Randall 14 Vs Busse Sarsquatch

[chuckinohio]

Man, this thread was an interesting read. From my own perspective, I have a few Scrap Yard and Swamp Rat blades, and nothing from the main Busse line.

That was me also my friend, the Busse VS Chain thread changed that. Get a NMSFNO and don't look back:thumbup:

All one can reasonably gather from this discussion is that the Busse and Randall are pretty dang good knives, and that Busse has a great warranty. Beyond that, it's all speculation.

That boils this whole thread down to its essence.

Chuck

 

[Liu Kang]

one way to really settle this whole thing, make and write up a test with what is to be cut or chopped, send what is to be done to both companies and have them make a knife to take to the test. then we test...

 

[MustardMan]

one way to really settle this whole thing, make and write up a test with what is to be cut or chopped, send what is to be done to both companies and have them make a knife to take to the test. then we test...

We would have to wait five years for the Randall to be finished, and by then everyone would forget the parameters for the test

 

[Liu Kang]

We would have to wait five years for the Randall to be finished, and by then everyone would forget the parameters for the test

LMAO
we should let this thread die...

 

[OICU812]

My problem with them is that since W.D. died, the brand largely seems to be resting on its laurels and no longer trying. All of the Randalls I have or have had, have been older ones, and I've never ordered one new. However, of all of my knife knut friends, two have had serious issues with knives they'd ordered in the past five years. The first ordered nickel furniture on his knife and no sawback, and after four years received a knife with brass furniture and with a sawback. No problem--mistakes happen. He contacted them and sent it back, assured that he'd have the correct knife in short order. A couple of weeks go by and he doesn't hear anything, so he calls to verify that they'd received it. Get's a "it's pretty busy here now and you just have to wait your turn" answer. Okay, the tone bugged him a little bit, but he knew the busy claim was accurate so he waited some more. At three months, he called back and asked for an update, and they didn't have record of his knife coming in. So he went down to the post office, got them to print him out a page that showed proof that the box had been signed for, scanned it and emailed it to them, and after about a week received in the mail his replacement knife, which had no sawback but still a brass guard.

Things have changed since Bo passed, but so has everything else. One thing that has not changed is the mission statement of the company. It has been the same since 1937. Not sure what "not trying" means, but as with all companies making handmade items, you will certainly have some errors. That is the way it is. What suprises me is the way you say your friend was treated. First you need to consider the hundreds of phone calls GTR gets every day like "my spacers don't look the same color as the knife I got last year", or, "I ordered a 7" blade and mine is 6 15/16", and, " I can't shave the hair off my scrotum with the dull edge", etc. Of course the latter complaint is a stretch, but you get the point. It boggles the mind what the jerk-offs complain about. Tjey order a hand made knife yet want machine made characteristics. In GTR's defense, he is a very nice and humble guy. The whole family is interested in others maker's knives of all kinds. The museum is a clear indicator of that. At shows, shop guys as well as family members generally pick up a couple of pieces of other maker's cutlery becuase they just like knives. There is no hate towards other makers on the Orange Blossom Trail, in fact the exact opposite. The Randall's do not particpate nor endorse any types of comparitive "testing", leaving such edeavors to the pundits. Each maker or manufacturers wares must stand on it's own merits, bottom line.

The other issue was just this past year. Now, this is a LONG time customer--Jaimie's in his sixties and ordered his first Randall when he was something like fifteen or sixteen. He carried one in Vietnam and has used them hunting and fishing all over Canada and most of the northern US. His expectations (and high opinion) of them are based on his experiences over those years. So, the most recent one he got was a model 14, and he took it deer hunting/camping with him. When cleaning time came, he used it to split the sternum. Now, we're not talking about chopping bone here. This is a slice against an extremely soft and flexible bone that you just pull right through. I've done it several times with a Buck 110. He heard several popping sounds during the pull-through, and when the blade came out he found several huge chunks missing out of the blade. I don't just mean the very edge, these had gone up into the primary grind. When he called them to talk about it, he received a fairly nasty rebuff saying that if he was dumb enough to "chop bone" with his knife then it was abuse and his own fault. He's more the type to avoid confrontations, but after I heard that and saw for myself what damage the knife had taken, I took pictures and emailed them to Randall to say that even if the use were abusive--which it wasn't--the damage seemed excessive and someone might want to take a look at it. Basically the response I got back can be summed up as, "thank you--we know how to make knives."

