Queen purchase finalized!

[Boggs]

Thanks Charlie I knew you'd understand......now this doesn't mean you can now come out with a newly designed Barlow Harness Jack Congress knife next time............

 

[jazub]

Very exciting to see these new production patterns from Queen coming through in stainless. :thumbup::thumbup: I'll be keeping an eye out for a pattern that strikes my fancy -hoping for a Sowbelly soon.

 

[Modoc ED]

If Queen/Ryan can give me a knife with a minimal gaps and an edge that is useable out of the box, I'll start buying them again. The edge out of the box should be fairly decent because if someone needs a knife right away so to speak, then they should be able to use it as it comes but be ready to finish sharpen the knife when they get home or back to the shop.

I have some really solid knives from Queen/Schatt & Morgan from the past and like them very much. Very solid. Here's a Schatt & Morgan I used to have from I think 2009 (maybe 2008). Great solid little knife. Give me knives with this quality and I'll buy them all day long.

Oh, Elliot's Nun would not make a good graphic for Queen's new packaging.

 

[pinnah]

You've just bought a new car. The dealer hands you the keys and says, “Enjoy you new Rolls, Mr. Pinnah. All you have to do is take it home, adjust the timing, and replace the clutch. Then you’re good to go!”

Is this okay with you? It wouldn't be okay with me.

I don't think that is a good analogy.

Here's a better analogy.

Most high end bicycles these days are sold with either junky disposable pedals or no pedals at all. When you drop $2000 on a new race bike (this is cheap, btw) it is entirely expected that you will take it home and install pedals of your choice on it before you ride it. The reason for this is that riders have a huge difference of opinion on what type of pedals they prefer. It is also expected that the new buyer will pump up his or her tires before he or she rides it. This is because all lightweight bike tires & tubes slowly lose air and any competent cyclists just needs to be able keep their tires properly inflated.

I think this is better analogy because knife users have different opinions on how to sharpen a knife and really need to have a basic level of competency to sharpen a knife.

I sold and repaired bikes for many, many years and have seen the shift in the market that you are referring to. Increasingly, people want to buy things and have an iPad type experience where the thing just auto-magically does everything for you with no demand or expectations of the user. The internet with its pictures and constant persevarating on false indicators of manufacturing quality as a means of displaying our highly tuned discriminating purchasing prowess and self-worth just drive the demand for such non-sense right up through the roof.

Did you see the movie Wall-E? All those people floating around on their lounge chairs and sipping their Big Gulps and having the clothes colors changed for them? I believe there is a cut scene on the DVD of 2 of those people extolling the virtues of how sharp their knives were out of the box.

To me, a new knife is like a bike sold with no pedals (increasingly this is the case). It's more honest, upfront and respectful imo. It's the knife maker saying, "I know that you know enough about how to use this product that we'll just trust that you'll take it home and sharpen it the way you want it."

 

[richstag]

I don't think that is a good analogy.

Here's a better analogy.

Most high end bicycles these days are sold with either junky disposable pedals or no pedals at all. When you drop $2000 on a new race bike (this is cheap, btw) it is entirely expected that you will take it home and install pedals of your choice on it before you ride it. The reason for this is that riders have a huge difference of opinion on what type of pedals they prefer. It is also expected that the new buyer will pump up his or her tires before he or she rides it. This is because all lightweight bike tires & tubes slowly lose air and any competent cyclists just needs to be able keep their tires properly inflated.

I think this is better analogy because knife users have different opinions on how to sharpen a knife and really need to have a basic level of competency to sharpen a knife.

I sold and repaired bikes for many, many years and have seen the shift in the market that you are referring to. Increasingly, people want to buy things and have an iPad type experience where the thing just auto-magically does everything for you with no demand or expectations of the user. The internet with its pictures and constant persevarating on false indicators of manufacturing quality as a means of displaying our highly tuned discriminating purchasing prowess and self-worth just drive the demand for such non-sense right up through the roof.

Did you see the movie Wall-E? All those people floating around on their lounge chairs and sipping their Big Gulps and having the clothes colors changed for them? I believe there is a cut scene on the DVD of 2 of those people extolling the virtues of how sharp their knives were out of the box.

