Reasons to join the ABS

Status
Not open for further replies.
I never could come up with even one good reason to join. :)
I'm not saying don't join though,... just that you won't find a good solid reason for it...

The purpose of the ABS is to promote and preserve the art of the hand forged knife in its highest degree of excellence.
Click to expand...

Let me fix that statement: "The purpose of the ABS is to promote and preserve the ABS."

You can't honestly believe that the forged blade would disappear off the face of the planet without the ABS, or that all the bladesmiths in the world are better off because of the ABS... that's ridicules!

One thing I've noticed is that if don’t join and you say anything that is less than 100% pro ABS, you are viewed as anti-ABS,… an ABS basher with some kind of demon or grudge against the ABS. This just can’t be true in all cases…
 
Last edited:
Are bad reasons good enough to join:). I thought you're an exclusive lifetime honorary member:D.

Merry Christmas, Craig
 
Tai Goo said:
...One thing I've noticed is that if don’t join and you say anything that is less than 100% pro ABS, you are viewed as anti-ABS,… an ABS basher with some kind of demon or grudge against the ABS. This just can’t be true in all cases…
Click to expand...

How about something at least .01% positive about the ABS?;)

I would agree that it isn't true, but what I would say is that if a person simply cannot let a single conversation about the ABS go by without having to make negative commentary with no objective positives (nothing is completely bad with no positives), it is hard to say that they are not "anti", "bashers" or at least have an axe to grind.

I see threads, opinions and even some "facts", that I strongly disagree with all the time, yet there are many I just leave alone because I have nothing positive to add and the negativity will benefit nobody, but most of all it is no sweat off my back if I don't have any personal hangups driving me to it.

It is a condition that was best described by the bard himself with "The lady doth protest too much, methinks!"
 
I don't think I said anything negative, it just wasn't positive. Which is really my point,... even neutral is considered negative if you are an "outsider". I'm just being honest about it.

Pros AND cons were asked for though... See what I mean?

I did join as an associate in 2004, and they listed me as a member through 2007, or 2008? The reason I joined was because I was tired of friends in the group twisting my arm to join,... which looking back really wasn't a very good reason for it. :)
 
Tai,
I know that you are not an ABS fan (that is a bit of an understatement). I respect and admire your abilities, and also respect that you are entitled to your point of view.

But for a rational discussion and debate:
The ABS is not there only to promote itself. If that were so, membership would be required to attend their functions and events. Its website is open to all who wish to enter, no log-in required. Its members, many of whom are on this forum, freely and gladly share information, training, and materials, with non-members. The very fact that joining the ABS is rarely (if ever) mentioned in the "How do I get started making knives" advice is also pretty telling of the non-self interest of ABS members.

In response to the statement about bladesmithing disappearing or the greater nobility of all bladesmiths due to the ABS - No one has stated such that I am aware of (although the detractors cite it regularly).
It is a fact that at the time of the formation of the ABS there were very few full time hand forged makers left. It is true that there are many more now. The ones today are not all the direct result of the ABS, but I believe most makers have benefited in some way by the efforts of the ABS to pass on information.


I have been an ABS member for a good while. I have never taken a test. Someday I might, but it will be more for my personal fun than recognition from the ABS. I know I can make a knife that will pass (and have made many). I don't personally feel that the tests will produce a perfect knife. They will show that you have the ability to make a knife to specific HT and performance. I have had the ABS big boys, including Bill Moran, comment and critique on my knives.That was nice, but not worth any more than the comments and critiques of my other knife friends.I think of myself as a knife maker, not an ABS member (In fact I rarely mention it). I have never told anyone that they needed to join the ABS, but,I have often recommended attending ABS teaching events as good starting places to find out more on knife making.
I have never been accused of being anti-ABS or a basher because I don't push the ABS, or agree with all their policies and procedures.

Stacy
 
Merry Christmas Kevin! :)
My Dad gave me a ukulele...