I'm not calling anyone out, but am not buying those chips out of the blade were due to "an extremely soft and flexible bone that you just pull right through". Something else is going on here and it just isn't a 52HRC vs a 58 HRC.

I took it down to a local machine/tool shop and asked for a hardness test on the C scale. This had to be done on the flat portions of course, but as the 440B knives are not differentially hardened anyway it told me all I need to know. Testing five points along the blade, the hardness ranged from 50-52 HRC. Pretty much the hardness of a hammer or cheap screwdriver. So I got them to print me out the results and gave them to Jaime (the owner) to send back along with his knife, and fired off a copy to Gary Randall asking him if five to seven points below the stated hardness fell under the heading of 'knowing how to make a knife.' In the end, finally, they sent Jaimie a new one. It took like five or six months but they did it. No acknowledgment of the mistake or the apologies for the attitudes presented, but he did get a knife back.

If you sent a condecending letter to me being Gary Randall questioning my 'knowing how to make a knife', I would probably be less inclined to give any assistance. Quite churlish and pejorative of you to take that tone.

Here's the original (and the little dots along the blade above the primary grind are the hardness testing points). Keep in mind, this was from slicing--not chopping, batoning or any impact of any kind.

Still not buying it.

Now, my point--yes, believe it or not I have one. EVERY company that makes anything, knives or cars or bars of soap, will have duds make it through the process. Just a mathematical certainty. But, the way the problem is dealt with says a lot about the company. Bo Randall would have bent over backwards to make these kind of problems right. It was his responsibility to make each knife with his name on it be as good as it could be, not the customer's. But, of course, he's the one that made the company what it was.

Again, your veiled insults directed at Gary Randall are unecessary. It seems you may have brought some of this alleged 'attitude' upon yourself with your self admitted feckless communication skills. Here is a novel thought, perhaps it was your surly attitude that was the problem.

I've had occasion to make use of the Busse warranty. It wasn't actually on a Busse but a Swamp Rat with a bit of a HT problem, but the same thing applies all over all of their brands. I emailed Eric Isaacson, and got a reply both from he and Jerry in the same day. When the knife got to them, I got called, had the problem explained to me, and was holding my new knife within the week.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Also, Bo was an innovator. In WW2, 440B stainless was a new and awesome cutlery steel---a stainless steel that could hold an edge!! Incredible!!! Bo was just about the only knifemaker using it, and spent time working with it to maximize its potential as a cutlery steel. You know what else was new then? The new Goodyear all-nylon corded tires! Up to 2.5 times as strong as traditional tires using Rayon!! Hell yeah, baby!!! Often lasted up to ten or even fifteen thousand miles without a blowout!!! What more do you need?...

You may want to read up on your history of RMK. For all practical purposes, Bo did not use stainless during WWII save for possibly a few 'fish and bar' knives with most of those being made prior to the war.

So, the comparison I'd make from my own experiences would go something like----------

Randall (under W.D.)---dedicated customer service, made purpose-built knives out of a material they'd put time and work into developing to maximize the type of performance they were building for.

Busse (Under Jerry Busse)---dedicated customer service, makes purpose-built knives out of a material they've put time and work into developing to maximize the type of performance they build for.

Randall (after W.D.)---still utilizing the cutting edge of 1940s materials technology in spite of an explosion of options within the industry, with a customer service attitude that seems to be "there are plenty of people who want 'em so just feel lucky you got one."

Busse (after Jerry)---time will tell.

