Reasons to join the ABS

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I don’t see how they can revise the “Tiptoe Through the Tulips” test,… it wouldn’t be fair to everyone who’ve already submitted to it.

At any rate, I guess it’s not our job to try and fix it, and even if it was,… I doubt we could.

Too bad it creates so much confusion within the larger more universal community of bladesmiths….
 
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I'm neither pro ABS or anti ABS. It is what it is :)

Whether you like it or not, the ABS as done a great deal to draw attention to the forged blade. We all benefit from this!!! :)

I have never been to an ABS hammer-in or the school. I did do the two test knives but the five knives for each stamp were my own and I do my own thing now as always.

One can be a member and still be considered an "outsider" ;) Or one can join and get right in the middle. The level of participation is up to the individual........

The ABS doesn't really care if I or anyone joinins or not.
I probably wouldn't be missed if I quit paying my dues :D
 
There is no "requirement" to attend the ABS school. If you attend the 2 week intro to bladesmithing course, they knock a year off of the time you have to wait to apply for your JS stamp. Hardly coercive.

I do agree with you that the tests need some reforming and revising.

I did miss the fact that it simply knocks a year off but please explain two things:
Why the double fee for someone who wants to take the test? In other words what do they get for that extra thirty dollars per year?
Why the waiting time?
In both, it appears that income is the priority.
 
I probably wouldn't be missed if I quit paying my dues :D


Naw,... they won't let YOU quit Don! Even if you turn in your MS stamp and quit paying your dues. It's a done deal! There's no salvation for you man! It's history now! LOL :D

... let the records show!
30214_Tiny-Tim.jpg
 
Tia, I might get a reminder that my $$ was late but that's about it :)

deloid, I guess it cost a little to run someone through the tests. The person who does all the paper work is a paid employee and the two stamps cost money. I don't know the why of the wait time but I see nothing wrong with it.

If one wants to join, then join. If ya don't want to, then don't... It's pretty easy :D
 
Tia, I do have trouble fitting in. Been trying out the Knifemaker's Guild for a few years and they don't seem to want me either :D

I do love to joke around but the quote below is very true!

Whether you like it or not, the ABS as done a great deal to draw attention to the forged blade. We all benefit from this!!!
 
.. just playing with you Don, because I know you're alright!

Neutral is really the coolest way to be,... it pisses both extremes off. Good for you!

Right on!

The only thing I want to drive at is,... if you are neutral, how do you do it?
Herein lies the key to true wisdom and mastery... effortless effort!

Hats off to you brother! :)
 
Deloid, I don't think you read the site. There are different categories, but it's all the same price. There's a separate cheaper membership for non makers, maybe they're enouraging a market for their members.

They also simply explain the wait time. I don't think they're trying to trap anyone into anything. As mentioned before it is what it is, but I came back for a bit to wonder why so much is being read into simple mission statements.

Happy New Year, Craig
 
In my opinion,... Don Hanson 3 is a true "master",... but Kevin and Stacy still have a little ways to go, before I'm convinced... :D
 
Tai, I aint no better than anyone else :o and am not a master, yet :D

steelshaper, I don't use the stamps. But have marked 2 blades MS for good friends......

But I see no problem being neutral and using the stamp.
I just personally don't feel the need or desire to put MS on my blades.
 
Well, I guess I'll have to kick my work up a notch to earn the "ATG" stamp (Approved by Tai Goo). :eek:
If I get a big rock and a small rock, and a piece of rebar........yeah, it is all coming together in my head now.:thumbup:;)

Tai, I understand where you are coming from, but feel you have a skewed picture of the ABS. Perhaps it is because the mainstream is not where you swim ( heck, most of the time it isn't even downstream). I have always felt that looking at something from across a barricade somewhat taints the opinion of what is seen. I have attended Buddhist, Muslim, Catholic, and other religions services. Not because I wanted to join, but to learn more about them. I have been a member of an all black society (Or it was, until I was recruited as the Chaplain). I didn't participate to become an African American, but because I had some of the same youth education goals as they did. (I haven't been tempted to find out about gay people first hand, but feel that I can see their perspective well enough from my side of the fence).

Seriously, this is all in debate to me. I care not whether someone joins the ABS or not....or if the approve of the ABS or not. And just like you, I care not if they approve of me or my opinions, either (OK, we probably both care a bit). We are all different animals, some form a herd, and some go out on their own. It is the differences that highlight the uniqueness of some over others.

Stacy
 
LOL :D

Tiptoe through the window
By the window, that is where I'll be
Come tiptoe through the tulips with me

Oh, tiptoe from the garden
By the garden of the willow tree
And tiptoe through the tulips with me

Knee deep in flowers we'll stray
We'll keep the showers away
And if I kiss you in the garden, in the moonlight
Will you pardon me?
And tiptoe through the tulips with me
 
I'm a pretty independent person that has never felt the need to "join the crowd."

I'm 30 years old, and I have NEVER smoked a cigarette, done any drugs, and drink maybe once every 3 years. Because peer pressure meant jack squat to me. I couldn't care less if others wanted me to do something that I didn't feel was "me."

That being said, I joined the ABS and have been a proud member for the last 7 years.

It gives me satisfaction to be part of a group that is so much more as a whole than I can ever be alone. It is a collection of some of the best bladesmiths in the country, and you will be warmly welcomed and information is readily shared.

