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Question for Cliff Stamp re: Ed Fowler's knives...
- Thread starter Mongo
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Well, did he ever get the knife? I am waiting with pregant antiscipation?I sure hope he test better than I spell!!
I just had my own little test session here at the Trashy Trucker Ranch and both the Fowlers and Burkes passed with flying colors. What test you say? Well I just cut up my steak and several chickens for BBQin and no edge deflection at all . No rolled edges or dull spots ocurred during this most impressive test . Next up the cooked meat test. Stay tuned for more indepth reports .
I just had my own little test session here at the Trashy Trucker Ranch and both the Fowlers and Burkes passed with flying colors. What test you say? Well I just cut up my steak and several chickens for BBQin and no edge deflection at all . No rolled edges or dull spots ocurred during this most impressive test . Next up the cooked meat test. Stay tuned for more indepth reports .
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db good question! i would like to add....
was it a round steak or tenderloin?
what was its age?
thanks and in closing, this is the only kind of "beef" i like to get in to
was it a round steak or tenderloin?
what was its age?
thanks and in closing, this is the only kind of "beef" i like to get in to
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db and Scott,
Very good questions and thanks for keeping me straight. The initial cutting was done on only the finest Corian board I could build from left over stock during my kitchen build . I used a right hand grip and single pulling strokes on the blade each time . The beef was an end cut and also some tenderlion and round steak. I think it was about a 1.5 yr old heifer when slaughtered this spring. I would guess the chickens were about 12-13 weeks old when slain as I recall from my days working a chicken farm. The knives performed very well and cut that bone as if it were paper .
Now for the cooked meat test I had a Fowler Pronghorn of 5160 and my new Burke Pronghorn of 52100 with a modified Price grind on the tip.Man nothing like a couple grand worth of steak knives to ease your cutting task. Both knives cut in a single pass with no drag or hesitation from either . Each knife got passed around to at least five testers and all had similar results .I even used my Fowler ( gasp as if shocked here)to cut the tabs on a bucket of pool shock after the party!!!!! Both would still cut the hell out of you after these exhaustive test .
Disclaimer: I am not a professional knife tester but , I do play one at home .
Very good questions and thanks for keeping me straight. The initial cutting was done on only the finest Corian board I could build from left over stock during my kitchen build . I used a right hand grip and single pulling strokes on the blade each time . The beef was an end cut and also some tenderlion and round steak. I think it was about a 1.5 yr old heifer when slaughtered this spring. I would guess the chickens were about 12-13 weeks old when slain as I recall from my days working a chicken farm. The knives performed very well and cut that bone as if it were paper .
Now for the cooked meat test I had a Fowler Pronghorn of 5160 and my new Burke Pronghorn of 52100 with a modified Price grind on the tip.Man nothing like a couple grand worth of steak knives to ease your cutting task. Both knives cut in a single pass with no drag or hesitation from either . Each knife got passed around to at least five testers and all had similar results .I even used my Fowler ( gasp as if shocked here)to cut the tabs on a bucket of pool shock after the party!!!!! Both would still cut the hell out of you after these exhaustive test .
Disclaimer: I am not a professional knife tester but , I do play one at home .
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2knife,
Yes, that's the one. I'll put a link to it here:
Ed Fowler Pronghorn Hunter
In the listing it says "The blade was forged from virgin 52100 steel."
Yes, that's the one. I'll put a link to it here:
Ed Fowler Pronghorn Hunter
In the listing it says "The blade was forged from virgin 52100 steel."
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AAAAHHHHH... One of the finer points of handle construction is so evident in that picture . The cut out, radiused and smoothed area for the heel of your hand . We would not want to leave that out of any review.
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Gabe,
Beautiful knife! I have to say that this knife appears to be made pre-2000. Sometimes the descriptions are used the same for each knife. This knife was likely a consignment. If the top of his signature were parallel to the spine it would indicate that the knife was made 2000-present. But, it's clear from the picture that this is a pre-2000 made knife. (Compare other photos..) I think this switch in signatures also corresponded closely to the time he switched to using the virgin 52100 steel also, but we'd have to find out from Ed if he used it on any knives with his old signature style.
David
Beautiful knife! I have to say that this knife appears to be made pre-2000. Sometimes the descriptions are used the same for each knife. This knife was likely a consignment. If the top of his signature were parallel to the spine it would indicate that the knife was made 2000-present. But, it's clear from the picture that this is a pre-2000 made knife. (Compare other photos..) I think this switch in signatures also corresponded closely to the time he switched to using the virgin 52100 steel also, but we'd have to find out from Ed if he used it on any knives with his old signature style.
