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How To Put an End to the F&F and +% in the exchange.

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by NJBillK, May 20, 2017.

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  1. NJBillK

    NJBillK Custom Leather and Fixed Blade modifications.

    Mar 27, 2014
    Sellers: Stop the add x% for fees and requesting F&F or lose potential sales.
    ----------
    This is a call out to everyone that has a distaste for seeing F&F and "add x%" in the exchange threads.

    • If you want to (but don't) purchase a knife because the seller has F&F or add x% stipulations, shoot them a conversation and say you would have bought it, but won't due to them asking for F&F or added fees.
    • If you still do choose to buy the knife, I suggest you tell them you will pay their stated amount, but only with G&S and will not be adding the funds requested.
    (If this causes them to decline, they will be throwing away the sale.)
    • In your conversation, send them a link to this thread, or at least tell them about it.
    ----------
    ----------
    Let's actually let folks know that there is a measurable community here that doesn't like this practice.


    • That being said, From here on out, if you choose to sell as stated above, I will not buy from you.
    If I want your item(s), I will offer your stated price but paying G&S only with Zero fees added. If this costs you the sale, it is of your own doing.
    • I will send a link to this thread to those that I would have done business with as an explanation why I am not doing so.

    The mods are busy enough, and the exchange is our marketplace. We should be the ones to Urge for the change we want!
    Who else wants to push for this change?


    Edit to add: If you crap in a person's sales thread, you will get an infraction. So don't go on a rampage giving people the bidness in their threads.
    RD
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2017
  2. RayseM

    RayseM Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 18, 2010
    Hear! Hear! :thumbsup:

    Will do!

    Ray
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
    Mike Griffin and Polynikes01 like this.
  3. trevitrace

    trevitrace Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Well stated. I'm in.
     
    Mike Griffin likes this.
  4. The Zieg

    The Zieg

    Jan 31, 2002
    Hear, hear!

    Zieg
     
  5. Hopweaver

    Hopweaver Gold Member Gold Member

    94
    Apr 26, 2016
    I agree. I have passed on a couple of knives because the seller says "add extra for G&S". I would prefer they raise the price and say all PayPal fees included. That's what I do.
     
  6. EyeDog

    EyeDog Semper Fi

    Feb 10, 2014
    This is my #1 pet peeve about knife sites. State your price and be done with it. I wish FF were not permitted and charging % was not permitted. You don't get an FF option on eBay.
     
  7. jc57

    jc57 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 28, 2012
    It is not permitted. They are violating the PayPal agreement they agreed to when they signed up for the service. BF has decided that it is not their business, and leave it up to the buyers to deal with it.

    I am a member of another forum where the forum rules state specifically that your sales posts can't violate the PayPal rules by asking for additional fees or charging less for some other option if also accepting PayPal.

    If it is a posted rule and enforced by forum staff, then it pretty quickly becomes the cultural norm and the forum staff doesn't have to spend much time enforcing - the members will do it for them.

    I personally won't make a purchase using F&F, though I usually just tack on the extra fees that the seller asks. I consider that in determining whether I think something is worth the price or not.

    As long as there are enough buyers who want to save the extra few dollars, at the risk of having no recourse if the deal goes bad, then it won't matter if a few people refuse to buy from the sellers. They only need one buyer per sale.

    If they made it a forum rule, publicized it, and with the penalty being deleting the for sale thread, with an infraction, plus suspending selling privileges for some period of time (increasing in duration per violation), it would take about 2-4 weeks before it would become the standard practice and unquestioned by most.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
    bud1911 and WValtakis like this.
  8. hhmoore

    hhmoore Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 7, 2014
    @NJBillK
    I have messaged a number of sellers, stating almost that exact thing. Some choose to accept G&S, and/or drop the fee stipulation; some do not. Some act offended; others state they didn't know it was an issue, and they post that way because that's what they're used to seeing.
    I have stated in other threads that it is up to the membership to stop this... if the buyers choose to stop going along with it, the sellers will stop out of necessity.
    I would love to see it adopted as an official policy, though I don't have much hope of that happening. I think there would be little need for the moderators to search out those violations, as the membership would report them...but I also understand the time involved with checking & dealing with those reports. In the end, I think it will be up to the membership...and I'm afraid that too many buyers don't want to risk their purchases by engaging in that conversation.
     
