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Randall 14 Vs Busse Sarsquatch
- Thread starter MARSUS
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I'm not interested in pissing contests either. I am interested in good, factual information. If the poster's only intent was to demonstrate a Randall's toughness versus its perceived show only quality all he needed to do was hack away at the wood and concrete with the Randall and then show the results. He did not need to compare it to any other knife, Busse or otherwise. Because he did he introduced an entirely different spin on this thread. Testing one knife is not the same as testing two or more knives against one another. The former is pretty safe ground, although even that creates problems when a favorite knife fails to live up to expectations (witness the Noss/Reeves video). Comparing knives ups the ante quite a bit in my book.
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Steelhed
I suggest you have a cup of tea and relax mate. You are blowing this up way out of proportion to what the original post was intended to be.
The guy took two knives and used both of them in the same way. In this particular excercise he was able to demonstrate that one got more damaged than the other. He outlined what he did but unfortunately for you he did not have a bank of scientists to analyse and record his data.
Your continued veiled insinuations that Marsus is a liar are childish and disrespectful.
Frank
Owner of many Busse knives as well many other brands of knives
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giant1 - Perhaps that's the way you see it. I don't. Ain't that great? We both get to state our opinions on the matter. You can ignore mine and I can ignore yours. Or....
I am not insinuating anything. There's not enough information in the OP to do that. That's what I'm saying. I am not going to rush out and buy a Randall or sell all my Busses based on this "test." What I am asking for is more information and a less ambiguous methodology. If you and others find the information useful here, more power to you. I don't know you and I don't know Marsus and you certainly don't know me so I would suggest you take your own advice and put me on your ignore list.
I am not insinuating anything. There's not enough information in the OP to do that. That's what I'm saying. I am not going to rush out and buy a Randall or sell all my Busses based on this "test." What I am asking for is more information and a less ambiguous methodology. If you and others find the information useful here, more power to you. I don't know you and I don't know Marsus and you certainly don't know me so I would suggest you take your own advice and put me on your ignore list.
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- Joined
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What's ambiguous about the methodology? He chopped a bit of wood and smashed into concrete with two knives. You can see the photos.
You either believe he did it or you don't.
Your posts come across as INSINUATING that you don't believe him.
As stated in other posts I view these tests more as entertainment than anything else. I would never use a knife to break up concrete. I would rather use a sledge hammer or crow bar.
Lastly, I don't want to put you or anyone on ignore. This is an open forum and as you say we are all free to air our point of view. I'm just calling you out as you have called out Marsus.
No big deal either way really..........just a discussion
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A little help here from anyone. Obviously some think I am way off base here. Perhaps I am. If you think the test as posted is clear and unambiguous, that it provides enough information to draw conclusions about either the Randall or Busse, that it is not open to various interpretations let me know. I can take it. I'm a big boy. I'm really not interested in food fights or crossborder character assassinations. In fact, I'm not even sure why this one bothers me so much. I guess it just pushed a button or something. Anyway, enough said. 
UffDa
Gold Member
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I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but after Jerry's reply I went back to look at the pictures and I am a bit skeptical about this one. Look closely. Do you see any scratches or marks of any kind on the blade? This is supposed to be after whacking a concrete block. Not a scratch or mark that I can see and the edge seems to be perfect. Maybe it's the lighting. 
Attachments
I hope marsus had conserved the photo in original format, to post only the edge.
The photo is small and with water around, and the blade seems perfect, but in reality it has the scratches (but not chipping or beddings) on the edge and small scratches on the blade.
I say that, because I have seen the knife and I take his in my hand, i don't have look only a photo.
The photo is small and with water around, and the blade seems perfect, but in reality it has the scratches (but not chipping or beddings) on the edge and small scratches on the blade.
I say that, because I have seen the knife and I take his in my hand, i don't have look only a photo.
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[/IMG]
OK............Ufdda you raise an interesting point, I have to admit I would expect at least some scratches on the Randall???
The photo above seems genuine enough though? even if does not look as banged up as the Sarsquatch.
Hmm.......
