RAT Fighting Knife

R.A.T. said:
We train people to survive, escape, etc. but in all reality how many people will ever use that?
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Not only that, how many people will truly be thrust into a situation that is not of their own making and then have to rely on those skills in order to survive? Most of the people that make the news in a "survival situation" did something stupid or to paraphrase someone none of you know, "several something stupids" in order to get into that problem to start with.

I mean, that's not counting military guys or Park Rangers or people like the pilots you train that fly over remote areas of the planet. That's the risk of a profession, but when you see the people in the news, it's generally because they were being a balloon-knot and got themselves into the situation to start with and/or made it worse.

Which leads us to...

So, to say that knife fighting is useless is limiting yourself, even though it's highly unlikely you will never use what you train for. Doesn't make it wrong though.

Jeff
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The problem with discussing something like "knife-fighting" is that you have already set the parameters of what you are going to talk about by simply boxing yourself in and saying, "knife-fighting."

One thing, and this is not pointed at you Jeff, or anyone else, in my experience, most people that say or hint at; "I'd just shoot your ass" don't have a gun on them when they say it. While I believe that you and the other fellow in the thread carry whenever you can, most people that say this stuff don't. It's one-upmanship on the Internet and gun shop and gun show bravado and the truth is, a lot of people that do carry that handgun, it's a talisman to them as well and they wouldn't know if they should shit or go blind if someone really stuck them with a knife of any type or size. Let alone worked them over like it was a cell block.

Firearms are not the panacea to the problems of all things self-defense, either. You can kill someone in close quarters with a handgun and the guy can fall on top of you with a knife and kill you. Imagine standing up a barbell with 180 pounds on it, tape a knife to it and try to catch that when it falls.

When I start seeing the statements about guns are the max OR knives are the max, it's just like reading the old gun rags, ".45 ACP Vs. 9mm: The FINAL Word." Or, "Revolver Vs. Semiautomatic: Something to Ponder." Yeah, we need to ponder all of that some more. Knife crap? "Folder or Fixed Blade: Which Way?" Or, "Double-edged or Single-edged: What Cuts it in a 'Knife-Fight,'" hardy-har-har...

The one thing that most people fail to comprehend in discussions like this is the fact that it might be rare to become involved in a "knife fight," as you pointed out, but you are much more likely to use the knife in some other type of disparity of force situation in a situation where you don't have a handgun or for whatever reason the handgun would not be the better choice...
 
If you do go for the handgun, make sure you hold it sideways so those silly old sights don't stick up in the way and block your view of the target.
 
R.A.T. said:
How dare you say there is no such thing as good lite beer!!!!! :D
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Don't EVER argue with someone who is Scot, Irish and German about beer or whiskey! ;)

R.A.T. said:
In all seriousness, I think any tactics, tools and situations are always fluid depending on the circumstances. To say it is useless to fight train with a certain tool is as wrong as saying it is mandatory that we fight train with certain tools.
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How dare you make sense!! :p

Stickfighter2 said:
Damn! All this talking has left me dry.

I need a good lite beer! :D
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Hope you don't mind a long wait! Until Hell freezes over. . .
 
If my Dad were alive, he would be screaming like Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet. "PABST BLUE RIBBON!" 8-)

Whatever happened to plain Stroh's? I like Michelob and Michelob Dark, I like Beck's and Beck's Dark, Corona and XX. I see all of my neighbors drinking this Modelo shit leaving the cans all over the place...maybe I should try that. :D

Honestly though, I don't even drink enough in a year to warrant a serious discussion of it beyond that. I love the occasional Screwdriver or Mountain Screw as well...good Vodka required but don't make a habit of that...not since I was about 22-25 years old. :D
 
When I was in college, I fancied myself a "beer snob" and drank whatever fancy microbrews I could find. When I was in grad school I drank a lot of Stroh's and PBR. (The bar we hung out at had 75 cent draws of PBR every day!) I'm at the age and level of alcoholism now that I've settled on what I like. Budweiser is all that I require. I kill that stuff on the regular. One of the best things about being a Bud drinker is that you can get it anywhere in the world. Though in Korea, I go with the local stuff. The Koreans make some killer beer- and it comes in these bloody great big jugs- like 2 liter bottles- but of beer!

Light beer is an abomination.
 
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moonwilson said:
I'm at the age and level of alcoholism now that I've settled on what I like. Budweiser is all that I require. I kill that stuff on the regular.
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The Baby Jesus on a Strange Mode of Transportation. Budweiser IS a lite beer, FFS. It's piss. Even if you are an alcoholic, good grief! :D
 
I'm still a beer snob.

If you look in the fridge in my workshop, where I keep all the beer locked up and safe, I have Corona for BBQ, Hinnies for dinners and Coors for company.

When I go out for dinner, if it's not Dennys or a Chinese buffet, I go to a nice little japanese place near my house and the house beer is Kirin Ichibon and I've taken a liking to that too.