Randall made its name because of its high quality products, and its willingness to stand behind them, and from that grew a desireability that drove up both the price and the prestige of owning one. Busse has done the same. Right now, Busse is standing behind their products. Randall will if you twist their arm and hold their toes to the fire, all the while spouting derisive comments toward you. So, is a new Randall capable of being your battle buddy? Yep. Can you count on them if something goes wrong? Well, I can only speak for myself...

Again, you make an inaccurate statement. Randall prices are not and never have been driven by demand. Prices are determined by labor, material, and overhead costs with a reasonable net profit.

Proof of this is if you order a knife today with the delivery time approximately 60 months out, upon delivery you pay the price of the knife at the time of ordering. How can you complain about that?

1940's materials and technology? Perhaps YOU can make a better knife, the Randall catalog even tells you how to do it. Knock yourself out.

As a final note from the Randall catalog,

"You cannot cut bone, nails, bolts or pierce metal with a cutting edge and point designed for meat despite some advertising to the contrary. We have done extensive tests and find such feats cannot be performed unless the design of the cutting edge and point is altered. Using a fine hunting knife for an axe will naturally damage its cutting edge. And pounding, prying, or throwing a knife not designed for these purposes is likely to damage it. We strongly suggest that if you'll use your knife for a special heavy-duty purpose, let us know when you order so we can shape the blade and bevel accordingly."

Read it, understand it, try and absorb it. Then start over.

 

[giant1]

Things have changed since Bo passed, but so has everything else. One thing that has not changed is the mission statement of the company. It has been the same since 1937. Not sure what "not trying" means, but as with all companies making handmade items, you will certainly have some errors. That is the way it is. What suprises me is the way you say your friend was treated. First you need to consider the hundreds of phone calls GTR gets every day like "my spacers don't look the same color as the knife I got last year", or, "I ordered a 7" blade and mine is 6 15/16", and, " I can't shave the hair off my scrotum with the dull edge", etc. Of course the latter complaint is a stretch, but you get the point. It boggles the mind what the jerk-offs complain about. Tjey order a hand made knife yet want machine made characteristics. In GTR's defense, he is a very nice and humble guy. The whole family is interested in others maker's knives of all kinds. The museum is a clear indicator of that. At shows, shop guys as well as family members generally pick up a couple of pieces of other maker's cutlery becuase they just like knives. There is no hate towards other makers on the Orange Blossom Trail, in fact the exact opposite. The Randall's do not particpate nor endorse any types of comparitive "testing", leaving such edeavors to the pundits. Each maker or manufacturers wares must stand on it's own merits, bottom line.



I'm not calling anyone out, but am not buying those chips out of the blade were due to "an extremely soft and flexible bone that you just pull right through". Something else is going on here and it just isn't a 52HRC vs a 58 HRC.



If you sent a condecending letter to me being Gary Randall questioning my 'knowing how to make a knife', I would probably be less inclined to give any assistance. Quite churlish and pejorative of you to take that tone.



Still not buying it.



Again, your veiled insults directed at Gary Randall are unecessary. It seems you may have brought some of this alleged 'attitude' upon yourself with your self admitted feckless communication skills. Here is a novel thought, perhaps it was your surly attitude that was the problem.



You are comparing apples to oranges.



You may want to read up on your history of RMK. For all practical purposes, Bo did not use stainless during WWII save for possibly a few 'fish and bar' knives with most of those being made prior to the war.



Again, you make an inaccurate statement. Randall prices are not and never have been driven by demand. Prices are determined by labor, material, and overhead costs with a reasonable net profit.

Proof of this is if you order a knife today with the delivery time approximately 60 months out, upon delivery you pay the price of the knife at the time of ordering. How can you complain about that?

1940's materials and technology? Perhaps YOU can make a better knife, the Randall catalog even tells you how to do it. Knock yourself out.

As a final note from the Randall catalog,




Read it, understand it, try and absorb it. Then start over.

Wow OICU812

You certainly don't sound 1 sided and biased in your comments

 

[OICU812]

Wow OICU812

You certainly don't sound 1 sided and biased in your comments

Wow giant1, call 'em as I see 'em. Please explain to me and the rest of the reader where the 'bias' is. Curious minds want to know.