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Uffda - Yes, and this is one of the things that pushed my button. It's not that I was surprised by the damage to the Busse. I am amazed at the lack of damage to the Randall. Look at the concrete. It has small rocks imbedded in the surface. While masonary block itself is not all that hard, rock inclusions are very hard. Much harder than steel. In my experience I dented, scratched, or chipped every knife with which I accidently hit a rock. I have chopped cinder block and the edge on the knife I used was not damaged much at all. One possibility could be that Marsus hit the concrete on the back side away from the rocks with the Randall, and then hit the rocks directly with the Busse. This would make a big difference and I am not saying he did it that way intentionally, but it might explain the results. Again, I can't tell from the information provided. I just don't know.
I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but after Jerry's reply I went back to look at the pictures and I am a bit skeptical about this one. Look closely. Do you see any scratches or marks of any kind on the blade? This is supposed to be after whacking a concrete block. Not a scratch or mark that I can see and the edge seems to be perfect. Maybe it's the lighting.
Hi, your avatar has the very great eyes but you have used the eyes of Jerry,if you look well or you magnify the photo the thread has some small breakup and some small scratch,in the Busse Sarsquatch the breakups are greater and they are a lot of more and for this they are seen better-Now I ask if the result had been inverse would you have put in discussion the test?
Jerry Busse
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To all who read this thread,
I want to be clear here. I have no doubt that a Randall knife can chop concrete blocks without sustaining major edge damage. They are great knives from a great family and have a golden reputation. :thumbup: Enough said.
MARSUS,
Demonstrating the toughness of one of your many Randall knives would've been a great thread in and of itself.
Trying to make your Randall's look good at the expense of a Busse Combat blade with a thin slicing geometry, was less than stellar. It was kind of a poorly executed sucker punch. . . . Now, I don't know about you, but I'd rather drink than get sucker punched.
We constantly test our blades as we want to know exactly how our knives will respond to nearly every possible situation. Trust me, concrete, rock, and cinder block cutting are daily fare around here. Based on our extensive testing, I will state as fact, that there is no possible strike on the concrete block in your picture that could cause, what appears to be a rectangular cut in the edge of your Sarsquatch. NEVER!
So, as I do with all who have wounded their Busse Combat blades in the pursuit of whatever it is that they are pursuing, I invite you to return your blade, just as it is pictured, in its damaged state. Please do not alter the edge. A quick inspection will tell us what happened to your edge and it will be repaired or replaced at no charge to you. If you would like us to put a regular edge on it for future demolition projects, we will be glad to do that as well.
:thumbup: 
The Busse Combat warranty has you covered at all times. . . . .:thumbup:
Shouldn't we be drinking yet?
Jerry :thumbup: . . .
.
I want to be clear here. I have no doubt that a Randall knife can chop concrete blocks without sustaining major edge damage. They are great knives from a great family and have a golden reputation. :thumbup: Enough said.
MARSUS,
Demonstrating the toughness of one of your many Randall knives would've been a great thread in and of itself.
Trying to make your Randall's look good at the expense of a Busse Combat blade with a thin slicing geometry, was less than stellar. It was kind of a poorly executed sucker punch. . . . Now, I don't know about you, but I'd rather drink than get sucker punched.
We constantly test our blades as we want to know exactly how our knives will respond to nearly every possible situation. Trust me, concrete, rock, and cinder block cutting are daily fare around here. Based on our extensive testing, I will state as fact, that there is no possible strike on the concrete block in your picture that could cause, what appears to be a rectangular cut in the edge of your Sarsquatch. NEVER!
So, as I do with all who have wounded their Busse Combat blades in the pursuit of whatever it is that they are pursuing, I invite you to return your blade, just as it is pictured, in its damaged state. Please do not alter the edge. A quick inspection will tell us what happened to your edge and it will be repaired or replaced at no charge to you. If you would like us to put a regular edge on it for future demolition projects, we will be glad to do that as well.
:thumbup: The Busse Combat warranty has you covered at all times. . . . .:thumbup:
Shouldn't we be drinking yet?
Jerry :thumbup: . . .
.
