removed from Concerns About Surviv Business and Misleading Lead Tlme

[mlmcasual]

Well, this is too much.

I've purchased a few knives from S! in the past and while I've since sold them all off, I was perfectly happy with even the very early versions with the heavy stonewash finish (I actually preferred those).

That all being said, I have one knife on order from them and I've sent a refund request. Hopefully it is handled in short order. I've tried to ignore the swirling rumor mill, but it does appear that the company is indeed more than just a tad "in over their head." Like many others, I'm not trying to see my money sink with the company.

I will say - the prior bankruptcy claim and especially the burglary conviction have left a bad taste in my mouth. I won't financially support someone who would commit such a crime.

Holy CRAP!! I was not aware of the owner of Survive Plead guilty to burglary and also did bankruptcy.

 

[NCCNC]

Looks like they are about to get a TON more refund requests. I wonder if there is any money left to fulfill them. Best wishes to those of you who are out on a limb... financially speaking.

Shipping labels. Lol

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[NYOutdoors]

Looks like they are about to get a TON more refund requests. I wonder if there is any money left to fulfill them. Best wishes to those of you who are out on a limb... financially speaking.

Shipping labels. Lol

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I'm still within my PayPal 180 days luckily, so I'll get it one way or the other. I'm definitely hoping everything works out for those who ordered multiple knives in that "starter campaign" business where most, if not all, have yet to be delivered, and are well past the PayPal 180 days.

I think you're right about the incoming refund panic - I will say, I was definitely spooked by some of the revelations in this thread, and this is coming from a previously happy customer with no complaints.

 

[NCCNC]

I'm still within my PayPal 180 days luckily, so I'll get it one way or the other.

I think you're right about the incoming refund panic - I will say, I was definitely spooked by some of the revelations in this thread, and this is coming from a previously happy customer with no complaints.

I really just hope everyone who wants a refund gets one. I was left out to dry by a custom rifle maker a few years back for 3800.00 and it still stings to think about.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Casinostocks]

Well, this is too much.

I've purchased a few knives from S! in the past and while I've since sold them all off, I was perfectly happy with even the very early versions with the heavy stonewash finish (I actually preferred those).

That all being said, I have one knife on order from them and I've sent a refund request. Hopefully it is handled in short order. I've tried to ignore the swirling rumor mill, but it does appear that the company is indeed more than just a tad "in over their head." Like many others, I'm not trying to see my money sink with the company.

I will say - the prior bankruptcy claim and especially the burglary conviction have left a bad taste in my mouth. I won't financially support someone who would commit such a crime.

My nephew is mentally ill and has been diagnosed to be suffering from schizophrenia. A while back before the severity of his mental illness had come to full light, he had entered a house in his neighborhood which was unlocked and went through their refrigerator eating food and ice cream while the owner was at home! Luckily for him, the owner was not armed so his a** was not blasted off to pieces. Cutting a long story short, the nephew has now been incarcerated on/off for about 3 years so now the system owns his a** for what had started as break/entry (unlocked front door) and count 1 burglary (basically the statute on the books) which is very very sad despite all the support available to him by his very middle class family (there are families much more affluent which are also dealing with similar or graver situations). Yes, his immediate family is also at blame for ignoring and neglecting what in hind sight appear to be tell-tale signs. Moral of the story, if Guy was convicted of burglary, we have no idea regarding the circumstances and some are now just acting as holier-than-thou!

While it is absolutely your choice as to whom you decide to do business with based on the purported evidence against Guy or anyone like him, try to reach down in your repertoire to check on your empathy genes too because I am sure that you are unaware of the circumstances regarding Guy's troubles as I am. If Guy was indeed convicted of a crime and had also paid his debt to the society, his business and his actions vis a vis Survive! should be judged based upon how he runs that business and how he delivers, which admittedly does not look too well for him at the present time. We have many people in the business community, some currently highly respected, who have done pretty darn dumb things in their youth and their past. Here is what Survive! is faced with right now so Guy/Ellie the Principals ought to be judged on how they handle this crisis which can admittedly turn into a catastrophe and a total collapse. They ought to recognize that the daggers (no pun) are now out and some nefarious sorts on here already have started the metaphoric acts of sticking those inside!

