Randall 14 Vs Busse Sarsquatch

[lunde]

t1mpani, you wrote:

So, the comparison I'd make from my own experiences would go something like----------

Randall (under W.D.)---dedicated customer service, made purpose-built knives out of a material they'd put time and work into developing to maximize the type of performance they were building for.

Busse (Under Jerry Busse)---dedicated customer service, makes purpose-built knives out of a material they've put time and work into developing to maximize the type of performance they build for.

Randall (after W.D.)---still utilizing the cutting edge of 1940s materials technology in spite of an explosion of options within the industry, with a customer service attitude that seems to be "there are plenty of people who want 'em so just feel lucky you got one."

Busse (after Jerry)---time will tell.

Very nicely stated. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Elen]

I find it interesting that many Busse fans will use the destruction tests on youtube as testament to the Busse knives toughness, yet when a Busse is outperformed by another knife, these tests are no longer valid. When Busse holds up better to abuse than a Strider or Chris Reeve knife the Busse fans won't dismiss the tests as proof of toughness and quality. But here we have a Randall that clearly held up better and there is all sorts of speculation. I have nothing against any particular knife brand, so my comments are not in support of Randall or against Busse, just a neutral observation.

With all due respect, I'm not sure the observation is entirely neutral. Could someone point out where in this thread "Busse fans" have stated that these tests are not valid, but yet have previously used this type of test as testament to Busse toughness? Could we have even just one example? Just quote a post that you feel engages in such behavior. I ask, because I've read through this thread, and yet I see no Busse fans doing what you've observed them doing. Sure, I see some people saying these tests aren't valid, but they are the same people who always say that, since they honestly think that, regardless of what is tested and who comes up on top.

All sorts of speculation? Well, sure, people are asking things such as how many chops were made with each, asking for a similar closeup of the Randall edge as was given of the Busse, and asking which of the tested knives happens to be thinner of edge. I don't find that to be mere speculation, but rather good questions and points to consider.

 

[giant1]

I don't own any Randall knives but I like them.........

I have lot's of Busse knives and like them too...........

I also like and have many other brands of knives both custom and production and like them.......

BUT.....I don't believe that any knife I like or own is indestructible regardless of what steel is used or who made it. If I set my mind to it, I can destroy any knife.

The tests are always fun or amusing to see and read about (some even informative - to a point) but they don't figure in my decision to buy or not buy a knife and I would never treat any of my knives like that. I would just get the right tool for the given job.

Edit to add: I just wanted to go on record as Busse owner who does not use the so called tests to argue one way or the other

 

[shunsui]

A tempest in a teapot.

 

[t1mpani]

A tempest in a teapot.

Containing tempests is NOT what teapots are made for---and making them do it doesn't prove ANYTHING!!!!!!

:grumpy::grumpy:

 

[Liu Kang]

Well, I am a busse fan and have not said anything that the test wasn't valid. I think most busse fans are just more impressed that a Randall held up so well. I do however think if a better busse was picked, it would have done better...

 

[on_the_edge]

Implicit in coolhand68's comments is his misperception that Busse fans embrace, buy, and own ONLY Busse knives. He could not be farther from the truth.

 

[Liu Kang]

Implicit in coolhand68's comments is his misperception that Busse fans embrace, buy, and own ONLY Busse knives. He could not be farther from the truth.

Yea, he doesn't realize Busse doesn't make a folder just yet We have to resort to other brands, lol.

 

[Lycosa]

The Busse Folder will be unveiled at Blade!
Prediction!!

 

[ADD]

Slower than usual, but here comes the posse...

 

[Samael]

The Randall folder won't be unveiled at at Blade. But it's coming.

Before you get too excited, it will be a slippy.

 

[on_the_edge]

The Randall folder won't be unveiled at at Blade. But it's coming.

Before you get too excited, it will be a slippy.

Well, I might be interested, but only if it can be batonned through a case-hardened padlock.

 

[Samael]

Well, I might be interested, but only if it can be batonned through a case-hardened padlock.

I'll be sure to tell Jase to work on that.