David
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Gator97,
Why does THIS question keep popping up? Why would you complain if I took a $20 bill from you, but not if I was giving you one? The obvious answer is if he did not test the knife, then his review would be generalized and not necessarily pertain to the specific blade in question, wether the review was positive or not.
Gabe & David,
If I'm not mistaken, Ed aligned his mark differently specifically to differentiate the new blades he was making with the new batch of steel he obtained. This blade also seems to have been made before Ed started using more of a recurve or the modified Price grind. Just to be clear, I will not be sending Cliff any of my knives... I was interested in running my own tests, with Cliff's input, to see how accurate his assesment was, but I do agree with Angie and Dave that this thread has gone to crap. At first it was a simple matter of not agreeing with what he wrote, but now I honestly do not trust his motives.
-Jose
Why does THIS question keep popping up? Why would you complain if I took a $20 bill from you, but not if I was giving you one? The obvious answer is if he did not test the knife, then his review would be generalized and not necessarily pertain to the specific blade in question, wether the review was positive or not.
Gabe & David,
If I'm not mistaken, Ed aligned his mark differently specifically to differentiate the new blades he was making with the new batch of steel he obtained. This blade also seems to have been made before Ed started using more of a recurve or the modified Price grind. Just to be clear, I will not be sending Cliff any of my knives...
I was interested in running my own tests, with Cliff's input, to see how accurate his assesment was, but I do agree with Angie and Dave that this thread has gone to crap. At first it was a simple matter of not agreeing with what he wrote, but now I honestly do not trust his motives. -Jose
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...Why does THIS question keep popping up?
It was not a question, just stated a fact.
The obvious answer is if he did not test the knife, then his review would be generalized and not necessarily pertain to the specific blade in question, wether the review was positive or not.
Correct. Generalized review or speculation doesn't necessarily mean bias whether the comment is positive or negative. Yet that's being used as an argument in cases when the comment is not positive. IMHO not very objective approach.
Anyway, let's wait and see.
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Gator97,
It doesn't mean it's the truth either. Cliff made some statements that I didn't agree with, based on my own experience with Ed's knives. That doesn't mean they were false, but when he brought up the Busse challenge I did question what type of agenda or relationship he has with Busse. And also his speculation on cryogenically treated stock removal blades. Maybe it was just the way I interpreted his comments, but it did seem to me that he was implying the results would be the same as Ed's forging/heat treat process. IMO, he should have hired the man who is as skilled in that process as Ed is in his (Does this person even exist?), so he could verify the results for himself before making those statements.
Although I guess it's cheaper just to wait for free blades to test...
-Jose
It doesn't mean it's the truth either. Cliff made some statements that I didn't agree with, based on my own experience with Ed's knives. That doesn't mean they were false, but when he brought up the Busse challenge I did question what type of agenda or relationship he has with Busse. And also his speculation on cryogenically treated stock removal blades. Maybe it was just the way I interpreted his comments, but it did seem to me that he was implying the results would be the same as Ed's forging/heat treat process. IMO, he should have hired the man who is as skilled in that process as Ed is in his (Does this person even exist?), so he could verify the results for himself before making those statements.
Although I guess it's cheaper just to wait for free blades to test...
-Jose
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52100 ballbearing steel is far more suitable for knife purposes than the tool steel with the same alloys. A ballbearing needs a fine grain size and a homogenous strukture with a low level of impurities. If you make a knife out of it, it will get sharper than the one out of the according tool steel.I would love to see how 52100 performs against Hitachi´s Shirogami, which is also made for getting very sharp and a very clean cut. But all these testings a not worth a dime if they are not done in scientific circumstances. Something like reproductionable results and comparable conditions.
I think that 52100 is so well investigated that there are no secrets any more. Metallurgists can probably tell you in advance what will happen in a specific HT. Or they can tell you form the grain strukture what your HT was. Since they also found out why and how a knife cuts and fails and which factors take what kind of influence these discussions could be a lot easier, since anyone could choose a steel according to his needs and knows how to use it and what to exspect. One has to sum all that knowledge up do a research and write a book in english.
Then you won´t buy a machete from Ats34 or a sashimi knife from cpm-440V.
I think that 52100 is so well investigated that there are no secrets any more. Metallurgists can probably tell you in advance what will happen in a specific HT. Or they can tell you form the grain strukture what your HT was. Since they also found out why and how a knife cuts and fails and which factors take what kind of influence these discussions could be a lot easier, since anyone could choose a steel according to his needs and knows how to use it and what to exspect. One has to sum all that knowledge up do a research and write a book in english.
