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removed from Concerns About Surviv Business and Misleading Lead Tlme

Every day they ship knives is a good day. Less backlog, fewer refunds, happier customers. Speaking for myself.......I received a shipping notice yesterday......I feel better.
 
NYOutdoors said:
I don't buy the thinly veiled attempt to excuse it by categorizing him as an impulsive 19-year-old. I was a 19-year-old kid at one time also, and I certainly never had even one fleeting "impulsive" thought of breaking into a hardware store and stealing merchandise.
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Well good for you.

The measure of a man isn't whether or not he's ever made a mistake —*it's whether he's atoned and moved on to nobler deeds.

But hey, feel free to reduce a person's totality to a single action, if that's what floats your boat.
 
jbmonkey said:
so your saying maybe the survive guy is mentally ill?:):) kidding, kidding....

it was a good point for all of us to remember under the old system of the local sheriff took ya to your dad and gave you a second chance outside of the system. in todays world of zero tolerance no one gets that second chance outside of the system much if at all anymore. many of us might have criminal records if we didn't get that local sheriff second chance.

too bad it came to all this. good honest communication is worth it's weight in gold.
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Well played Sir, touché :thumbup:

Honestly I was afraid that after reading my post, some would misconstrue that Guy was indeed my nephew ;)
 
jbmonkey said:
so your saying maybe the survive guy is mentally ill?:):) kidding, kidding....
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Statistically, a pretty significant cross-section of the forum population probably has some mental characteristics that fit the DSM definitions for one pathology or another – mental health issues are a hell of a lot more prevalent than we're socially conditioned to believe they are.

Either way, (and I'm agreeing with your point here, JBMonkey) it ain't anybody's business, and has no relevance in this discussion — much like the 'outing' of Guy's prior conviction. It's a bunch of disrespectful and invasive dirt-digging, as far as I'm concerned, and it's not a good look on those participating in the character assassination.

I've got my own critiques of Survive!, the company, and I've been pretty vocal about those, but stooping to going through someone's proverbial trash to wreck someone's personal reputation on top of their professional one, is just ugly, petty business.
 
There are VERY real issues with Survive!. IMHO Ellie's post does not address many of the concerns and is full of problematic statements that contradict things she has said in the past.

I am obviously not a fan of how S!K is running their business, but I am also not a fan of witch hunts. That is what this smells like to me. Guy's record and subsequent financial issues from over 10 years ago have, at best, only the very slightest relevance to what is going on at S!K right now. People make mistakes, pay their debt to society and (hopefully) move forward. To Guy's credit, he has never not filled an order, and is still trying to make this right.

Again, I stand by EVERYTHING I have said about S!K. I believe that their business is not sustainable as it is being run. However, Guy's past is not the reason for these issues.
 
All the fluff in this thread is getting silly. Look, people haven't been getting their refunds in a timely manner, and the response is that S!K is holding them in case they change their minds? Seriously, that's not S!K's call to make. If someone requests a refund, you give it. End of story. In all these threads I continue to see little bad decisions get made consistently and then excuses with long term down the road solutions that won't help them now. They need to Stop taking new orders until they are further caught up. They must Reestablish that they are a trustworthy company to do business with. The product is great, no question, but all of these bad little decisions, especially around communication, will be their undoing. A healthy business is proactive, but all we are seeing is a reactive model, hence Ellie's last minute responses to week old problems.
 
ncrockclimb said:
There are VERY real issues with Survive!. IMHO Ellie's post does not address many of the concerns and is full of problematic statements that contradict things she has said in the past.

I am obviously not a fan of how S!K is running their business, but I am also not a fan of witch hunts. That is what this smells like to me. Guy's record and subsequent financial issues from over 10 years ago have, at best, only the very slightest relevance to what is going on at S!K right now. People make mistakes, pay their debt to society and (hopefully) move forward. To Guy's credit, he has never not filled an order, and is still trying to make this right.

Again, I stand by EVERYTHING I have said about S!K. I believe that their business is not sustainable as it is being run. However, Guy's past is not the reason for these issues.
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:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
OK, so to summarize - the whacky OP is now banned, Survive has come here to address things from their perspective, Hopefully those wanting a refund will get taken care of (or Survive loses their credibility yet again), some people care about a person's past - while others do not.

Did I miss anything? Hard to read through six pages.
 
Gastonknife said:
OK, so to summarize - the whacky OP is now banned, Survive has come here to address things from their perspective, Hopefully those wanting a refund will get taken care of (or Survive loses their credibility yet again), some people care about a person's past - while others do not.

Did I miss anything? Hard to read through six pages.
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That about sums it up, yeah.
 
If I went for a job interview today, and hypothetically speaking the interviewer found out some of the things I did and said when I was 19/20 years old, the company would probably choose some other candidate for the position other than me.
Would those silly things that I did back then be a good measure as to how I would perform this new job?? Most definitely not!!
Do those stupid things that I did have any bearing/influence whatsoever as to how I function in my current job??? Absolutely not!!!

Just saying.....
 
I'm no fan of Guy or Survive but I think it's pretty cold to bring up dirt from 16+ years ago. Whatever Guy's circumstances at the time I would hope that he would be allowed to get over it. Otherwise we are all only as good as the worst thing we've done.
 
Geesh. This has gotten ugly. I remember when Survive Knives hit the "scene". Almost pulled the trigger. Now I'm glad I didn't. Refunds in less than a month hardly a disaster? If I was paycheck to paycheck with this hobby (and I once was) I would be upset. Refunds should be issued far more quickly in any business. Especially in light of failed deliveries. Trust is priceless.
 
