Queen purchase finalized!

Just look at all the previous forum knives from various makers. Not only are they well thought-out designs by the members here but the companies that take the commission often do an excellent job of execution, fit and finish. So it's definitely within these companies capabilities to listen to the audience here and meet our expectations. The million dollar question is if they are or not?

But why re-invent the wheel? Although I am very pleased with my latest (and first) GEC it took my an awful long time to find the pattern I actually liked from them. A lot of them didn't speak to me whatsoever and the sheer amount of patterns seemed convoluted, redundant, or had me scratching my head.

You don't need dozens upon dozens of unique patterns that take design queues from other patterns. Instead, offer 8 classic patterns in the steels/handle material we want and the and fit and finish that we've come to expect. That would be a home run right there! They wouldn't be able to keep them on their shelves long enough.
 
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sierra11b said:
You don't need dozens upon dozens of unique patterns that take design queues from other patterns. Instead, offer 8 classic patterns in the steels/handle material we want and the and fit and finish that we've come to expect.
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There are currently 89 people reading the Traditional forum. I bet if you polled each of them you'd get at least 50 different favorite patterns, twenty different favorite steels, and 60 different favorite handle materials. We're funny like that. :D
 
Bob W said:
There are currently 89 people reading the Traditional forum. I bet if you polled each of them you'd get at least 50 different favorite patterns, twenty different favorite steels, and 60 different favorite handle materials. We're funny like that. :D
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True. but imagine a company that could continuously offer half a dozen classic patterns and meet the criteria I posted in my previous paragraph and under the tightest QC. They could save the limited edition runs by polling us here and sell all before they're even off the drawing board. Then once that lot is completely sold start another LE, then another, and so forth.

I may be getting off topic but a guy can dream, right? :D
 
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The other problem is that most knife purchases are by habitual buyers - collectors, accumulators, etc. If a company only makes eight patterns, it'll be difficult to bring in those multiple sales. If each serious collector only bought eight Queen knives, they'd have to close shop.
Or someone searching for a particular pattern, they aren't likely to find it among such a small selection.

More patterns = more sales.
 
Bob.......

You got that right ....and Sierra that's why in theory the idea sounds like it could get traction but in practice it's negated immediately.......it's not cost effective
 
There are reasons that Great Eastern, for example, can live off of a limited pattern selection.
- First, although they only produce a limited amount of patterns at any one time, they are constantly releasing new and altered patterns. They couldn't survive long-term on a small but static product line.
- Second, they charge twice as much as other traditional companies. Higher profit margin.
- They can charge more because their quality is viewed as superior. (I have limited personal experience with them)
- They produce uncommon patterns. Although this means that mainstream Barlow and Stockman shoppers will go elsewhere, it also means they have the market cornered on any pattern they do run; they are never competing head-to-head with Case, Boker, or Rough Rider.
 
quattromori said:
Roland,
I often wondered whether the more "boutique" knife companies (Queen, Canal Street, GEC) have any sort of "traditionalists' team" (outside the owner/designer) to give opinions before a project gets into production. I know that we all have different opinions on any topic, but for niche companies I guess it would be a plus.

Fausto
:cool:
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GEC has a traditionalist on their team, and consults with antique knife enthusiasts (some who are antiques themselves!):D
 
Bob W said:
There are reasons that Great Eastern, for example, can live off of a limited pattern selection.
- First, although they only produce a limited amount of patterns at any one time, they are constantly releasing new and altered patterns. They couldn't survive long-term on a small but static product line.
- Second, they charge twice as much as other traditional companies. Higher profit margin.
- They can charge more because their quality is viewed as superior. (I have limited personal experience with them)
- They produce uncommon patterns. Although this means that mainstream Barlow and Stockman shoppers will go elsewhere, it also means they have the market cornered on any pattern they do run; they are never competing head-to-head with Case, Boker, or Rough Rider.
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I don't think GEC has that much of a profit margin. They charge more because they are a smaller shop with older equipment and more hands on work..thats why their knives are expensive. Case knives are cheaper because alot of their work is automated.
 
Vandal783 said:
I don't think GEC has that much of a profit margin. They charge more because they are a smaller shop with older equipment and more hands on work..thats why their knives are expensive. Case knives are cheaper because alot of their work is automated.
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Case can also order larger quantities and pay a reduced price. Higher volume = lower cost per item as well. There are lots of factors involved, that's for sure.
 
