How To Put an End to the F&F and +% in the exchange.

Status
Not open for further replies.
The seller to which I referred earlier contacted me, saying if I was serious about buying we had a deal. I thought about it for a moment, then replied:
I was very serious; but, as I said, my message was not about negotiation... it was about letting you know your terms cost you a sale, and why.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I wanted to make the purchase - both of the items were things for which I've looking - but it wouldn't have helped make the point. A lost sale can't be regained that easily... (in this case, the fee would have been a mere $3.20). Of course, if somebody comes along later today & buys them, the point will likely be lost anyway.

I went back and provided a link to this thread... people are more likely to follow a link than search for a thread, especially in a situation like this.
 
My man. I'm still a newbie hereabouts; and if there is any question in my mind, I always just default to "Tell the mods." Thank you for providing two points of education for me: the first is that we, the users, have at least some ownership and with that, some leadership potential, to effect change. The second is the more specific "don't use F&F". I am absolutely on board with this idea!

I would like to suggest that admins, owners, and mods still have an incumbency to set a "NO F&F" rule and to enforce that rule. They are also users; that makes them owners. They clearly have more leadership potential than me as well, and are ethically compelled, IMO, to fix this problem as much as the rest of us.

Somebody stated that this cannot be enforced, because it is a problem with integrity, and you can't enforce integrity. That, as stated, is true. However, I don't care about enforcing integrity, I care about enforcing specific behaviors which have been allowed to become accepted because of a lack of integrity.

I'd also like to ask your opinion on a tactic: I see a few folks who clearly are trying to make quite a bit of cash from the Exchange. They are abusing the F&F payments. What would happen if somebody reported them to the IRS on grounds of potential tax evasion by hiding income?

Again, many thanks for your inspired and rational approach to this problem. Superb.
 
Message the seller and let them know you want the item for whatever the price listed in the ad is. If they come back with "add 3%", say "no, I want it for the advertised price, yes or no?" If they decline, they just lost a sure sale.
 
Another option for those sellers that list their PayPal address in the ad... report them to PayPal for TOS violations.

~Chip
 
2C6E4E8A-DA13-4BCD-9EE3-7EFCBB3412EC_zps1q7mlow0.jpg
 
WValtakis said:
Another option for those sellers that list their PayPal address in the ad... report them to PayPal for TOS violations.

~Chip
Click to expand...
I've done that in the past..obviously PayPal doesn't tell you about what action they take/or don't; but I never saw any indication that they'd done anything. Of course, there was no transaction to cite, which may have been the issue.
 
Totally agree. It's gotta be just mostly parroting. Drives me crazy seeing "F&F" and "net to me".
 
The silly thing about all this is that it's 3% so I've always inferred it was more about encouraging s F&F transaction than the money. It's such a negligible amount of any sale but it adds an extra step and another possible thing to disagree about so I'd just rather not deal with it. "Hey, you shorted me on the extra $.30 for the PayPal fee" is something I've heard happen here. Who needs that?
 
I have a question that I'm surprised nobody has ever asked. Or maybe there's just something I'm missing.

In my sales threads I always state the price followed by "including shipping and Paypal fees". When giving my Paypal address by PM or email I always insist that the buyer use Goods & Services. I never state "add 3% to cover the fees" but honestly, I'm still making the buyer pay the fees. I just don't say it in so many words because I add the fees into my price.

Since the buyer is still compensating me for the fees, would that be considered a violation of Paypal TOS?
 
I think your scenario would only be a violation if you offered a discount for other forms of payment.

~Chip
 
NJBillK said:
Sellers: Stop the add x% for fees and requesting F&F or lose potential sales.
Click to expand...

This is ridiculous.

So some potential buyers think its great if a seller says "the price is $103 with free shipping and I'll eat the Paypal fee", but they get their panties bunched up if the seller says "the price is $100 with free shipping; please at 3% for Paypal".

Newsflash: $103 = $103. Its same dang price!

This just demonstrates how kooky the human mind can be, and why ad agencies and marketing are so effective. Its the same price either way. But say it one way, and the buyer thinks he got a great deal. Say the other way, its he is incensed! Them is fightin' words!

Sweet Mother of Pearl. This is probably the dumbest thing that ever pops up on BF. Second dumbest is "two is one and one is none" - which is self-stultifying - but that's for another thread. Honorable mention for dumb goes to 1) those stupid paracord bracelets that guys wear solely to make themselves look outdoorsy, and 2) SOS modes on lights (that no one in the history of mankind has ever used). I could go on, but someone might get grumpy.

Moderators: please place this post in the BF Hall of Fame, along with all of my other posts. Thanks.


 
And one more dumb thing. Unless I'm missing it, you can't edit your posts for spelling. Add that to the list.
 
Some nice chap told me the edit button was next to the Report link, but I still don't see it. :)
 
powernoodle said:
This is ridiculous.

So some potential buyers think its great if a seller says "the price is $103 with free shipping and I'll eat the Paypal fee", but they get their panties bunched up if the seller says "the price is $100 with free shipping; please at 3% for Paypal".

Newsflash: $103 = $103. Its same dang price!

This just demonstrates how kooky the human mind can be, and why ad agencies and marketing are so effective. Its the same price either way. But say it one way, and the buyer thinks he got a great deal. Say the other way, its he is incensed! Them is fightin' words!

Sweet Mother of Pearl. This is probably the dumbest thing that ever pops up on BF. Second dumbest is "two is one and one is none" - which is self-stultifying - but that's for another thread. Honorable mention for dumb goes to 1) those stupid paracord bracelets that guys wear solely to make themselves look outdoorsy, and 2) SOS modes on lights (that no one in the history of mankind has ever used). I could go on, but someone might get grumpy.

Moderators: please place this post in the BF Hall of Fame, along with all of my other posts. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I was kind of getting at the same thing in post number 31 above but you said it better than I could. In both cases the only person eating the fees is the buyer.

I think the problem that most people have with the second scenario is that it's inconsiderate to ask the buyer to do the math.
 
powernoodle said:
Some nice chap told me the edit button was next to the Report link, but I still don't see it. :)
Click to expand...



Not only is it inconsiderate to ask the buyer to do the math, some people inflate the fees ( and it opens the door to "F&F discount" drama)

~Chip
 
Last edited:
powernoodle said:
Newsflash: $103 = $103. Its same dang price!
Click to expand...

There is one difference, though it isn't the price.

The difference lies in fact that the Buyer is often the one doing the seller what amounts to a favor. So the Seller can at least do the trivial amount of mathematics to take any question or doubt out of the equation.

Also, there has been varying percentages stated as standard PayPal "fees" from uninformed parties on both sides of the deal. Add in shipping which changes in cost depending on insurance levels, and type of parcel.

If you do not agree that the Buyer is the one helping out the Seller, you must not have heard the old add age "The Customer is always right." nor made it far in the retail world. To go even further, even if the Seller is flipping for profit (which the Buyer is doing More if a favor, if quantifiable), The Seller should be bending over backwards to make sure the Buyer is happy.

To that, if the Seller can't be bothered to do some simple math to potentially put a buyer at a slight bit of ease, or lower apprehension, why would I deal with and cater to a mindset like that?

I can't be bothered to deal with a seller that can't be bothered.

Edits were grammatical, content wasn't changed meaningfully otherwise.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top