 

[mlmcasual]

My nephew is mentally ill and has been diagnosed to be suffering from schizophrenia. A while back before the severity of his mental illness had come to full light, he had entered a house in his neighborhood which was unlocked and went through their refrigerator eating food and ice cream while the owner was at home! Luckily for him, the owner was not armed so his a** was not blasted off to pieces. Cutting a long story short, the nephew has now been incarcerated on/off for about 3 years so now the system owns his a** for what had started as burglary which is very very sad despite all the support available to him by his very middle class family (there are families much more affluent which are also dealing with similar or graver situations). Yes, his immediate family is also at blame for ignoring and neglecting what in hind sight appear to be tell-tale signs.

While it is absolutely your choice as to whom you decide to do business with based on the purported evidence against Guy or anyone like him, try to reach down in your repertoire to check on your empathy genes too because I am sure that you are unaware of the circumstances regarding Guy's troubles as I am. If Guy was indeed convicted of a crime and had also paid his debt to the society, his business and his actions vis a vis Survive! should be judged based upon how he runs that business and how he delivers, which admittedly does not look too well for him at the present time. We have many people in the business community, some currently highly respected, who have done pretty darn dumb things in their youth and their past. Here is what Survive! is faced with right now so Guy/Ellie the Principals ought to be judged on how they handle this crisis which can admittedly turn into a catastrophe and a total collapse. They ought to recognize that the daggers (no pun) are now out and some nefarious sorts on here already have started the metaphoric acts of sticking those inside!

All I got of that was I probably wouldn't want to do business with your Mentally Ill nephew either.
Everyone needs a 2nd chance, not a third forth, fith and sixth. Past behavior is a prediction of future behavior. If current behavior looks questionable, past behavior absolutely does become relevant.

 

[Casinostocks]

All I got of that was I probably wouldn't want to do business with your Mentally Ill nephew either.

I am not surprised that was your takeaway. No need to worry about doing business with him as he probably won't be around that long. Have a great day!

 

[NYOutdoors]

My nephew is mentally ill and has been diagnosed to be suffering from schizophrenia. A while back before the severity of his mental illness had come to full light, he had entered a house in his neighborhood which was unlocked and went through their refrigerator eating food and ice cream while the owner was at home! Luckily for him, the owner was not armed so his a** was not blasted off to pieces. Cutting a long story short, the nephew has now been incarcerated on/off for about 3 years so now the system owns his a** for what had started as burglary which is very very sad despite all the support available to him by his very middle class family (there are families much more affluent which are also dealing with similar or graver situations). Yes, his immediate family is also at blame for ignoring and neglecting what in hind sight appear to be tell-tale signs.

While it is absolutely your choice as to whom you decide to do business with based on the purported evidence against Guy or anyone like him, try to reach down in your repertoire to check on your empathy genes too because I am sure that you are unaware of the circumstances regarding Guy's troubles as I am. If Guy was indeed convicted of a crime and had also paid his debt to the society, his business and his actions vis a vis Survive! should be judged based upon how he runs that business and how he delivers, which admittedly does not look too well for him at the present time. We have many people in the business community, some currently highly respected, who have done pretty darn dumb things in their youth and their past. Here is what Survive! is faced with right now so Guy/Ellie the Principals ought to be judged on how they handle this crisis which can admittedly turn into a catastrophe and a total collapse. They ought to recognize that the daggers (no pun) are now out and some nefarious sorts on here already have started the metaphoric acts of sticking those inside!

How exactly does comparing the actions of your mentally ill nephew and a (as far as we know) mentally competent man make any sense? It's apples and oranges, my friend. With respect, that story, while interesting, has absolutely no bearing on the fact that the owner of this business has been convicted of burglary.

