere that sometimes he picks up at the proxy addy while other times knives are repackaged and shipped to China. If the former, then yes - nothing different. If the latter, then things could become vomplicated.
 
Still waiting on a Mod to answer my question. Keith basically asked the same thing.
This thread has some issues and implications.
 
Mecha said:
Like Spyderphreak I'm curious what happens to the knives. It would be super interesting to know more about the "underground" demand for rare and badass foreign blades in China. :) Is it about attending knife and cutlery shows? Is it something as banal as a storefront? ...Or is it mysterious and exclusive, where you need to be in-the-know?
Click to expand...

Yes! .. that's what I was wondering, too. Why is there some problem with LIN buying directly from the makers? Does LIN do "movie style hotel meetups" where he brings lined cases and the buyer looks over the merchandise before a clandestine transaction takes place, and both parties leave just minutes before the Gendarmes arrive? Does LIN know the buyer because he's in the lobby reading an upside down newspaper? Do you have to know a guy who knows a guy who knows LIN?
https://imgur.com/a/B6CYr
 
Gastonknife said:
Still waiting on a Mod to answer my question. Keith basically asked the same thing.
This thread has some issues and implications.
Click to expand...

Issues and implications-

SpyderPhreak SpyderPhreak started this thread to let everyone know that @LIN is a proxy buyer with permission from @Spark
IMHO, that information should have been the PSA- Where it gets sideways and some people are getting a bit butthurt about is the emotional investment Spyder put into it about knives checking into China and not checking out. Another point of contention is that Spyder may be mad that he missed some knife purchases due to LIN and thus starts this thread never having purchased from LIN.

Let's not speculate on Spyders motive- the only person so far that knows that is Spyder (Jared) and I seriously doubt that particular motivation having read his posts for many years. He buys what he wants from what I know. The most important part that some are continually missing is the bolded part in the previous paragraph.

If the implication you are talking about is that people outside of any exchange transaction can start a thread bashing another- Well, it depends- Do they have permission from the site owner? What's the context? The mods here are usually pretty quick to jump in and give an answer- but this one is a bit more complex.
Right now, I am going to say beware that starting threads here when you had no skin in the game is not really a good idea...but don't forget that bolded part up top either.
 
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Lone_Wolfe said:
For all the comments about Lin being a proxy buyer, it sounds like he picks up the knives from the address we ship to. Isn't that much like me picking up my knives at my PO box?
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When shipping to a PO box it is obvious one is doing so. It is a legit point though because there are private mail box places that if you did not know they are such you would think the address was an apartment building or something. My wife had one for years. Confused the hell out of people. Should a seller be informed when sending a knife to a place like this? I don't think so but who knows.

It still boils down to upfront communication which Lin did not provide during the transaction in question. Then he takes the knife across the planet and wants to file a claim? That won't work for a lot of people here.
 
The proxy address wouldn't even be as much of an issue if LIN hadn't filed the paypal claim the way he did last time. The way he handled it left the seller with no way to recover for damages that he paid to have insurance against. That's really the only thing that bugged me about that whole ordeal. I can understand that he may not want to go through all the back and forth conversations explaining his particular scenario to every seller he buys from, but he should be willing to accept all responsibility if there's no damage reported once something reaches the address he provided, and he failed to accept that responsibility in the transaction with Bobby.
 
The proxy should at the very least be unpackaging, checking, taking and sending pics to LIN, etc, so that if there's some damage the blade is still stateside and at the original delivery address. That shouldn't be hard to do at all and then any issues would be caught and properly insured.
 
-Corey- said:
The proxy address wouldn't even be as much of an issue if LIN hadn't filed the paypal claim the way he did last time. The way he handled it left the seller with no way to recover for damages that he paid to have insurance against. That's really the only thing that bugged me about that whole ordeal. I can understand that he may not want to go through all the back and forth conversations explaining his particular scenario to every seller he buys from, but he should be willing to accept all responsibility if there's no damage reported once something reaches the address he provided, and he failed to accept that responsibility in the transaction with Bobby.
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And all that's been hashed out in the previous thread, which makes this one seem redundant.
 
I agree, I don't think it was necessary to bring it back up. If anything, a general conversation could've been started to address the issue, but I think it was in poor taste to call the man out by name for something that happened a year ago, has since been resolved, and didn't involve the op to begin with.
 
-Corey- said:
I agree, I don't think it was necessary to bring it back up. If anything, a general conversation could've been started to address the issue, but I think it was in poor taste to call the man out by name for something that happened a year ago, has since been resolved, and didn't involve the op to begin with.
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I agree.
 
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