 

[giant1]

Wow giant1, call 'em as I see 'em. Please explain to me and the rest of the reader where the 'bias' is. Curious minds want to know.

You virtually call him a liar a couple of times.

A couple of your responses are just throw away lines used to rebuff his issues.

I think he had a reasonable complaint backed up with factual evidence by way of the hardness test.

If he spent $500 to $600 on a knife he should expect a fairly timely and understanding response Randall Co.

That was your second post on BF, you don't work at Randall do you???

 

[t1mpani]

LOL Did your toes get stepped on, big guy?

I never said Randall had raised it's prices, I said that the demand and prices for Randall knives were driven by their reputation for quality which had been earned over time.

I will admit that it sounds like I claimed that the Randall's in WWII were stainless, whereas I was really using WWII as a time-frame, as that's when the fame really started to build. You may choose to believe this as a dodge if you will, but I'd hasten to remind you that Goodyear all nylon corded tires (mentioned in the same paragraph) weren't IN that war, either.

My attitudes towards Gary Randall or the current company are not based on my not liking him--I do not know the man and so couldn't possibly make the call whether I like him or not. My view comes from the only two transactions that have been made with the Randall company in the last ten years that I've had any connection with, which regarded orders friends of mine had placed. Again, I do not fault Randall at all for making mistakes. Every single knife maker from Busse to Cold Steel to Puma will have imperfect or not-exactly-as-described knives slip out, there's no way to get around it. How those problems are handled is the question, though, and the poor manner in which it was handled is what bothered me.

I don't actually expect you to pay any more attention to this post than you did to my original as you seem more interested in throwing a temper tantrum, but again my first communication to Randall--following the chew-out my friend received on the phone--was nothing more than a collection of pictures along with my view that the damage seemed excessive even for what would be considered abusive use, which the knife was not subjected to, and they might want to examine it more closely before making a call. No commentary, no stones being cast, just visual aid offered to see if they wanted to take another look. The dismissive, condescending tone received in reply was their contribution to the back and forth, not mine.

The knife's owner is, as I've said, non-confrontational and was going to leave things be, but in my view things had progressed from honest mistake to poor customer service. So, I threw the "knowing how to make a knife" line back at them with a snide comment or two, hoping that somebody would get pissed off enough to want to shut me up and prove me wrong by taking the knife back and telling me I didn't know what I was talking about. They didn't. They sent a replacement knife. And whatever you think of the way I handled speaking to them that second time, it couldn't have possibly contributed to their response since they never responded to that second message. Now you can take that as you like, but as I see it, based on the amount of lip they were dishing out initially, the later silence seemed to speak volumes.

As to the rest, whether you buy it or not, I really couldn't care less. The opinion of someone who considers people "jerkoffs" because they're disappointed in something that was not made the way they ordered it (and paid hundreds of dollars and waited half a decade for) doesn't impress me. The chips happened from forces directed at slight angles to the main line of the cut, which can happen no matter how careful you're being when pulling through a tough cutting medium, and I know the cold contributed as well. When the knife is at 57HRC, the edge might roll a bit. When it's at 50, or even 52, apparently it fractures. The handmade argument doesn't fly either. We're not talking grind lines being slightly off, we're talking about paying attention to the materials that were selected. If they order brass and you give them nickel, you've made a mistake. If they order no sawback and you cut saw teeth on it, you made a mistake. Fine, everybody makes mistakes. The burden of making it right is on maker, not the customer. That's true of knives, Rolls Royces and steaks in Kansas city.

Now I will make the admission, upon reflection, that the irritation-inducing reply I received was not signed "Gary" at the bottom, so it may well not have been from him and so I apologize for bringing his name into it. I tend to look at things from the Army viewpoint, that whoever's in charge is the one at fault, and so I directed my opinions in that way. If it was not him, then I hope some general ass-kicking either has taken place, or will, because whoever it was needs to understand that he or she represents the company, not him or herself. And perhaps it was just somebody having a really bad day (or month), but in that case they need to excuse themselves from answering the phone or emails.