To me, a new knife is like a bike sold with no pedals (increasingly this is the case). It's more honest, upfront and respectful imo. It's the knife maker saying, "I know that you know enough about how to use this product that we'll just trust that you'll take it home and sharpen it the way you want it."

I agree with this analogy in a way. When I bought my first decent bike ten years ago it came with clipless XTR pedals. The top ones for shimano, but I switched them out to regular 20 dollar pedals. I was not comfortable with clipless at the time. Now I am and its funny you say people like different pedals, I went with cheaper clipless, but they work PERFECT for me. Say queen started sending out knives with bark river like zero convex edges. LOTS of people would be lost on how to properly keep the edge up or resharpen. But, without pedals you can't ride your bike and without an edge you can't cut things. Trust me, I agree 100 percent that people should learn to sharpen, I feel it is the most important thing above all else in the knife hobby. I do understand guys that just want a knife with an edge they can keep up with crock sticks or a standard sharpmaker without a hassle though.

 

[Cisco Kid]

Pinnah, if you go with the bike analogy, I wouldn't buy a bike that I couldn't ride out of the shop. In general, anytime I buy an item I expect it to be able to perform the task it's intended for right out of the box. Perhaps I've been spoiled by the likes of Spyderco and Bark River, but when I buy a knife I expect it to be shaving sharp (unless it's a really cheap knife, for which there are no expectations).

 

[richstag]

Pinnah, if you go with the bike analogy, I wouldn't buy a bike that I couldn't ride out of the shop. In general, anytime I buy an item I expect it to be able to perform the task it's intended for right out of the box. Perhaps I've been spoiled by the likes of Spyderco and Bark River, but when I buy a knife I expect it to be shaving sharp (unless it's a really cheap knife, for which there are no expectations).

If you walk into a bike shop all the bikes are missing the pedals though. He is correct that is how they do it now at high end bike shops.

 

[Cisco Kid]

If you walk into a bike shop all the bikes are missing the pedals though. He is correct that is how they do it now at high end bike shops.

LOL, then I guess I would have to buy the pedals, too.

 

[confucius37]

While I agree that it a new knife doesn't need to have a laser edge out of the box, my biggest concern with Queen is that a few of their knives I received had no edge at all, I mean it was as if they just started slicing right into a sharpening stone to dull the blade on purpose. This is unacceptable to me because I'm not fond of spending hours grinding an edge on a knife, its like they just didn't complete the last step of making a knife.

Additionally, my biggest concern with Queen is that they start using a thinner and EVEN grind. Many of the Queen examples I have are so thick behind the edge they just don't slice and what's more, many times they grind is uneven, I use the same technique to sharpen all my knives and Queen has been the only one where the edge has been very uneven from side to side. I've shown this picture before, but look at the size of the bevel on this knife, this is at about 35-37 degrees inclusive.

 

[Doug Add]

I don't think that is a good analogy.

Here's a better analogy.

Agree and disagree.

I go along with your bike analogy for knife enthusiasts like the people who populate this forum.

But I don't think it holds for the general knife-buying public. For those folks, people who just want a knife that fulfills its intended purpose, I believe the car analogy is apt.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

As far as knives are concerned, if you are paying for a knife, you should at least have a good grind on your knife, if not a full razor sharp edge. In my honest opinion, any company that deliberately puts knives out there without a finished edge, to the regular market, is doing a disservice to their base. Anyone that can sharpen can put their own edge on after they get home.

I'll be the first to admit I still have a long way to go in learning how to sharpen . I definitely want my blades to come scary sharp brand new.

The last few Queens I have gotten new, most of them were pretty sharp. I realize that we're probably not going to see the high quality of GEC, at the Queen price point (maybe not even the Schatt and Morgan price point).

I have done business face to face with Ryan before at shows. He knows his product, he remembers and knows his customers, and seems to have a genuine fondness for knives. I have no problem giving them a few hard earned dollars, misspellings and all .

 

[Blues]

Sticking with knives, I think all knives, whether custom or production, should be delivered with a good serviceable edge ready to be employed. What the user does after that is his affair.

 

[richstag]

Sticking with knives, I think all knives, whether custom or production, should be delivered with a good serviceable edge ready to be employed. What the user does after that is his affair.