The way I see it, I've done as much to promote the forged blade as the next guy, and so have a lot of other "outsiders". It's nice to know the ABS is out there promoting us... NOT! LOL :D

... I do tease the "insiders" a lot,... don't I? hee hee hee

Merry Christmas! :)
 
Tai Goo said:
You can't honestly believe that the forged blade would disappear off the face of the planet without the ABS, or that all the bladesmiths in the world are better off because of the ABS.
Click to expand...

I certainly would not say that. I was forging blades before I knew anything about the ABS.

I would say that in the past few years I have grown as a bladesmith because of my perception of the dynamics between some individuals and the ABS.

At times those dynamics have turned me off. That too has pushed me on to greater works.

I dont understand the point behind the statement that ABS members share so much info. Do non ABS knife makers refuse to share info? Of course not.

Yes the ABS promotes the ABS. It is a group and that is what groups do.

I dont think my personal opinions would mesh well with the ABS as a group.
That may be the best reason to join. Group is a keyword here. I like all the individual ABS guys I have met.

Maybe if more people who think that, the ABS did not truly support ALL bladesmiths, were to join the ABS they could make a positive influence on the future of the ABS. The ABS affects me. Maybe I should affect the ABS.

Thanks again guys.
 
steelshaper said:
I certainly would not say that. I was forging blades before I knew anything about the ABS.

I would say that in the past few years I have grown as a bladesmith because of my perception of the dynamics between some individuals and the ABS.

At times those dynamics have turned me off. That too has pushed me on to greater works.

I dont understand the point behind the statement that ABS members share so much info. Do non ABS knife makers refuse to share info? Of course not.

Yes the ABS promotes the ABS. It is a group and that is what groups do.

I dont think my personal opinions would mesh well with the ABS as a group.
That may be the best reason to join. Group is a keyword here. I like all the individual ABS guys I have met.

Maybe if more people who think that, the ABS did not truly support ALL bladesmiths, were to join the ABS they could make a positive influence on the future of the ABS. The ABS affects me. Maybe I should affect the ABS.

Thanks again guys.
Click to expand...
I think that prior to the ABS coming into being, people were generally not sharing all that much. Part of that may have been that there was no place to go to share. But I will say this. IMO, the ABS set the tone and nowadays, some might argue that knifemakers share to their detriment because they are training their competition:D I would agree somewhat with Tai that the art of the forge blade would not have died but for the ABS, but howmany of us would have been willing or able to apprentice in some shack in the middle of an orange grove in Orlando or a hut in the Phiilipines?;)
 
I think we would have all been much better off without the ABS. The craft of bladesmithing could have taken a more natural course without all the extra politics, fabricated smith ranking, and standardized blade testing nonsense. I really can't see how or why any self respecting bladesmith would stoop soooooo low.

Of course there are more professional bladesmiths, smiths in general and sharing information than there was 30 years ago. There's more everything now,... more people! The internet! I don't really think the ABS deserves that much credit.

The only good thing about the group is that there are some very fine individual smiths in it,... but I give them the credit, not the organization!

If anything,... I think the nonsense and pretentiousness of the organization takes away from the smiths who have gone through the testing and ranking program... it's more of a demotion than promotion.

I have a certain special respect for the smiths who have stayed out of it and blazed their own trail....
 
Tai Goo said:
Merry Christmas Kevin! :)
My Dad gave me a ukulele...

...:)
Click to expand...
A ukulele, that is one cool yet under-appreciated instrument (perhaps Tiny Tim didn't do it any favors;)). Despite not hearing much about them I am certain there has to be varying levels of craftsmanship and quality in their manufacture as with anything. Is there a Stradivarius of ukulele's?
 