I choose not to support someone that I have just learned has a burglary conviction. Call me old-fashioned, but breaking into someone's property with intent to commit a crime therein is severely violating to the victim, and I would never spend a dime on a product offered by such a person. We aren't exactly talking about getting into a bar fight or smoking some weed, this is actual pre-meditated crime.

 

[Tim the Wizard]

I will say all evidence points to this thread being started in less than good faith. There is alot of thread blurring going on. The OP was banned and that particular piece of evidence appears false.

 

[mlmcasual]

I am not surprised that was your takeaway. No need to worry about doing business with him as he probably won't be around that long. Have a great day!

Sorry, Casinostocks I didn't mean to insult you or your family. But you are the one that put your nephew out as a straw man analogy to compare with Survive.

 

[Skystorm]

There has been no evidence provided by either side other than, literally, he said she said.

I will say all evidence points to this thread being started in less than good faith. There is alot of thread blurring going on. The OP was banned and that particular piece of evidence appears false.

 

[Casinostocks]

How exactly does comparing the actions of your mentally ill nephew and a (as far as we know) mentally competent man make any sense? It's apples and oranges, my friend. With respect, that story, while interesting, has absolutely no bearing on the fact that the owner of this business has been convicted of burglary.

I choose not to support someone that I have just learned has a burglary conviction. Call me old-fashioned, but breaking into someone's property with intent to commit a crime therein is severely violating to the victim, and I would never spend a dime on a product offered by such a person. We aren't exactly talking about getting into a bar fight or smoking some weed, this is actual pre-meditated crime.

There is a moral to every story. I don't know about Guy's past circumstances but I have learned having lived a longer life than most of you on here, to not jump into conclusions and judgement as fast as I would have perhaps about 20 years ago!

Just for disclosure purposes: I have no skin in the Survive! game but I absolutely understand the angst and the concern (that empathy gene runs both ways) of those with vested interests. I had 3 preorders on their books which I decided to cancel last July and I promptly received refunds for. I was in possession of about 4-5 various Survive! knives which I also decided to move along to other interested parties as I found another maker whose knives and business pace suited me better.

Again, I state that the burden is on Ellie/Guy and none of this past "dirt" would have come to light if they could or had the ability to have acted faster. That said, the now banned member who had started spreading false accusations and the Survive! inaction to address this type of thread at the outset has caused quite a bit of damage.

 

[Casinostocks]

Sorry, Casinostocks I didn't mean to insult you or your family. But you are the one that put your nephew out as a straw man analogy to compare with Survive.

Not an analogy, just perspective. I don't know Guy and I am not sticking up for him but this is what I know about me:

I am the kind of person who operates on the mantra of giving someone the benefit of the doubt. For instance if I'm on a train and hear a toddler screaming his head off which would annoy me to no end to have to deal with that raucous, I'd have no idea as to whether he has a diaper full of sh*t or whether he just lost his mother in the hospital!

As said, I have lived a longer life than most and have "learned" not to jump into conclusions! That's the lesson and apologies accepted MLM.

 

[SURVIVE! Ellie]

Yes, 17 years ago Guy was an impulsive 19-year-old who made a mistake. Afterward, he was upfront and honest about what he had done and served his time without incident. Since then he has been an upstanding citizen and has done nothing to get himself in any sort of trouble again. Here is a letter of recommendation from the person he wronged.

View attachment J Bievenour Letter.pdf

As far as the bankruptcy, he was still a young man trying to find his way in the world, which was especially difficult with his past. He ran up a bit too much in credit card debt and was advised that filing bankruptcy was his best option (Even the new president elect has a few bankruptcies filed). Guy did learn from his experiences. He brought in a business partner to help manage the finances. That partner focused more on sales rather than production, so he was removed from the company. Now I manage the finances, though Guy does still have the final say over business decisions.

