Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

Jim, thanks for all you do...man has there been some interesting, eye popping results to ponder lately. That cruware caught me by surprise, the S110V Manix LW and then the regrind numbers really brings home the role blade geometry plays. Good stuff!
 
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Yes, edge geometry plays a very significant role. These tests can be more accurately described as measurements of cutting force, since edge retention is only one variable that affects the cutting force. Edge geometry obviously plays a very significant role, as can be seen from the results of the same knife in the same steel at very different edge thicknesses. It would be good to add the edge thickness to each of the knives so its impact can be considered. Differences in edge thickness could easily explain some of the results, and the numbers should not be taken as absolutes of how a particular steel performs. More aptly, it is how that steel on that knife at that edge geometry performed. Grind it differently, and you will see different results.

In any case, this is a wealth of information, and I hope it continues to develop with more variables identified to expand understanding.
 
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Don M said:
Yes, edge geometry plays a very significant role. These tests can be more accurately described as measurements of cutting force, since edge retention is only one variable that affects the cutting force. Edge geometry obviously plays a very significant role, as can be seen from the results of the same knife in the same steel at very different edge thicknesses. It would be good to add the edge thickness to each of the knives so its impact can be considered. Differences in edge thickness could easily explain some of the results, and the numbers should not be taken as absolutes of how a particular steel performs. More aptly, it is how that steel on that knife at that edge geometry performed. Grind it differently, and you will see different results.

In any case, this is a wealth of information, and I hope it continues to develop with more variables identified to expand understanding.
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Other than the ones I noted the only one that is thinner than ave is the S110V Mule team that is .015-.018....

The rest are in the .025"-.030" range, that's standard thickness.
 
Ankerson said:
Other than the ones I noted the only one that is thinner than ave is the S110V Mule team that is .015-.018....

The rest are in the .025"-.030" range, that's standard thickness.
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Not to mention 30° non-micro same finish from EP across the board.
 
nccole said:
Not to mention 30° non-micro same finish from EP across the board.
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Yes, the edge geometry is the same on all the knives across the board at 15 degrees per side (30 Degrees inclusive) as was noted from the beginning.

I never said it was the one and only answer, but only a guide. :)
 
Don M said:
Yes, edge geometry plays a very significant role. These tests can be more accurately described as measurements of cutting force, since edge retention is only one variable that affects the cutting force. Edge geometry obviously plays a very significant role, as can be seen from the results of the same knife in the same steel at very different edge thicknesses. It would be good to add the edge thickness to each of the knives so its impact can be considered. Differences in edge thickness could easily explain some of the results, and the numbers should not be taken as absolutes of how a particular steel performs. More aptly, it is how that steel on that knife at that edge geometry performed. Grind it differently, and you will see different results.

In any case, this is a wealth of information, and I hope it continues to develop with more variables identified to expand understanding.
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The actual edge geometry is the same on all the knives across the board at 15 Degrees per side....

Now some notes on blade geometry, the actual behind the edge thickness can vary as much as .003" across the same blade..... That's why I say the ave is .025" to .030".....

So in the end I control the things (Variables) that I can, sharpening, edge finish, edge geometry, stopping point, and the media.

In the coarse edge section the actual knives are noted.

I note the HRC hardness when I can.

I note any major differences in blade geometry when there is one.

Like I said from the beginning it's a guide not the absolute answer.....
 
Ankerson said:
The actual edge geometry is the same on all the knives across the board at 15 Degrees per side....

Now some notes on blade geometry, the actual behind the edge thickness can vary as much as .003" across the same blade..... That's why I say the ave is .025" to .030".....

I note the HRC hardness when I can.

Like I said from the beginning it's a guide not the absolute answer.....
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Thanks, that is useful information. I knew you sharpened them all to the same grit and 15 DPS, knowing they are all in the same range of edge thickness unless noted helps. And yes, I use it as a guide not an absolute.

I always see some variation on edge thickness on any given knife, usually within 0.001" to 0.002"
 
Don M said:
Thanks, that is useful information. I knew you sharpened them all to the same grit and 15 DPS, knowing they are all in the same range of edge thickness unless noted helps. And yes, I use it as a guide not an absolute.

I always see some variation on edge thickness on any given knife, usually within 0.001" to 0.002"
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There aren't any absolutes. :D

I don't care how it's done or by who. :)

All we can do is the best that we can.
 
And if your hands shake like mine... :D I gotta figure out a jig for holding the calipers or knife somehow. Whenever I try to take a measurement, I have to resharpen because I invariably ding the edge.
 
sodak said:
And if your hands shake like mine... :D I gotta figure out a jig for holding the calipers or knife somehow. Whenever I try to take a measurement, I have to resharpen because I invariably ding the edge.
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Been there, done that, had to start over.... :D
 
Ankerson said:
It really was impressive for a production knife that was reground, and at 62 RC....

It wasn't what I would call sharp in the end, but you could still cut stuff with it, cardboard etc, it would take one heck of a lot of real world cutting to get it to that point.....

Could have cut a lot more rope as it was still cutting it clean,
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This is impressive and makes me want to send my Benchmade 710 in M390 out for a regrind, along with just about every other knife I have... :) That and I have to laugh at you saying it wasn't sharp, since most "average" people would consider a knife that can slice printer paper as "crazy sharp"... Only us knife geeks would consider it "dull"...

Many would consider tree-topping hairs and slicing phone books and tissue as "fantasy" or hyperbole, even splitting hairs is beyond comprehensible to the average person. Surprising since virtually everyone has an uses knives in their homes. For these people a knife this sharp would be a "lifetime" knife, or they'd chip or break it in no time using it improperly.... Although thin edges still take a fair bit of force to chip in the super steels.

I'm thinking about checking a K390 Custom I have for edge thickness. Its supposed to be Rc64... :)
 
Rapt_up said:
This is impressive and makes me want to send my Benchmade 710 in M390 out for a regrind, along with just about every other knife I have... :) That and I have to laugh at you saying it wasn't sharp, since most "average" people would consider a knife that can slice printer paper as "crazy sharp"... Only us knife geeks would consider it "dull"...

Many would consider tree-topping hairs and slicing phone books and tissue as "fantasy" or hyperbole, even splitting hairs is beyond comprehensible to the average person. Surprising since virtually everyone has an uses knives in their homes. For these people a knife this sharp would be a "lifetime" knife, or they'd chip or break it in no time using it improperly.... Although thin edges still take a fair bit of force to chip in the super steels.

I'm thinking about checking a K390 Custom I have for edge thickness. Its supposed to be Rc64... :)
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Who made the K390 knife?
 
Hi Jim,

Im a big fan of your work! :D

I just ordered a few elmax para's and would be honored to send you one for testing... Especially if it came back with one of your nuke-ler edges.:D

Thanks.
 
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