Yeah Kevin, there is a sort of Stradivarius of ukuleles. It's the Martin 5K (for five thousand dollars). http://folk-instruments.musiciansfriend.com/product/Martin-5K-Ukulele?sku=513305

Ukulele means "jumping flea". I've been having a blast with mine. It's a sweet quality Lanikai tenor with curly koa wood. My Dad plays too, so we've been jamming. He took ukulele in Hawaii when he was in high school, for years. When he went to college on the main land, they wouldn't accept the credits... Figures huh? Don't get me started on educational institutions! :)

But, you are right, a very cool and versatile instrument... a true instrument! Although I don't think Tiny Tim did it any favors either.... It was actually a very popular instrument with the cowboys in these parts, back in the day. They could carry them around easily with them at all times. :)

uke_cowboy.jpg
 
Last edited:
I’ve been thinking about starting the “American Ukulele Musicians Society”. :D

Each member will be required to perform Tiny Tim’s rendition of “Tiptoe Through the Tulips”, in full costume before a panel of experts,… but only after a two year waiting period... If they pass they will get the rank of "Master Ukuleleist", a little gold plated ukulele pendant to hang around their necks and a bright red Hawaiian print shirt with an orchid motif. :)
 
Last edited:
AUMS, do it Tai, but a quick word of caution, there'll be naysayers. Stay the course, and maintain the full costume. Reject accusations of stooping to new lows, and turn to the guru TT for inspiration.:D

Koolaide and party poppers for all, happy New Year, Craig
 
Besides being terribly indecisive I am extremely independent. Heck that’s why I am a knife maker any way. I guess there’s no rush. I will just keep looking into it.

It may seem silly to some of you guys that I would have such a hard time deciding but that’s the way I am. If I am going to be a paying member of an organization I have to fully indorse that organization. At the same time I will probably not really know till I try it out.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to give their thought and opinions.
 
AUMS, do it Tai, but a quick word of caution, there'll be naysayers. Stay the course, and maintain the full costume. Reject accusations of stooping to new lows, and turn to the guru TT for inspiration.
Click to expand...

Screw the naysayers, if they don't get it!

Hey! It's not that easy...

Make checks payable to the AUMS,... care of Tiny Tai Goo, MU. :D
 
OK,

I was confused about ABS and now I understand better thanks to Tai. Sorry Kevin but in my opinion, after reading old threads then reviewing the ABS page there does seem to be a problem.

I am involved in many areas of arts and craftsmanship and forging is my most recent endeavor.

I looked at the ABS page and noticed several things that bothered me. The page in itself offers little with regards to guidance and instruction (posted papers, methods etc...).

The dues for an apprentice is higher than a collector based on the assumption that the individual will seek a certificate.

In the violin making world the only country that requires this kind of rigid format for certification is Germany. Though an archaic system, it allows for outside apprenticeship then a review of the quality of craftsmanship via a board examination of knowledge and an examination of stringed instruments.

In the rest of the world there are an enormous number of self taught makers that are highly respected.

ABS has a school and the instructors are well known. Though I have eight years of post graduate training I don’t believe in “schools” as a method of learning for all individuals. The requirement that one attends the ABS school is self promotion and ethically questionable. The tests are not based on a true skill level rather a small component of quality blade treatment.

I had the belief after reading Kevin’s note that the ABS was similar to other societies that share information more readily. See the NAWCC (watch and clock collectors) page for an organization that does what I expected the ABS would do.

My method of learning is first based on self education, practice and one on one interaction for specific topics and approaches. I know I learned more in four days with Tai Goo than I could in months of “classes”. I plan on visiting and learning from bladesmiths and general blacksmiths in the coming years while I continue to learn and practice this field. I also will return to Tai’s place pretty soon since he’s a natural teacher and has a high level of intuition and knowledge about the field.

Right now the ABS seems focused on the “tests” and I think that is a big mistake.
 
deloid said:
ABS has a school and the instructors are well known. Though I have eight years of post graduate training I don’t believe in “schools” as a method of learning for all individuals. The requirement that one attends the ABS school is self promotion and ethically questionable. The tests are not based on a true skill level rather a small component of quality blade treatment.
Click to expand...

There is no "requirement" to attend the ABS school. If you attend the 2 week intro to bladesmithing course, they knock a year off of the time you have to wait to apply for your JS stamp. Hardly coercive.

I do agree with you that the tests need some reforming and revising.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top