We have been assured multiple times by banks that his past would not be a problem and that they would definitely be able to help us with growth financing. It was confusing when we kept getting denied despite good numbers and an excellent credit score. Finally, we received a letter saying that it is against their company policy to lend to felons or businesses who are owned by felons. We are also disqualified from SBA lending for the same reason, they love business who hire felons but apparently not businesses owned by one.

Despite all of that, we are still here and we are still delivering product. We have missed deadlines, but we are getting better. The last of the GSO-4.7 Preorders are being boxed up now and remaining models should go much more quickly. We have never failed to deliver an order and we have every intention of delivering every order that has been placed with us.

 

[SURVIVE! Ellie]

I will post this in the SURVIVE! subforum but want to include it here as well:
There have been a number of people who asked for refunds and then asked for orders to be reinstated. When we issue a refund we lose the payment processing fees for it and then we pay them all over again when we reinstate an order. With the amount of extra effort we have been putting into each these knives, the preorder prices were definitely a bit low so those small losses are definitely still losses (We have since raised our current prices and have been making changes to better serve our customers). We have been giving people some time to consider if they do indeed want the refund. In addition to that, I spend a lot less time in the office these days as I have been in the workshop learning how to do some of the things Guy does in an effort to speed up our output. I will be in the office today and will be sure to get those processed. Considering those extra costs, we are making a blanket policy to not reinstate orders once they have been cancelled. However, we are still happy to change a person’s order to a model that will be ready sooner. I apologize for any inconvenience.

 

[Casinostocks]

Ellie, thank you for sharing that information and I personally feel badly that it had to come to this, on here. I wish you both the best and hope that you are both open to seeking other investment methods (despite the challenges faced both intrinsically and extrinsically) and are open to finding an investor to enable you to move past this (seemingly) challenging inflection point.

 

[NYOutdoors]

Yes, 17 years ago Guy was an impulsive 19-year-old who made a mistake. Afterward, he was upfront and honest about what he had done and served his time without incident. Since then he has been an upstanding citizen and has done nothing to get himself in any sort of trouble again. Here is a letter of recommendation from the person he wronged.

View attachment 671377

As far as the bankruptcy, he was still a young man trying to find his way in the world, which was especially difficult with his past. He ran up a bit too much in credit card debt and was advised that filing bankruptcy was his best option (Even the new president elect has a few bankruptcies filed). Guy did learn from his experiences. He brought in a business partner to help manage the finances. That partner focused more on sales rather than production, so he was removed from the company. Now I manage the finances, though Guy does still have the final say over business decisions.

We have been assured multiple times by banks that his past would not be a problem and that they would definitely be able to help us with growth financing. It was confusing when we kept getting denied despite good numbers and an excellent credit score. Finally, we received a letter saying that it is against their company policy to lend to felons or businesses who are owned by felons. We are also disqualified from SBA lending for the same reason, they love business who hire felons but apparently not businesses owned by one.

Despite all of that, we are still here and we are still delivering product. We have missed deadlines, but we are getting better. The last of the GSO-4.7 Preorders are being boxed up now and remaining models should go much more quickly. We have never failed to deliver an order and we have every intention of delivering every order that has been placed with us.

I'm glad that Guy was upfront, honest, and served his time without incident. That's great. That being said, I don't buy the thinly veiled attempt to excuse it by categorizing him as an impulsive 19-year-old. I was a 19-year-old kid at one time also, and I certainly never had even one fleeting "impulsive" thought of breaking into a hardware store and stealing merchandise.

As far as the bankruptcy is concerned, we aren't talking about Donald Trump's companies or his level of wealth, we are talking about a tiny company that is flailing at this moment, so again, hardly a pertinent comparison.

I have purchased several items from your company and have been thrilled. The current state of the company is too much for me to keep any money tied up or support it in the future, especially considering these new nuggets of information gathered today. Everyone will make their own choices, but I don't think that you guys are being upfront, honest, or forthcoming. I'll wait for my refund within a reasonable time frame...according to your post, should be today, though.