In the end, the incident was resolved, and whether it was because of my tone or not, I'm glad they came through.

 

[OICU812]

You virtually call him a liar a couple of times.

I just said I ain't buying the missing metal from the blade of that knife were due to some soft tissue as he claimed. Period. Pretty easy to figure that one out.

A couple of your responses are just throw away lines used to rebuff his issues.

whatever

I think he had a reasonable complaint backed up with factual evidence by way of the hardness test.

That is wonnerful, you think he has a reasonable complaint. I think his insulting tone is unwarrented, irrespective of whoever the maker is.

If he spent $500 to $600 on a knife he should expect a fairly timely and understanding response Randall Co.

I think you need to reread the section of my post referencing the hundreds of nimrods calling RMK every day with inane complaints about insignificant items. Not to mention your boy questioning the knowledge and/or ability of one of the most respected names in cutlery. WTF?

That was your second post on BF, you don't work at Randall do you???

Hardly. The reason it was my second post is because I don't particpate in this BS, that is what it is, because that is all you can expect from the internet commandos hiding behind keyboards. Glad you reminded me why I leave this stuff to the groms.

 

[OICU812]

LOL Did your toes get stepped on, big guy?

Nope, I'm cool.

I never said Randall had raised it's prices, I said that the demand and prices for Randall knives were driven by their reputation for quality which had been earned over time.

Ahhh, I beg to differ and I quote, "......from that grew a desireability that drove up both the price........", iniimating that demand inspired Randall to raise prices. That in fact is not true. I will give you that may not be what you intended to imply.

I encourage you to reread my initial post. Consider those at RMK that get calls or receive knives in the shop that are grossly abused and are demanded to give a replacement knife. Gary or whoever has to make a decision if the claim is reasonable or even valid for that matter.

For example, the initiator of this thread says he was busting concrete containing aggragate with a model 14, obviously beyond the scope of the knife's intended use. What if he had some massive chips on it and called Gary or sent it in and said exactly what you are saying about your friends knife? Oh, those chips happened when I was cutting through some tendons on a deer. Reeeally.

Those things happen to them allot. They have been at this a long time and have heard every story in the book, I promise you. So, perhaps it was a bit of a misunderstanding, a bad day, or whatever. I don't think that is generally what you should expect nor get from RMK. Just remember, you get more with honey than vinegar. That works both ways.

 

[giant1]

I just said I ain't buying the missing metal from the blade of that knife were due to some soft tissue as he claimed. Period. Pretty easy to figure that one out.

You don't believe him, I accept that we only have his version but why call him out on that if you cannot say for sure one way or the other?

whatever

Another throw away line

That is wonnerful, you think he has a reasonable complaint. I think his insulting tone is unwarrented, irrespective of whoever the maker is.

I think you need to reread the section of my post referencing the hundreds of nimrods calling RMK every day with inane complaints about insignificant items. Not to mention your boy questioning the knowledge and/or ability of one of the most respected names in cutlery. WTF?

I agree, no need to be disrespectful, but you also need to acknowledge that he claims that his friend was treated poorly by someone at Randall. There is no excuse for that, I don't care how many "Nimrods" call with unwarranted claims. Randall are in the business of dealing with the public and that requires the ability sort out the "Nimrods" from genuine customers rather than assume that everyone should be tarred with the same brush.

Hardly. The reason it was my second post is because I don't particpate in this BS, that is what it is, because that is all you can expect from the internet commandos hiding behind keyboards. Glad you reminded me why I leave this stuff to the groms.

Uh ha.............

Check out the nearest mirror pal, you might get a shock

 

[t1mpani]

Ahhh, I beg to differ and I quote, "......from that grew a desireability that drove up both the price........", iniimating that demand inspired Randall to raise prices. That in fact is not true. I will give you that may not be what you intended to imply.