UffDa
Gold Member
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I am looking at these knives with my own eyes. What I see is the Randall with water on the blade and the picture taken in different light. I enlarged the picture and all I see is what may be a small chip. It is obvious to me that the Randall has some damage that isn't showing up.
Many years ago Bo Randall was asked why his blades are so thick and the bevel were not thinner. He replied that if a customer abused the knife and damaged it, it would reflect on Randall's reputation. He said that his personal knives had a thinner bevel and cut better.
Maybe I'm reading something into this thread that isn't there, but personally, I see no purpose in a test like this. I have tools that are much more appropriate for cutting bricks or concrete blocks. They are much cheaper then a Randall or Busse knife and the edges stand up very well.
Swamp Rat Knife Works did some concrete block chopping without damage to the blade. I suspect that a heavier Busse blade like the old Steel Heart would do very well.
http://www.swampratknifeworks.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000048
Many years ago Bo Randall was asked why his blades are so thick and the bevel were not thinner. He replied that if a customer abused the knife and damaged it, it would reflect on Randall's reputation. He said that his personal knives had a thinner bevel and cut better.
Maybe I'm reading something into this thread that isn't there, but personally, I see no purpose in a test like this. I have tools that are much more appropriate for cutting bricks or concrete blocks. They are much cheaper then a Randall or Busse knife and the edges stand up very well.
Swamp Rat Knife Works did some concrete block chopping without damage to the blade. I suspect that a heavier Busse blade like the old Steel Heart would do very well.
http://www.swampratknifeworks.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000048
t1mpani
Platinum Member
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- 5,526
Okay----some perspective:
Randall and Busse are two knifemakers who have fanatically loyal customer bases, and many of those loyal customers are loyal because their loyalty has been rewarded in terms of performance, value, or just the joy they get from owning and using their knives. There is no way, absolutely no way, a thread like this one would NOT bring about defensiveness, no matter how the results had gone. I'm not accusing fraud or anything else---I've certainly been surprised (and sometimes embarrassed) enough times in my life to "never say never" when it comes to seeing results I didn't expect. The only thing I question is the attempt at innocent surprise being offered by those who, "don't know why people are assuming this was biased" when the original post stated in clear and simple terms that the author was (if I may paraphrase) 'going to show all those kids who think the Randalls are for show and the Busses are for go' how things really are. There's no implying there at all---it's fully clear that the intent is to prove all these whippersnappers wrong before the beatings ever began.
This seems even more apparent by the relative missmatch in the two knives being used. One of Randall's most robust combat knife geometries against one of Busse's thinnest slicer geometries. I take kind of a double affront at this, as it says to the Busse fan in me that the least appropriate knife possible from the Busse line is chosen for the task at hand in order to slant the results; and it implies to the Randall fan in me that the Randall needs a handicap to seem like it's worth anything.
Allow me to put this another way. If it had been a regular Busse like the Badger Attack-E with edge angle of about 30-35 degrees, included (which is also fairly typical of Randall combat knife edge geometry, by the way) that had been abuse-tested against the Randall model 7 (the hunter/fisher) with its high hollow grind and (usually) around 20-25 degree edge angle.......don't you think we'd have heard some people saying this was a tad unfair? And they'd be right. For that matter, let's leave torture testing behind and make the comparison between these same two knives be a slicing test on fresh tomatoes. And we'll follow that with a barong and a katana being used side by side to clear scrub brush.
Or let's leave knives behind entirely:
I'm posting this thread for the benefit of all those Goldwing owners who say that Harley's aren't comfortable for long term riding. The Goldwing and Harley used here were somewhat atypical of the standard offerings from those two outfits, in that the Harley's seat is actually comprised of a miniature posturepedic mattress covered in faun leather, while the Goldwing is equipped with the special order "combat boot tread" seat made out of fiberglass and secured with three hex head bolts in the center . Now after two hours of riding both of these bikes at high speed over the speed bumps in my local grocery store parking lot, I took medium-resolution 'before and after' shots of my ass and am posting the results here in a completely unbiased way...
Ah well....at least one of the bike makers in question is offering to examine the ass in question and refurbish/replace as necessary, following a brief inspection period. It don't get much better than that...