First time I had it, I thought it tasted like dragon piss and thats still what I call it even though I like it.
 
Old Brown Dog Ale from Smuttynose Brewery is what's in my fridge at the moment. I also have a bottle of Arrogant Bastard Ale in the fridge that I'm afraid to drink cause it might make me even more of one. I'm a beer snob.
 
I never found a microbrew I liked. I tried a bunch thinking I'd find a magic potion that would make me really like beer. Never happened.

I still don't like beer that much, I guess I'm just used to it.

When I say I'm a beer snob, I just mean I'm picky. I only like a few beers and don't really want to drink anything else.
 
shotgunner11 said:
I go to a nice little japanese place near my house and the house beer is Kirin Ichibon and I've taken a liking to that too.

First time I had it, I thought it tasted like dragon piss and thats still what I call it even though I like it.
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Thanks for reminding me. I never drink them unless I am eating bait, but Kirin and Sopporo, however it is spelled, are awesome Japanese beers.
 
My new favorite beer is Erdinger Hefe-Weizen. $10 a six pack but worth it. Have been disappointed with most of the microbrews I've tried.

Oh, but we were talking about which RAT is best for knifefighting, right?

As has been stated before, the RAT series is not designed as a fighter and it is far preferable to have a small work knife taken into evidence and presented to a jury than a dedicated fighting knife like "The Murderizer".

I've handled the RAT 3. It is a good, sturdy, sharp, wide knife that feels good in the hand and has multiple carry options. For a fighter, I'd prefer it to my Sharpfinger. I think you could probably cut your way out of an airplane fuselage with a RAT 3. It is a great choice for EDC, and if you need to use it on an attacker I'm sure it would work well. EDCing a 6" blade and having it shown to a jury is less preferable, IMHO.
 
XMP said:
I think the soon to come clip points, expecially the RC4 in my way of thinking, will be great for outdoors and a decent emergency fighting knife. If I had to fight with a Rat that would be the direction I'd lean.
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what are the soon-to-come clip points? what is soon and are there any pics of them? I am looking at an rc4, yet if the rc4 might be available in clip point soon, I might wait to see it. would the clip point be available at Blade?
 
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deltablade said:
what are the soon-to-come clip points? what is soon and are there any pics of them? I am looking at an rc4, yet if the rc4 might be available in clip point soon, I might wait to see it. would the clip point be available at Blade?
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Stop by the RAT booth at blade and Jeff should have samples and he could give you an idea of when they'll be available.:thumbup:
 
From knife fighting to alcohol...could there be a connection???

Yes! Look at the police blotters and see how many alteractions are booze related!! :)

Sam Adams for me! And...I'm looking at the BRKT Mountain Man Dagger at the moment...
 
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I thought the RC4 was a mean looking little cuss too...easy to carry also...so your more likely to have it when ya need it!
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Read the original post again -- he specifically mentions the RATs as primarily survival and wants to know which of them is best for fighting as well.

You can conceal the Garm or even larger knives until you need to use them. At that point, saying you were up against the wall and fell back on an old work knife beats showing off your classic assassin's weapon. :)
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i dont fully understand the point your trying to make but i think i might not have given the full impression of my stance on this subject. double edged blades have been used in some cultures for utility and survival one edge used for utility and the other for finer work. some kayakers and mountain climber prefer double edged blades because no matter how they grab the knife they can cut themselves free with it

I Carry an ontario RAT-3 (forgive me i bought it before there even was a rat cutlery) or an RC-4 in my pocket and i dont carry it for stabbing people, but for self defense i carry a gun.

i think knives are excellent weapons for killing people AND i think they are the best tool ever created by man. theres a reason that every civilization has developed different sorts of blade.... because they work for their intended purpose cutin and pokin stuff.

I think the definitive survival knife is a drop point blade between 3-8 inches with full tang construction and a blade coating or finish to make it resistant to rust preferably a flat grind but saber works as well. possibly this blad emay have a sawback design.

the definitive knife for fighting or better yet killing (because lets face it if you find yourself in a fight you planned it wrong) is a double edged dagger with a blade of over 3 inches prefferably an integral gaurd on the larger knives and no gaurd on the smaller making it easier to conceal, i consider the gerber mark 2 to be about the epitome of fighting knife design but its to thick and thin to make it decent at other tasks.

EITHER WILL WORK FOR EITHER. you can carve with a dagger and you can fight with a sawback its just the knives are optimized for different things.
personally id perfer a survival knife because a survival knife would imho work just fine at fighting as well while a dagger would be ay less optimal at feildcraf uness it was thinner stock and had a wider blade than most knives. the mountain mans dagger by BRK is a prime example.

the garm however would no doubt of use in many situatons from survivin to fighting so i suggested that the op uy one for all his self defense needs and wait for the great and migtty HEST to come out.
 
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