  9. fishface5

    fishface5 Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 3, 2001
    I never understand - why do people who wouldn't steal gas, or candy etc, think it's ok to use paypal but not pay for it??
     
    SpySmasher, BD_01 and JohnWE like this.
  10. JohnWE

    JohnWE

    853
    Dec 7, 2013
    Cognitive dissonance and simple denial are both very powerful.
     
  11. The Fort

    The Fort Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 11, 2012
    Great idea Bill! I've never conformed to any sales with those stipulations.
     
  12. ChazzyP

    ChazzyP Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Dec 27, 2014
    I never pay or sell F&F and always make an offer to pay G&S at the price quoted net. I don't think that all those quoting "net to me" prices are necessarily looking for F&F payment--they may be simply parroting what they see in other threads.

    At the very least, net pricing is an annoying and lazy practice. Circumventing BF's stated policy and violating Paypal's rules by transacting F&F for goods sold and purchased is both foolish and dishonest. :thumbsdown:

    Unfortunately, it's too much work for the Mods to enforce a prohibition against this practice and doing so would raise havoc with the BF Exchange, which, to me, is the best way to buy knives there is. We should all do our part to eliminate the net ask and to support the proper use of Paypal, which provides an excellent way to pay for private transactions. :thumbsup:
     
    palonej likes this.
  13. hhmoore

    hhmoore Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 7, 2014
    I didn't directly link to this thread (too lazy to open another window on my phone), but I did reference it in a message to a seller this morning.
     
    palonej, NJBillK and BD_01 like this.
  14. stonesell

    stonesell Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 20, 2009
    I'm thinking that this thread will have a stong influence on how members present their sale items.
    Great idea!
     
  15. HappyDaddy

    HappyDaddy Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 21, 2013
    Good idea. Personally, I've never bought into the "official" BFC position - "It's not our job to enforce PayPal's policies." Anyone who takes F&F for goods and services is a thief. BFC shouldn't permit sellers who advertise and practice their thievery to make use of the site.
     
  16. WValtakis

    WValtakis Hand Engraving, Anodizing and Embellishment Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    May 29, 2004
    I still would like to see an official rule change (and agree the extra work would die down quickly), but in the meantime this is a great idea.

    ~Chip
     
    SpySmasher likes this.
  17. palonej

    palonej Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Aug 5, 2015
    On the Exchange yesterday with a pocket full of money....great feeling!!
    On the first page, ind folders, there were at least 8 threads requesting F&F or add %.
    I just breeze on by. Few sales lost yesterday. Guess I should've messaged the sellers, but I did that once and wound up in an argument.
    Joe
     
  18. NJBillK

    NJBillK Custom Leather and Fixed Blade modifications.

    Mar 27, 2014
    Thanks for voicing your opinions, showing your support and actively demonstrating the practice.

    The more that folks post that they are in support, and the more sellers know that it isn't appreciated and is actually looked down upon, the less common it will be.

    This also could have a small impact that would help promote the changing of the official stance and rules about this on the forum.
    So let's keep this going.
     
    palonej likes this.
  19. lieferung

    lieferung Basic Member Basic Member

    May 24, 2016
    I would message the seller first and request to pay the fair price - whatever they're asking, no additional fees. If they refuse, I would pass. This thread is a good idea, I will link to it should I ever need to.
     
  20. jc57

    jc57 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 28, 2012
    I guess if a seller is willing to defraud PayPal to make a few extra dollars off of a sale, you should still trust them completely in their descriptions of the quality and condition of the knife they are trying to unload sell.
     
    palonej, ChazzyP and stonesell like this.
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