Then you won´t buy a machete from Ats34 or a sashimi knife from cpm-440V.
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To be fair, I think it should be restated to all interested in this thread that the knife Cliff Stamp is reviewing from Gabe is a knife made pre-2000. It predates all of Ed Fowler's most significant recent advances: The switch from ballbearings to virgin stock 52100 (metallurgist Rex Walter), the development of his Modified Price grind, and the work with Bill Burke (pushing the performance potential of his knives.) Photomicrographs have shown, since that time, he has exceeded what was believed to be the theoretical limit of grain refinement in 52100 steel. It would be good to get Rex's views on it since he's a forumite too.
David
David
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Well, don't I feel gipped.
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Gabe,
Ed is constantly testing his blades so they're going to keep evolving. You shouldn't feel gipped just because this isn't one of his newest blades. There's more to his knives than just function anyway. I'm still interested in reading what Cliff has to say about this older model.
-Jose
Ed is constantly testing his blades so they're going to keep evolving. You shouldn't feel gipped just because this isn't one of his newest blades. There's more to his knives than just function anyway. I'm still interested in reading what Cliff has to say about this older model.
-Jose
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Gabe,
I just read a post made on an earlier thread (by Rex) saying he knew of at least five different types of 52100 steel. I'm no metallurgist, nor scientist, but it is worth mentioning (that the virgin 52100 steel Ed Fowler now enjoys is a more consistent steel and outperforms the majority of his older knives). With this discovery, he has been able to focus some attention on other charateristics without the worry of variables from ballbearing to ballbearing. I remember him saying a few years ago he was sacrificing one out of every eight knives to test and make account for differences in ballbearings. I think this shows a lot of personal integrity and it goes a long way to illustrate Ed's character and reputation, and devotion to his craft. I don't think he has ever taken shortcuts or made sacrifices in quality.
Also, Gabe I wanted to say I liked seeing all the Bowie knives you pictured in the thread about who made the best Bowie knives... While all of those knives are beautiful to look at, I wonder how many of them have as much "tough love" Ed puts into his knives. (I'll tell you the truth, I'd rather have the Pronghorn.)
David
I just read a post made on an earlier thread (by Rex) saying he knew of at least five different types of 52100 steel. I'm no metallurgist, nor scientist, but it is worth mentioning (that the virgin 52100 steel Ed Fowler now enjoys is a more consistent steel and outperforms the majority of his older knives). With this discovery, he has been able to focus some attention on other charateristics without the worry of variables from ballbearing to ballbearing. I remember him saying a few years ago he was sacrificing one out of every eight knives to test and make account for differences in ballbearings. I think this shows a lot of personal integrity and it goes a long way to illustrate Ed's character and reputation, and devotion to his craft. I don't think he has ever taken shortcuts or made sacrifices in quality.
Also, Gabe I wanted to say I liked seeing all the Bowie knives you pictured in the thread about who made the best Bowie knives... While all of those knives are beautiful to look at, I wonder how many of them have as much "tough love" Ed puts into his knives. (I'll tell you the truth, I'd rather have the Pronghorn.)
David
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Gabe,
I think you should just send that knife to me .I hate the thoughts of someone feeling gipped .I'll give her a good home and you will feel better knowing ya made a contribution to the future of my little ones here at the Trashy Trucker Ranch.
BTW: Where is the Cliffster? Did getting to hold a Fowler send him into massive organisms, to the extent he is running naked thru the woods screaming HOOTY, HOOOOO. 
I think you should just send that knife to me .I hate the thoughts of someone feeling gipped .I'll give her a good home and you will feel better knowing ya made a contribution to the future of my little ones here at the Trashy Trucker Ranch.
BTW: Where is the Cliffster? Did getting to hold a Fowler send him into massive organisms, to the extent he is running naked thru the woods screaming HOOTY, HOOOOO.
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Cliff is, fully clothed, beating his head against the wall of Canadian customs going "ARGHY ARGH". I think if they don't release it to him soon, the first test will involve "deformation when used to smite pointy heads very hard in a short period of time"
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Personally, if it were my Pronghorn I would prefer that Customs have it rather than Clit. Gaben are you out of your friggin mind, sending Clit a knife????
I warned Ed a long time ago to keep his knives away from him. Lifter said it before, Clit is an knife abuser not a Tester or a Reviewer. Ed Fowler is an ABS Master Smith, what exactly are Clit's credentials?
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