Exactly, because if the customer uses the knife the customer will HAVE to learn to sharpen it sooner or later. IMHO

 

[pinnah]

I think it's more important to have a serviceable edge on cheap knives meant for beginners. SAKs should have a decent edge. Use it till it dull, which is right about the time the scales fall off and then buy a new one. (Cheap bikes are sold with pedals so people can ride them out of the store - same principle).

Vic, I'm not sure what I'm looking at in your picture. I've found that I've had to adjust how I sharpen knives to different grinds. At 20 degrees, I have a very small bevel on my Opinels owing to the convex grind. My Bucks with a concave hollow grind produce a larger bevel and require a secondary bevel at 17 degrees and some convexing of that shoulder to slice in wood well. My older 70s Bucks had a very thick grind and required even more of a secondary bevel (at 17 degrees) to thin it out.

I agree that uneven grinds are simply bad, btw.

 

[akadave2]

Getting a decent edge on a new knife out of the box has been hit or miss with me. I have some Case knives that all they need is a lick or two on my Sharpmaker and they are ready for carry, some need a new profile altogether. Its not just Case, it Schatt & Morgan, Queen, and some of my GECs

 

[pinnah]

Agree and disagree.

I go along with your bike analogy for knife enthusiasts like the people who populate this forum.

But I don't think it holds for the general knife-buying public. For those folks, people who just want a knife that fulfills its intended purpose, I believe the car analogy is apt.

We're not far off.

What kind of people buy from Queen?

 

[Doug Add]

We're not far off.

What kind of people buy from Queen?

True. I lost sight of this discussion being about Queen knives, and was speaking about knives in general.

 

[caseknife64]

I believe any new knife should be sharp enough to cut easily right out of the box. If this wasnt so, a newbie to say the slipjoint scene would try a Queen out, have a rough time slicing cardboard, then pick up a rough rider and slice right through. Which one would he brag to his friends is much sharper and better overall?

 

[Raymond1000]

I don't think that is a good analogy.

Here's a better analogy.

Most high end bicycles these days are sold with either junky disposable pedals or no pedals at all. When you drop $2000 on a new race bike (this is cheap, btw) it is entirely expected that you will take it home and install pedals of your choice on it before you ride it. The reason for this is that riders have a huge difference of opinion on what type of pedals they prefer. It is also expected that the new buyer will pump up his or her tires before he or she rides it. This is because all lightweight bike tires & tubes slowly lose air and any competent cyclists just needs to be able keep their tires properly inflated.

I think this is better analogy because knife users have different opinions on how to sharpen a knife and really need to have a basic level of competency to sharpen a knife.

I sold and repaired bikes for many, many years and have seen the shift in the market that you are referring to. Increasingly, people want to buy things and have an iPad type experience where the thing just auto-magically does everything for you with no demand or expectations of the user. The internet with its pictures and constant persevarating on false indicators of manufacturing quality as a means of displaying our highly tuned discriminating purchasing prowess and self-worth just drive the demand for such non-sense right up through the roof.

Did you see the movie Wall-E? All those people floating around on their lounge chairs and sipping their Big Gulps and having the clothes colors changed for them? I believe there is a cut scene on the DVD of 2 of those people extolling the virtues of how sharp their knives were out of the box.

To me, a new knife is like a bike sold with no pedals (increasingly this is the case). It's more honest, upfront and respectful imo. It's the knife maker saying, "I know that you know enough about how to use this product that we'll just trust that you'll take it home and sharpen it the way you want it."

If there is a knife shop that depends on knife enthusiasts for its business, it is Busse. Members of the Busse crowd regularly adjust the edge on a Battle Mistress or a Chopwiler to suit their purposes.

Yet the Busse site had many complaints about knives coming dull from the shop. Eventually Jerry started putting good working edges on his blades, to great acclaim.

 

[Bob W]

Is there any reason to be concerned about shortages or interruptions in production? Seems that some dealers have a large number of "Out of stock" Queen models.
Any worries that Queen prices will rise to GEC or Tuna Valley levels?

Maybe I should pick up a couple more Amber Stag Bone fixed blades in D2 just in case...