Randall 14 Vs Busse Sarsquatch

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QUOTE=MARSUS
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To whoever he thinks that the test could be distorted suggestion to purchase the two knives and to repeat it,then you will post it on the this beautiful forum and I can tell that it is false,then I will start me laughing and I will take around you and I will also make so many ironic wisecracks:D
 
Hello everibody,I'm italian and i speack a school english so exuse me....this is a personal test,a real personal test.It is not a matter of wath steel is better,INFI or 440,this is simply a test based on the evidence because the two knives are different....so,I don't understand the sarcastic words I read....ciao a tutti!
 
thomas-83 said:
The tests are true, I was present with marsus.
The sarsquatch has received many damages because it is less thick at the edge (sorry, i don't speak much english).
In fact I have made of the tests with a wilkinson dartmoor in 440C (that it is much thickness to the edge), and the edge has not been chipped.
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Your English is just fine. :thumbup:

Yes, in tests like this edge thickness is really important. A thick edge of relatively soft steel is more durable in impact with rock and concrete than a thin edge of hard steel. In this case, the Randall has a thicker edge and it's made of softer steel (as I recall, the stainless ones should be 56-59 RC, whereas the Busse is 58 - 60). This in mind, like others have said, it would have been perhaps more interesting to test a Busse with an edge as thick as the Randall's - the Sarsquatch has an unusually thin edge for a Busse anyway, so it's not very representative of Busse factory edges either in good or bad.

Marsus, you mentioned you would expect the Busse to break easily in bending, because it's hard. I think you should try that, if you want to find out. In my experience, Busses have a lot of lateral strength, and don't easily break even if you bend them around a lot.
 
When he enters a forum there are two behavioral ways,in the first one he plays the notes of the teachers of music(this is that convenient and they is received so many applause)-in the according to him it also plays out of the orchestra his own music(in this case they also take the whistles)-However what boredom to play the whole same music-
I would be involved as in the first case if I had posted this test on the forum Randall knifesociety-forum,me this test I have posted her only in this and in our Italian Forum because they are the only forums where life and movement there is and I has a good time-
 
Hello. What disappointed me was the irony I read in many of the answers here. Me and my fellows we know Marsus from long time, is a honest person and you could be sure he never false tests or whatever you want. Also, he is nothing to compare a Busse knife vs a chinese knife, but vs a Randall 14, which mean versus a knife who proven his capability in all the battle and camp fields, over the world. For sure Busse knives are greats knives (I'm a proud owner of a NMSFNO), but remember that a little bit of humbleness is always a strenght sign.
 
In a the simple book "Step by Step Knifemaking You Can Do It" by David Boye, he states the first two principles of knife design: "A good blade must first be shaped properly and ground to the proper thickness so it cuts well in the operations for which it was designed...the second factor in a good blade is the character of the steel used." I am pretty sure there is no disagreement on this forum about these two first principles.

Randall is upfront about the first requirement, their designs have stood the test of time and many customers. For the second requirement, they are fully open about their carbon steel being O-1, but a little cagey about their stainless. I've never seen it in print...from Randall...what steel it is. All I've read or been told about their stainless is second or third hand. ?butwhatdoIknow? The one thing they state about their stainless is that for this type of knife, it is forged to shape. Obviously they are somewhat unique in this feature and from their history, they might be on to something :) I'm just a knifeknut, not a maker, does forging stainless make a difference?
 
MARSUS said:
When he enters a forum there are two behavioral ways,in the first one he plays the notes of the teachers of music(this is that convenient and they is received so many applause)-in the according to him it also plays out of the orchestra his own music(in this case they also take the whistles)-However what boredom to play the whole same music-
I would be involved as in the first case if I had posted this test on the forum Randall knifesociety-forum,me this test I have posted her only in this and in our Italian Forum because they are the only forums where life and movement there is and I has a good time-
Click to expand...

Thanks Marsus for taking the time to take measurements. :thumbup: Is the Randall's edge bevel shoulder really 1/16 inch thick? That's 1.5 millimeters...very thick! My Model 14 is only 0.4 mm thick at the edge bevel shoulder.
 
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Marsus and the Ever Widening Group of Witnesses - Me thinks you doth protest too much. If your test was on the up and up then you have no need to trot out "witnesses" to cover your back. You missed the point of my post entirely if you think I was calling your test a fraud. I said the way it was presented made it impossible for anyone to draw any conclusions one way or the other. I am a knife test agnostic. Absence of empirical data negates confidence in the reported results. In the end all I can say is that I don't know anything for certain about either knife used in your test. To nudge me one direction or the other you would need to provide more empirical data, demonstration, and explanation of the test methodology. Perhaps in future test postings you can do that and I won't have the same level of skepticism I experienced with this one.

Just for the record, telling me to go out and buy the same two knives and conduct my own test is an example of intellectual laziness. No one asked you to post your test here. You did it of your own free will. The onus is on you to provide accurate and reliable information so that others can gain something from your test results. Otherwise why waste your time with it? If this is really just show and tell then so be it, but don't indulge in a masquerade where you dress up a day with two knives and camera as some kind of informative knife test.

Listen, I know I am being harsh here, and skeptical, and my posts are not just pointed at you. I am seeing more and more knife test paste up jobs comparing two or more knives where the documentation and methodology leave me cold. If my comments here help raise the bar on knife test postings so much the better. If they don't, oh well, but don't get too excited when someone like me questions your results.

And don't say I should do my own knife tests. I generally don't do them and post them for exactly the reasons I've stated. It takes a great deal of time and effort to conduct and document a good test, one that anticipates the skeptics, and presents the data in a manner conducive to valid conclusions. Also, I don't think I have the scientific aptitude for it. I am not a very good "details" guy. Then there's the funding issue too. Beating up expensive knives doesn't fit my current budget situation.
 
Yes, for sure this was not a scientific test. :thumbup:
Marsus don't guess it. He told just what result when he was hitting a concrete blck with this two particular knives he own. Stop, nothing more. Then he try to understand why one knife have no damage opposite the other.
We can try to put some arguments: HRC, geometry,.....
We are just talking without claiming to have the truth on our side. :)
 
Lycosa, I've seen a lot of steel discussions, but never one that actually addressed forged stainless. What I've read is that some custom makers used to do it (Hibben was an early one) but it's hard and you can screw it up easier than forging non-stainless. Decarbonization was what sticks in my memory, plus cracks during final heat treat? IIRC this was with 440C and ATS34. However, I can't recall ever seeing anything that discussed performance of forged stainless vs. stock removal stainless. Anybody got a clue? Anybody know why Randall forges stainless and just about nobody else?
 
Brownshoes - Many stainless steel knives are forged. For example all the high end German kitchen cutlery knives are drop forged. The machinery needed to do it is large and expensive, which pretty much rules out forging stainless steel by the small, custom makers.
 
Good Marsus
do not be surprised to make a good knife :

1) the steel
2) the correct geometry
3) and the right heat treatment

randall that complies with the proportions.
Busse is the wire too thin

say INFI or 440 A B C without the rest does not make much sense
 
Didn't read the whole thread. Don't care which did "better". Not interested in "p---ing contests".

The poster's stated original intent was to demonstrate that the Randal was a real working knife and not just a showpiece.

He has done that, and I thank him for it.

Frank
 
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