 

[brownshoe]

If you know Randall's, you know their policy on hard use. Some information from Randall's website on their knives, it may explain why they don't think chopping bone is a valid warranty repair:

"You cannot cut bone, nails, bolts or pierce metal with a cutting edge and point designed for meat despite some advertising to the contrary. We have done extensive tests and find such feats cannot be performed unless the design of the cutting edge and point is altered. Using a fine hunting knife for an axe will naturally damage its cutting edge. And pounding, prying, or throwing a knife not designed for these purposes is likely to damage it. We strongly suggest that if you'll use your knife for a special heavy-duty purpose, let us know when you order so we can shape the blade and bevel accordingly."


The above policy has been in existence for many years. Clearly cutting bone is outside of their warranty unless there is a custom request for a knife's edge geomtry. The fact the test knife did so well, is a testment to how good Randall builds a knife, even if there was no Busse to compare with.

By the way, I don't own any Randalls or Busses, but I like both companies. IMHO Randalls cost more than busses for some very good reasons. First, they are harder to get...simple supply and demand. Second they are hand forged and hand built...they cost more to build. Finally when it comes to warranties, busse has a good one, but only time will tell if the company can last after he passes. IIRC Randall is in its third generation.

 

[Lycosa]

I have to agree with brownshoe. I understand if a knife HAS to be tested but to beat the living daylights out of a beautiful knife, just to do it, is beyond me.

 

[coolhand68]

I figured some of you thin skinned types would find something to be offended about in my post. I'm not speaking for ALL Busse owners, so if I didn't direct a post directly at you why get so defensive? I'm speaking in terms of fanboys from any knife maker. I used Busse as an example of how some owners will doubt the validity of a test that was done on equal terms because their knife came out on the short end of a review. The same thing happend with Chris Reeve knives as well. It seems once a knife from brand X is touted as indestructable and the best thing since microwave popcorn, along comes brand Y and in one or some aspects out performs brand X. Suddenly there is mass hysteria and dog piling when someone points out an observation. It's not just this thread, but many like it that show examples of bias or denial. I'm not going to go digging through archives to provide samples, you've all seen this in regard to one maker or another, and again, I haven't directed my comments at anyone in particular in this thread. So if you felt compelled to challenge me about it then perhaps there WAS an ounce of truth to my post? Where in my post did I say that Busse owners ONLY own Busse's? Again, an example of someone getting their feelings hurt because I dared to mention how a Busse got outperformed and some of their owners didn't like it.

I've seen posts regarding why no close up on the Randall, well perhaps one wasn't necessary. You can see the big honking chip in the Busse from a wider angle or a close up. I don't think there was a conspiracy on the part of the OP to damage Busse's reputation. I've owned Busse's and I like them. Never owned a Randall, but there are a couple of their models that are on my wish list. I don't store my knives in a safe, I use them, so I appreciate the OP taking the time and cost to conduct this review.

It's the same with Noss' destruction tests. Some love them, some hate them. While they aren't a true representation of how the average person uses a knife, there are several knifemakers who claim to make "hard use" knives, whatever that means. Well these tests will give you an idea of just how much hard use you can expect to put them through. Now I will never need to chop my way through a cinder block wall or pry a lid off a 55 gallon drum with a knife in my lifetime, but one aspect I like about those tests is seeing how much batoning and chopping they can stand up to and still slice and cut. How the edge holds and how strong the tip is. Busse performed best in these tests, and there is many a Busse owner who will use them as gospel that Busse makes the toughest knife on the market. Ok, nothing wrong with that. Along comes an individual with no agenda who tests two knives equally and Busse comes out on the short end. To some it may prove nothing, to others it may mean something.

 

[MARSUS]

The Busse Folder will be unveiled at Blade!
Prediction!!

This is a new folder, realized by the Italian forum MCKF of which I do part-

 

[Lycosa]

That's a Beaut!!
Thanks, MARSUS! :thumbup:

 

[Elen]

I figured some of you thin skinned types would find something to be offended about in my post. I'm not speaking for ALL Busse owners, so if I didn't direct a post directly at you why get so defensive?