I cannot understand why you feel you would have to do anything that goes against your principles/ideals in order to join the ABS. It is often inaccurately viewed as a "good 'ol boys club" full of southern makers, but the truth is that it's a very diverse group with makers from all over the world making a great variety of work.

One of my Js test knives was clay hardened with a pretty close simulation of a traditional Japanese polish. Some folks told me not to even use that knife, as the ABS would say stuff like "This isn't the Japanese bladesmith society" and that they wouldn't like the fancy blade polish, etc. That sure seemed odd after I was awarded the George Peck award for the knife. I got a ton of compliments from the judges on what I had done with the blade, noting that it required some pretty thorough understanding of my heat treating methods, as well as finishing/polishing.

I hope to earn my Ms rating, but I don't view that as any sort of "be all/end all." I think it's simply proof that you could make the work that would earn the rating. Just like earning a degree in college... if YOU do not personally set out to improve, then having a rating won't mean anything about success.

I dont think a stamp is going to gain you much recognition. That will come from making excellent knives and treating your customers and fellow makers well.

Working toward a stamp WILL make you look at your work in a whole new light and work even harder to make it clean than you already are.

There are shining examples of successful smiths that are not part of the ABS ranked smiths, like Tai Goo and Tim Zowada.

As for Tai and this thread... staying neutral is one thing. Saying stuff like you can't think of a worse thing for a bladesmith to do as to stoop to such low levels, and that the ABS is one of the worst things to come along for smiths... Well, that is plain and simple NOT NEUTRAL, AND FLAT OUT NEGATIVE.

A true neutral standpoint would be one of apathy, one in which you didn't care enough to take the time to post one way or another.

I HIGHLY recommend you go to a hammer-in and see for yourself, straight up, what ABS smiths are like and all about. :)
 
Excuse me for being mildly irritated, but did some of my posts get edited on some folks computers? Where the hell did I present myself as a propagandist or even a proponent for the ABS? My posts were in support of people educating themselves in an objective fashion about the group instead of forming opinions for it or against it based upon the ravings of ABS kool-aide drinkers or people with axes to grind, and I can assure you that I am neither.

Please point out anybody who has railed against the ridiculous premise of bending a blade 90 degrees, while giving factual explanations as to why, more than I have (indeed I come close to actually having a axe to grind here;)). In both my religion and in my politics (neither of which I will share for the obvious reasons) I find myself in a similar situation of always educating prejudiced outsiders about the real problems as seen from the inside instead of invented, ridiculous slanders outsiders come up in lieu of doing a little research. I like criticism of any group in order to keep them in line and moving in the right direction, but it needs to be based upon something of a little more substance than innuendo, slanderous opinion or total misrepresentation. The first is constructive, the other is merely a propaganda tool to perpetuate prejudices which cannot be based upon actual issues lest it lose its power should they ever actually be fixed.

I have felt wounded and slighted by the group myself in the past. The group had some serious growing pains when it couldn't seem to decide if it was a fan club for certain makers or some exclusive regional good old boys club, misinterpretation of the testing has done more damage than good to heat treating of blades... etc. I have been a member of the ABS for at least 16 years and if you would like to talk about some real problems and issues with the group I can do that, I am not sure what the point would be and the only ones I would care to debate it with are folks who also have a real understanding of it from the inside. I personally don't see the point in arguing the details of group with folks who have never really been involved with it, I have my own horror stories why do I need assumptions?:confused:

I have very good friends who have no qualms about saying they are "anti-ABS", I leave them to their grudges while gently reminding them that while I share many of their criticisms the last contact they had with the group was many years ago and things do change. There is this little thing called "redemption", without it there is little hope for any of us, and if we never allow people or groups the opportunity to make themselves better, our unmoving condemnation becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

If I sound "pro-ABS" let me tell you how one of the groups most fervent critics decided to give them a chance to be a force for good in our community. In all my years spent on the soapbox slaying myths and taking hype, myth and hooey to task, I have ruffled my share of feathers. For simply pointing out facts, I have been called names and made my share of enemies, and yet even though the one group's teachings that has come into the line of fire of my diatribes the most is the ABS, the ABS is the one group that eventually responded the way they did. Instead of attacking me, trying to shut me down or silence me, they gave me a platform! They listened to what I had to say despite the fact it refuted much of what had been embraced for so long. Instead of throwing me out, they put me to work! Thats the real way to teach me to keep my mouth shut! :o Just imagine if every group in America embraced the ideals of the 1st amendment to the level I just described?

I do not strive to be neutral, as it seems to be synonymous with apathetic in this instance. I do believe I am objective, and think that if you have enough emotional investment to actively criticize something at its every mention, then it should be worth your while to get involved to make some changes or simply let it go and free your life from its negative burden. For years I sat up North in Michigan and bitched about the ABS its regional politics and misinformation. I had been told that if I wasn't one of the good old boys I would never be heard, and I believed it until one day I had the novel idea of simply asking how I could help.

Join the ABS and be toady of the highest magnitude, or wash your hands of the group and hold it in contempt for the rest of your days, but either way you owe it to yourself, the group, and all those who you would share your views with, to get some current first hand knowledge of it and make up your own mind.
 
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