Ahah, duly noted--and I must admit this mis-communication was entirely of my own doing in its lack of clarity. That comment was directed specifically at earlier posts of some who were decrying the inflated secondary market prices of Busses, intended to point out that the same is true of Randalls, and that in both cases the prestige of ownership and willingness to pay for it are not something that should be 'blamed' on the knives, but on re-reading I'll be damned if it comes off that way. I'll take a few fork-fulls of crow on that one---well intentioned but very badly put.

I encourage you to reread my initial post. Consider those at RMK that get calls or receive knives in the shop that are grossly abused and are demanded to give a replacement knife. Gary or whoever has to make a decision if the claim is reasonable or even valid for that matter.

Absolutely, and it's a pain in the ass. No matter---every single customer who brings an issue should have their issue looked into and decided on an individual basis, not based on how anyone feels about the last ten guys they talked to. In this case, a Rockwell hardness off by an amount that means the tempering process (for 440B) would have to be off by 110 to 130 degrees Fahrenheit, assuming the proper initial temperature was reached. In most cases, complaining customers probably have unrealistic expectations. In this case, there was a serious error made during the production of this knife, and it went out softer than most pairs of blunt-nosed scissors that you can buy at Walmart. Works for paper, but it doesn't matter if it had come from Randall or Busse or anybody else---you put steel out at that hardness and grind it to the much more acute geometry of a knife edge, it will be exceptionally fragile. That's a major mistake that needs correcting. Seemingly, except for having finally been shamed into it by the inclusion of a Rockwell hardness analysis provided by a third party, they weren't even willing to look at the knife.

For example, the initiator of this thread says he was busting concrete containing aggragate with a model 14, obviously beyond the scope of the knife's intended use. What if he had some massive chips on it and called Gary or sent it in and said exactly what you are saying about your friends knife? Oh, those chips happened when I was cutting through some tendons on a deer. Reeeally.

Again, it might well have been the case, they don't know Jaime from Adam and I understand that. But you don't ASSUME it's the case without at least looking at the thing. One thing that goes against this specific example you're giving is that the factory finish on the soft knife was completely unblemished, with none of the scratches or surrounding blunting that would accompany hard impacts into concrete or anything similar. Look closely at the picture I provided. The edges surrounding the chips are absolutely perfect, with no deformation of any kind, while the spots in between have broken away. You don't achieve that result smacking concrete, rocks, or anything else. And even playing devil's advocate and saying it could happen, how many people will try to chop something with the rear portion of a blade instead of the front, or at least, the middle?

I absolutely agree that it is on a maker to maker basis, they make their own rules for what constitutes abuse and what they will and won't guarantee, and it is up to them to judge each case as it comes up. It's a little difficult to judge if you don't even want to examine it. I'll also ask you this: do you believe the people at Randall are pushovers? That they'll go back on their policy of not warrantying damage due to abuse if somebody complains? I don't think so. I say again, they replaced the knife. They didn't argue anymore, they didn't fire off any final shots via email or phone, they replaced it. Do you really believe, if upon examining the knife they truly thought the user was at fault instead of the knife, that they would do that? No. I don't doubt their knowledge, nor do I doubt their integrity, but offer evidence as to what I see as a weakness in their customer service. If I go to a restaurant and a server answers my request for a slightly more well-done steak with, "Our chef has prepared thousands of steaks. You think YOU can cook a better one?!?!" he or she and I would be having a talk with the manager in about twenty seconds. I don't care what kind of day you've had---if you're a professional, you don't treat anybody as a problem-customer until you've determined their complaint is unfounded or unreasonable. Period. Pretty easy to figure that one out.

Just remember, you get more with honey than vinegar. That works both ways.

Which you reinforce by the notably less abrasive quality of your most recent post.

Seriously, I agree 100%, and I don't shake in that even though in this particular case the reverse was true (as nothing happened until their vinegar was recycled and directed back at them). I'm neither confrontational nor averse to confrontation, but rather interested in obtaining results. In the grand majority of my experience, having all the ducks in a row and presenting my case in a calm and reasonable way is the surest means of getting somewhere. If and when the other party seems more amenable to trading barbs and general smartass-ness, I can do it all day.