Randall and Busse are two knifemakers who have fanatically loyal customer bases, and many of those loyal customers are loyal because their loyalty has been rewarded in terms of performance, value, or just the joy they get from owning and using their knives. There is no way, absolutely no way, a thread like this one would NOT bring about defensiveness, no matter how the results had gone. I'm not accusing fraud or anything else---I've certainly been surprised (and sometimes embarrassed) enough times in my life to "never say never" when it comes to seeing results I didn't expect. The only thing I question is the attempt at innocent surprise being offered by those who, "don't know why people are assuming this was biased" when the original post stated in clear and simple terms that the author was (if I may paraphrase) 'going to show all those kids who think the Randalls are for show and the Busses are for go' how things really are. There's no implying there at all---it's fully clear that the intent is to prove all these whippersnappers wrong before the beatings ever began.
This seems even more apparent by the relative missmatch in the two knives being used. One of Randall's most robust combat knife geometries against one of Busse's thinnest slicer geometries. I take kind of a double affront at this, as it says to the Busse fan in me that the least appropriate knife possible from the Busse line is chosen for the task at hand in order to slant the results; and it implies to the Randall fan in me that the Randall needs a handicap to seem like it's worth anything.
Allow me to put this another way. If it had been a regular Busse like the Badger Attack-E with edge angle of about 30-35 degrees, included (which is also fairly typical of Randall combat knife edge geometry, by the way) that had been abuse-tested against the Randall model 7 (the hunter/fisher) with its high hollow grind and (usually) around 20-25 degree edge angle.......don't you think we'd have heard some people saying this was a tad unfair? And they'd be right. For that matter, let's leave torture testing behind and make the comparison between these same two knives be a slicing test on fresh tomatoes. And we'll follow that with a barong and a katana being used side by side to clear scrub brush.
Or let's leave knives behind entirely:
I'm posting this thread for the benefit of all those Goldwing owners who say that Harley's aren't comfortable for long term riding. The Goldwing and Harley used here were somewhat atypical of the standard offerings from those two outfits, in that the Harley's seat is actually comprised of a miniature posturepedic mattress covered in faun leather, while the Goldwing is equipped with the special order "combat boot tread" seat made out of fiberglass and secured with three hex head bolts in the center . Now after two hours of riding both of these bikes at high speed over the speed bumps in my local grocery store parking lot, I took medium-resolution 'before and after' shots of my ass and am posting the results here in a completely unbiased way...
Ah well....at least one of the bike makers in question is offering to examine the ass in question and refurbish/replace as necessary, following a brief inspection period. It don't get much better than that...
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MVF
Gold Member
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- Sep 2, 2005
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Aside from the already mentioned differences in edge geometry I was thinking that the non-homogenous nature of the block could have explained the results (I believe this was also brought up) but the blow up in Jerry's last post does look pretty strange to have been from striking a rock. Maybe there was some other random inclusion in the block that the Sarsquatch managed to find?
Either way, thanks for sharing Marsus, and I hope all the controversy doesn't stop you from coming back!
Either way, thanks for sharing Marsus, and I hope all the controversy doesn't stop you from coming back!
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- Jan 6, 2007
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Marsus, perhaps you didn't notice my question before but I just want to know is the edge shoulder on the Randall really 0.06(1/16) inch thick or did you perhaps make an error in unit conversion from mm to inches???
(Because my model 14 has a shoulder thickness of 0.016 inch only)
Also, if it's not too much trouble, I would be interested in the convex edge length (the distance going from edge to shoulder) of the Sarsquatch. This would tell me about the actual shape of the convex.
And...if anyone knows the initial edge angle of the Sarsquatch convex I'd appreciate it!
Thanks! :thumbup:
(Because my model 14 has a shoulder thickness of 0.016 inch only)
Also, if it's not too much trouble, I would be interested in the convex edge length (the distance going from edge to shoulder) of the Sarsquatch. This would tell me about the actual shape of the convex.
And...if anyone knows the initial edge angle of the Sarsquatch convex I'd appreciate it!
Thanks! :thumbup:
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