Vandal783 said:
I don't think GEC has that much of a profit margin. They charge more because they are a smaller shop with older equipment and more hands on work..thats why their knives are expensive. Case knives are cheaper because alot of their work is automated.
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i believe the knives are handled and assembled by individuals at each stage, and ive heard rumour of Case having old equipment which may or may not be contributing to the QC problems they have from time to time. I believe Fanglekai is on the right track with case being able to keep some lines affordable.
i could be wrong but it was my understanding that all knives are hand assembled regardless of manufacturer, country of origin, etc.
regards
gene
 
Vandal783 said:
I don't think GEC has that much of a profit margin. They charge more because they are a smaller shop with older equipment and more hands on work..thats why their knives are expensive. Case knives are cheaper because alot of their work is automated.
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Not so. There are only so many operations you can do by hand in making large quantities of knives and still make a profit. I very strongly suggest that you watch the "How it's Made" episode where they show the making of a pocket knife from raw sheetmetal blanks stock to final finish. They are actually filming inside the CASE factory itself.

Without belaboring the point, you easily realize the game comes down to quality control of the final product. The pieces are die cut (blades, spacers, backsprings, etc.). The blades are robotically ground. Pieces are polished in a large tumbler, then assembled in a jig. They are pinned together with scales, and everything that doesn't look like the model they are after is sanded off. Then a final polish.

I seriously doubt that GEC cuts every blade by hand, grinds the geometry of the blade by hand, cuts liners/spacers/backsprings/lockbars by hand, polishes all parts from scratch by hand, hand jigs bone, or anything else could be and should be done by a machine.

GEC et al., turns out a good product that could be used if need be as some do, and perform quite well. But I would a huge amount of their product sits in drawers and safe places. Why would you use the "Stagecoach limited edition Courthouse model with African Blackwood scales" that was limited to 500 in production that came with a certificate of authenticity and was etched on the bolster with its own serial number as an EDC?

Note too, that there are many different folder cases that hold several different blade types. (Smart!) Each variation on a theme generates a new specimen of the same model (wharncliffe instead of a pen or spear instead of clip for example), and better still, if there is a first time marriage of an old blade style(s) into an old case style that gets a distinctive scale treatment then it is a new model altogether.

GEC is in the rarified air of getting absolute top dollar for a good product. Good for them! While I am not a real fan of their knives, I am very glad to see an American knife manufacturer profitable and healthy. And they have plenty of fans... they certainly don't need me!

Robert
 
GEC has very consistent quality, superior I'd say to other Traditional US knife companies.

This is what Queen needs to emulate as it has a range of authentic and worthy patterns in its arsenal.
 
To truly appreciate the differences among the cutlery companies, and to really understand the nuances of quality, a visit to each plant is advised, and a long term study of the products is required.
Case and GEC are actually many worlds apart!!
 
waynorth said:
To truly appreciate the differences among the cutlery companies, and to really understand the nuances of quality, a visit to each plant is advised, and a long term study of the products is required.
Case and GEC are actually many worlds apart!!
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I'd like to hear more about those different worlds Charlie. Care to start another thread about it? If not, I'd like to hear your thoughts in a PM or email.
 
Doug Add said:
I'd like to hear more about those different worlds Charlie. Care to start another thread about it? If not, I'd like to hear your thoughts in a PM or email.
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I would think that would certainly merit its own thread. I would love to learn more about the differences. All I know now is the videos I have seen (CASE has a great CASE made video online) and what I get from dealers of both knives as guns shows. The two I talk to have been dealers for many, many years, but that doesn't mean they know everything.

Like I said, I would love to learn more about the differences in processes and techniques used to manufacture knives that differentiate these two great companies.

Robert
 
midnight flyer said:
GEC et al., turns out a good product that could be used if need be as some do, and perform quite well. But I would a huge amount of their product sits in drawers and safe places. Why would you use the "Stagecoach limited edition Courthouse model with African Blackwood scales" that was limited to 500 in production that came with a certificate of authenticity and was etched on the bolster with its own serial number as an EDC?
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I would EDC one, a knife is first and foremost a tool and even knives from the premium Sheffield cutlers of antiquity do not have much of a gain in value if you take inflation into account. If you collect them and display thats perfectly fine because that's your thing, but to collect and expect returns you'd be better off buying silver bullion.
 
Boggs said:
Bob.......

You got that right ....and Sierra that's why in theory the idea sounds like it could get traction but in practice it's negated immediately.......it's not cost effective
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Admittedly you're right... But it would be cool to have a company to initially offer a handful of classic models with an unparalleled QC and F&F, then let that list evolve based on the limited editions that got the best reviews/sales.
 
I just read that Pat Vroman, recently of GEC, has now moved to Queen Cutlery (this is evidently not new news, it's just news to me): "Pat's over at Queen Cutlery in a somewhat similar role to the one he held at GEC. Not only will he be taking on the roles of Purchasing Agent, Scheduler and Putting cutting orders to the press room, he's also going to be on the Quality Control Team as well."


Sounds like GEC's loss, and a potentially very good move for Queen.

Too bad he's not a webmaster. ;)

~ P.
 
A thread on the differences between among the mentioned cutleries, would be a minefield, as I have friends in all of them. But I am going to report on one of their creations shortly!
 
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