I understand that you don't believe the cause of the edge damage. You'll have to accept my understanding and be satisfied with that. I have known the owner for years, have hunted with him for years, and quite simply have never had a reason to doubt his word, or suspect that on this--which is something like his seventh or eighth Randall in the last forty-whatever years--he suddenly lost his head and decided he'd try to cut rebar with it. You can believe what you will. Like I said, once they saw it they replaced the knife. This tells me that they determined the damage was due to the defect of the knife and not because what was done with it fell outside what they're willing to cover. If that hadn't been their determination, they wouldn't have replaced it. And though I know it wouldn't be your intention, you're insulting their knowledge and experience rather pointedly if you're claiming that they wouldn't be able to determine the type and cause of damage once they had the knife in their hands.

 

[OICU812]

I can't speak for RMK's customer service in every case. I do know they are a good group of guys at the shop and as with Busse or whomever, try and do the best job possible.

If in fact your friend's knife did chip during the use as your say, I gotta beleive it was more than cartiledge in the sternum that did it, even at 52 HRC. Had to hit some bone. As stated, it could have been an error by the forger on that blade. Hopefully it wasn't endemic of the blades forged on that given day! I don't think it is realistic that the temp of the forge is off, so perhaps your friends' blade was removed from the forge a few minutes too early?

I want to state again as Randall claims in their catalog, certain knives are designed for certain uses. They are also very clear on what knives shouldn't be used for i.e. throwing if not designed for throwing. I think we all can agree that some people can't help themselves and abuse their hardware, and then when it breaks, want to point their finger at the maker/manufacturer for an inferior product. Like you said, there isn't any magic steel, and I don't disagree that mistakes in production and/or customer service can be made. I just think RMK may be a bit cautious when chipped blades come in as to the actual cause.

Oh by the way, I can cook a better steak!!

 

[t1mpani]

Oh by the way, I can cook a better steak!!

Well so can I, but I go to a restaurant to indulge in laziness.

Fair enough. Mistakes do happen, and my own experiences with Randall knives as well as those of both the other two guys I'm talking about (both of whom have more Randalls than I) has not been that issues with the quality of build are common in the least, and their fit and finish is hard to fault too. As such, I guess the fairest thing is to chalk the CS issues up as a similar anomaly. And who knows, even if it wasn't an anomaly, but instead somebody there whose personality tends towards the grumpy, perhaps there'll be a small memory of this one time that sticks in the back of his or her head when the next issue comes up. Like my sister's ex-boyfriend, the defense attorney, said of his clients, "Most of them are guilty as hell, but I get payed to treat 'em like they're not."

Classic knives with a great tradition, that hasn't ever been in question.

 

[Samael]

"Somebody there whose personality tends towards the grumpy." Gosh, I can't imagine who that could be. (Love you anyway, Val.)

 

[J85909266]

The damage difference was simply a matter of blade geometry. There is literally nothing to be gleaned from the test regarding the toughness of the knives compared to each other. That same edge on the Randall would have been as bad or worse, and a regular combat grade edge on that Sarsquatch would have been little more than dulled from the use on concrete. I know this for a fact as I have attacked concrete with multiple Busses and seen almost no damage incurred, less even, than the Randall in the thread.

So, in short: Open your eyes, people. There is nothing to see here. It was just the wrong edge for the job, is all.

 

[t1mpani]

Oh that was determined ages ago----we've moved on to new and exciting things to waste our time arguing about. Keeping long threads alive is hard work...

 

[PatriotDan]

a regular combat grade edge on that Sarsquatch would have been little more than dulled from the use on concrete.

What is the Sarsquatch convex edge geometry like, exactly? can someone please tell.

 

[J85909266]

It's a very thin, zero edge. It's about the thinnest, weakest edge you can put on a big knife like that. Makes for mean slicing and deep bites in wood, tough.