Well, I can only speak for myself, obviously, but I'm certainly not offended. Just interested in sticking to facts, where it's possible (some things always come down into individual opinion rather than facts, like say, whether you prefer blondes or brunettes - blondes for me, please). Any defensive reactions may be caused by disagreement with your observations. On my part, it's all in good spirits - just discussion, nothing personal. I like to think that arguments are about issues, not about the people.

I'm speaking in terms of fanboys from any knife maker. I used Busse as an example of how some owners will doubt the validity of a test that was done on equal terms because their knife came out on the short end of a review. The same thing happend with Chris Reeve knives as well. It seems once a knife from brand X is touted as indestructable and the best thing since microwave popcorn, along comes brand Y and in one or some aspects out performs brand X. Suddenly there is mass hysteria and dog piling when someone points out an observation.

I don't see the mass hysteria in this thread. All I see is some people asking pretty valid questions (like which knife had the thinner edge - pretty important to know if you're testing the durability of the edge in impacts with hard materials), and then some people who always dislike this type of testing coming in to point out they think these tests are invalid and/or foolish. I don't see any Busse owners coming in here to say these tests are invalid now that Busse "lost", while they have themselves previously praised Busse for "winning" similar tests. I just don't see it. Many others don't seem to see it either. And the fact that you wouldn't quote even one post to show who has done that does strongly imply that it hasn't even happened in this thread. In some other thread, in the past? Perhaps. In this thread? No.

It's not just this thread, but many like it that show examples of bias or denial. I'm not going to go digging through archives to provide samples, you've all seen this in regard to one maker or another, and again, I haven't directed my comments at anyone in particular in this thread.

I can't say I've read all the posts on Bladeforums ( ) but I can say that I've never seen any Busse owner, in any thread, first praising Busse because they won an abusive type of test and then later in some other thread claiming that such tests are invalid when a Busse lost in such a test. And this thread being about Randalls and Busses, I see little reason to bring the other makers into it.

So if you felt compelled to challenge me about it then perhaps there WAS an ounce of truth to my post?

That is one possibility, yes. And yet, another possibility is that people felt compelled to challenge the observations because they thought they were just plain wrong. If someone says that 1 plus 1 equals 7, people don't challenge the claim because it has an ounce of truth in it, but because they think the claim is just wrong. Typically they'll then try to show why they think it's wrong. In this case, folks have pointed out that there ain't any Busse owner in this thread that has named abusive testing like chopping concrete invalid when Busse loses and a great proof of toughness and quality when Busse wins. I can happily agree with you that there are people out there in the world with biases and various types of denial issues, and that goes for knife enthusiasts, too. But in this particular case I cannot see any unfair bias from the Busse fans (and I count myself as one of them).

I've seen posts regarding why no close up on the Randall, well perhaps one wasn't necessary. You can see the big honking chip in the Busse from a wider angle or a close up. I don't think there was a conspiracy on the part of the OP to damage Busse's reputation.

I don't believe in any conspiracy or bias here on the part of the original poster either. I do believe, though, that it would have been nice to get a similar closeup of both knives. And I do believe it would have been at least worth mentioning that the Busse has a much thinner edge than the Randall. Stuff like that is good to know. When a Busse FFBM does well chopping concrete, it's important to mention that those things range from .275" to .320" thick, so they won't do too well in slicing tomatoes. The specs of the knives tested are always good to mention. It gives the reader some idea on how the knives might perform in various tasks that may not have been included in the test.

Personally, while I don't take this type of testing as gospel, I do find it interesting. And it certainly gives topics for discussion, although sometimes people get a bit too hostile and personal. In this thread so far we haven't seen the usual name calling, and I hope we won't.

 

[Gerberblades]

I have yet to own a Randall, although I am seriously considering ordering a couple right now, just to get it done with. I am not really in the situation right now, as I am going to be buying a new truck but in four years I think I'll have it paid off and have cash. Regardless thats a long wait, but I am sure well worth it.

I own Busses, and have to say they are great knives. Some hype, but regardless great knives backed by a no bullshit warranty.

My opinion is they are both very different, just try both.