ElConquistador said:
I'm no fan of Guy or Survive but I think it's pretty cold to bring up dirt from 16+ years ago. Whatever Guy's circumstances at the time I would hope that he would be allowed to get over it. Otherwise we are all only as good as the worst thing we've done.
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This !!!
 
Everyone has skeletons in the closet. I have some friends that are felons and they are some of the nicest and most willing to help you people I know. We all make mistakes and learn from those mistakes. That's part of being human and part of what makes each person the man or woman they are today. I don't think that's reason to hate on someone. SURVIVE! Seems to be learning from their past ways of doing business and are slowly making some changes. I hope they get things figured out and thrive. If you need your refund so bad that you cant wait a few weeks, then you probably shouldn't have spent money on a product that didn't exist yet. A few hundred or even a thousand dollars, really isn't that much money in the grand scheme of things. There is ALWAYS a risk with crowd funded projects. The waiting sucks, the missed deadlines suck, and the not knowing sucks, but that's all part of the game. If you don't like it, buy a Becker or an Ontario or any of the other perfectly useable knives they sell at your local outdoor store.
 
SURVIVE! Ellie said:
Yes, 17 years ago Guy was an impulsive 19-year-old who made a mistake. Afterward, he was upfront and honest about what he had done and served his time without incident. Since then he has been an upstanding citizen and has done nothing to get himself in any sort of trouble again. Here is a letter of recommendation from the person he wronged.

View attachment 671377

As far as the bankruptcy, he was still a young man trying to find his way in the world, which was especially difficult with his past. He ran up a bit too much in credit card debt and was advised that filing bankruptcy was his best option (Even the new president elect has a few bankruptcies filed). Guy did learn from his experiences. He brought in a business partner to help manage the finances. That partner focused more on sales rather than production, so he was removed from the company. Now I manage the finances, though Guy does still have the final say over business decisions.

We have been assured multiple times by banks that his past would not be a problem and that they would definitely be able to help us with growth financing. It was confusing when we kept getting denied despite good numbers and an excellent credit score. Finally, we received a letter saying that it is against their company policy to lend to felons or businesses who are owned by felons. We are also disqualified from SBA lending for the same reason, they love business who hire felons but apparently not businesses owned by one.

Despite all of that, we are still here and we are still delivering product. We have missed deadlines, but we are getting better. The last of the GSO-4.7 Preorders are being boxed up now and remaining models should go much more quickly. We have never failed to deliver an order and we have every intention of delivering every order that has been placed with us.
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How about 4.7 pre-SALES from 2015?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Angry Hippie said:
Everyone has skeletons in the closet. I have some friends that are felons and they are some of the nicest and most willing to help you people I know. We all make mistakes and learn from those mistakes. That's part of being human and part of what makes each person the man or woman they are today. I don't think that's reason to hate on someone. SURVIVE! Seems to be learning from their past ways of doing business and are slowly making some changes. I hope they get things figured out and thrive. If you need your refund so bad that you cant wait a few weeks, then you probably shouldn't have spent money on a product that didn't exist yet. A few hundred or even a thousand dollars, really isn't that much money in the grand scheme of things. There is ALWAYS a risk with crowd funded projects. The waiting sucks, the missed deadlines suck, and the not knowing sucks, but that's all part of the game. If you don't like it, buy a Becker or an Ontario or any of the other perfectly useable knives they sell at your local outdoor store.
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No one cares about a banned troll, or some past dirt, Its all a distraction. Seen this play out dozens of times when it comes to Survive!. You get some bomb throwers in that cause a distraction, conversation conveniently pivots, and suddenly Survive are back to being victims again. When it comes to Survive! I have seen more straw men then a burning man bonfire. So now we are back to if you "need" your refund or "need" your knife then stop whining and go deal with Becker knife? That's the wrong answer. Good business practice and basic consumer rights don't disappear based on company size. Trolls and bomb throwers and white knights don't change reality, they just change the subject.

BTW, Still haven't received my refund and it's been almost two weeks, and now two times past when I was told. Respectfully, don't care about Guy's history, Ellie's Label maker, or your uncle's friend's personal Life Drama story, I just want my money and knife.
 
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tiogatires said:
Geesh. This has gotten ugly. I remember when Survive Knives hit the "scene". Almost pulled the trigger. Now I'm glad I didn't. Refunds in less than a month hardly a disaster? If I was paycheck to paycheck with this hobby (and I once was) I would be upset. Refunds should be issued far more quickly in any business. Especially in light of failed deliveries. Trust is priceless.
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If you get a refund, it is not a disaster. The disaster comes when insolvency is reached, & no-one gets anything.

If S!K were a bank, 2 weeks would be a disaster.
They are a knife manufacturer, who makes customers wait months, or years, for a knife. Receiving refunds in less than a month seems OK to me. People living payday to payday shouldn't have fallen for such a business plan.
 
Refunds in less than a month ok? I'm still baffled by this. And no need to explain the game, I'm a vetted pro (its that experience that kept me from falling for "such a business plan". Keep in mind, that from what I'm reading here is that these people have been waiting long enough. Once a refund is requested it should be processed in a timely manner. A month is not timely.... period. Sounds to me like this outfit is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Bear in mind, I don't have any interest in SK, BUT I do have interest in my fellow BF members getting screwed no matter the vehicle in which they are done so. This whole situation bears enough merit to be investigated.

All that being said, it's a shame since I really like their designs and their knives seem to review very well. Just my two cents.
 
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