 

[Shark01]

Hopefully the refunds will go out today and that issue will be behind us. Guy’s past is just that..his past. Better to be left there. We buy products all the time without knowing or caring about the owner’s past history. Any of who own and/or ordered Survive knives did so because of the quality of the knife and the value it provides. I could care less about the past. I just want the refund issue to be resolved ASAP to the satisfaction of all. I want Survive to get back to focusing on the production of quality knives and for threads like these to be a thing of the past and left there.

 

[Quiet]

I'm glad that Guy was upfront, honest, and served his time without incident. That's great. That being said, I don't buy the thinly veiled attempt to excuse it by categorizing him as an impulsive 19-year-old. I was a 19-year-old kid at one time also, and I certainly never had even one fleeting "impulsive" thought of breaking into a hardware store and stealing merchandise.

As far as the bankruptcy is concerned, we aren't talking about Donald Trump's companies or his level of wealth, we are talking about a tiny company that is flailing at this moment, so again, hardly a pertinent comparison.

I have purchased several items from your company and have been thrilled. The current state of the company is too much for me to keep any money tied up or support it in the future, especially considering these new nuggets of information gathered today. Everyone will make their own choices, but I don't think that you guys are being upfront, honest, or forthcoming. I'll wait for my refund within a reasonable time frame...according to your post, should be today, though.

And really, it's this. If Ellie has time to come defend Guy's past actions, then it would be a rational expectation that she will have time to issue all refunds that have been requested no later than COB today.

Also, I remain skeptical of things improving. Ellie, is printing out labels and packing knives one of the things that was holding up delivery of knives for months and months? I was under the impression that Guy grinding each knife remains the bottle-neck, so I'm not sure how your increased assistance in the shop is going to result in things moving "much more quickly".

 

[jbmonkey]

My nephew is mentally ill and has been diagnosed to be suffering from schizophrenia. A while back before the severity of his mental illness had come to full light, he had entered a house in his neighborhood which was unlocked and went through their refrigerator eating food and ice cream while the owner was at home! Luckily for him, the owner was not armed so his a** was not blasted off to pieces. Cutting a long story short, the nephew has now been incarcerated on/off for about 3 years so now the system owns his a** for what had started as break/entry (unlocked front door) and count 1 burglary (basically the statute on the books) which is very very sad despite all the support available to him by his very middle class family (there are families much more affluent which are also dealing with similar or graver situations). Yes, his immediate family is also at blame for ignoring and neglecting what in hind sight appear to be tell-tale signs. Moral of the story, if Guy was convicted of burglary, we have no idea regarding the circumstances and some are now just acting as holier-than-thou!

While it is absolutely your choice as to whom you decide to do business with based on the purported evidence against Guy or anyone like him, try to reach down in your repertoire to check on your empathy genes too because I am sure that you are unaware of the circumstances regarding Guy's troubles as I am. If Guy was indeed convicted of a crime and had also paid his debt to the society, his business and his actions vis a vis Survive! should be judged based upon how he runs that business and how he delivers, which admittedly does not look too well for him at the present time. We have many people in the business community, some currently highly respected, who have done pretty darn dumb things in their youth and their past. Here is what Survive! is faced with right now so Guy/Ellie the Principals ought to be judged on how they handle this crisis which can admittedly turn into a catastrophe and a total collapse. They ought to recognize that the daggers (no pun) are now out and some nefarious sorts on here already have started the metaphoric acts of sticking those inside!

so your saying maybe the survive guy is mentally ill? kidding, kidding....

it was a good point for all of us to remember under the old system of the local sheriff took ya to your dad and gave you a second chance outside of the system. in todays world of zero tolerance no one gets that second chance outside of the system much if at all anymore. many of us might have criminal records if we didn't get that local sheriff second chance.

too bad it came to all this. good honest communication is worth it's weight in gold.