retired01: I do not recommend dealing with this individual

PineChaos said:
I am quite aware what proxy buying is. If I must say it again "I forward the guy his mail end of story".
So that would be a NO.
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:thumbup:

Doesn't sound like proxy buying to me. Sounds like a friend with a US addy helping a friend out.
 
mrbear said:
:thumbup:

Doesn't sound like proxy buying to me. Sounds like a friend with a US addy helping a friend out.
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It all depends where the funds are coming from, and who is doing the contacting.

If PineChaos uses his forum account and paypal account to purchase the knife specifically to flip it over to retired01, that's proxy buying.

If retired01 contacts the buyer, and purchases the knife with HIS paypal account, and then has it shipped to PineChaos for transfer outside the country, that is not proxy buying but exactly what PineChaos has said is happening.

From the description of the last dealings that Premium Cut had with these two fellows (quoted here)

Premium Cut said:
Ha. I haven't been on for a few days and look what I find. I too had a similar experience with Retired01. He wanted a knife I had posted for sale and didn't divulge to me he was located in the Netherlands until after the fact. I asked for a few more bucks for shipping as I wanted to double box it. Texas to Netherlands had me worried, I wont lie. I had never shipped an item intended for an overseas destination and this was a SHARP fixed blade. He went batshit on me, threats, etc. saying how I changed the terms of the deal, which I did i'll admit, AFTER I found out the knife was going a lot farther than the US (which my price included fees, insurance and shipping in the US). I felt bad afterwards so decided to sell it to him at original stated price and i'd take care of the extra packing materials on my dime. He stated it was a "point of honesty and he wouldn't accept the knife from me even if I sold it to him for $1". I told him honesty would have been telling me it was going to a different continent to begin with, which I then told him to shove it (in not so polite words).

a few days later I get an offer to buy said knife. It sells and ships to....yep. PineChaos.
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that sure looks like proxy buying to me.
 
King - Read the communications that OP put in his first post. No guessing required - this wasn't proxy buying. He may have done it before, but not in this case.
 
HappyDaddy said:
King - Read the communications that OP put in his first post. No guessing required - this wasn't proxy buying. He may have done it before, but not in this case.
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I'm sorry, I was responding to mrbear's post about proxy buying. Since the OP never sold the knife to the guy in question, the OP was not talking about proxy buying at the start. GBU threads are here so that others can pitch in with personal experiences with the subject, or opinions on the doings of the subject. Once proxy buying came up thanks to Premium Cut, the discussion started to involve that, and since that was what mrbear was referring to I was also referring to that.
 
^ Ok. FWIW, if I were a seller, I'd have more concerns about a transaction such as the one OP entered into than I would with a "proxy" sale. Here's why - on a proxy sale, my only point of contact is with the buyer. As I've said above, I don't give a rip what he does with the knife after our transaction is complete. I'm never, under any circumstances, going to deal with anyone but the buyer. In OP's case, (assuming it went through) he'd be taking payment from one person and shipping to a second person. That situation is rife with dangers. What if the knife is damaged when it gets to the buyer? When was it damaged? What if it gets lost? Is the first recipient going to check it before forwarding it? Does the seller have to answer to him and to the buyer? Again, OP had all the info and agreed to do it that way. I'd much rather sell the knife to, and ship the knife to, a "proxy," whether I knew he was buying for someone else or not.
 
The OP never actually sold anything, he attempted to sell it but was unable due to the intended seller not supplying a US address promptly and then, after sending funds, cancelling the sale and dropping negative feedback on him even though he sent back the funds in full from the cancelled sale.

later in this thread Premium Cut popped in with a personal experience of dealings with this same guy, except instead of not supplying an address in the US he just surprised him with the fact he was in another country and then refusing to pay extra for international shipping because he felt slighted. Premium cut still decided to be a nice seller and sell it at the original price only to have this guy refuse this sale too for reasons based on lack of honesty from Premium Cut. What really started the whole proxy sale thing was when Premium cut ended up selling the knife to PineChaos with no mention from PineChaos that he was the US contact for this guy, showing that PineChaos is just a proxy buyer rather than just a US contact for out-of-country shipping. If PineChaos had stated he was buying the knife for retired01 I doubt Premium Cut would've sold the knife, hence why proxy buying is a scummy way to get around personal problems.

If patterns tell a story this guy retired01 is not a very good buyer to deal with when he doesn't get exactly his way.
 
King - Yes, I know. I've read the entire thread. There are two different situations being discussed. OP agreed to sell to the retired guy and ship to pinechaos. Premium Cut had what seems to have been an undisclosed proxy buyer. I explained above why I would prefer the latter to the former if I were a seller. YMMV.
 
KingMC said:
If patterns tell a story this guy retired01 is not a very good buyer to deal with when he doesn't get exactly his way.
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And this should be the point here. I wouldn't want this guy to get his hands on anything that was mine. Especially through deception.
 
HappyDaddy said:
King - Yes, I know. I've read the entire thread. There are two different situations being discussed. OP agreed to sell to the retired guy and ship to pinechaos. Premium Cut had what seems to have been an undisclosed proxy buyer. I explained above why I would prefer the latter to the former if I were a seller. YMMV.
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Got it.
 
PineChaos said:
I am quite aware what proxy buying is. If I must say it again "I forward the guy his mail end of story".
So that would be a NO.
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This is not even true, based on the context of this thread.

You buy knives, and no telling what else, and send it to retired01. That's a heck of a lot more than sending him/her their mail.

Let's say retired01 wanted to buy....a car. And you buy it and "just forward his mail"? Does that make any sense?

Or, retired01 wanted to buy...gold. And you buy it and just forward his mail? That makes any sense?

No. You bought knives for retired01. Because sellers had a problem with him and his B.S. And then you mailed them to him. Now, you can argue weather that is O.K. or not. But there is no way you can say that "you were just forwarding his mail". Well of course you can. And you did. And do. But everyone knows that is B.S.

I'll try one more time. Let's say you sent Heroin/opium/marijuana/whateverelseyoucanthinkof through the mail to retired01. When it was traced back to you
could you just say to the Fed's "I was just forwarding his mail"? Why hell no.

That dog just don't hunt.
 
craytab said:
I agree.

There is certainly no rule against being a proxy. Opinions on this differ. It is my opinion that you should identify yourself as a proxy when buying. Transparency and honesty is the key here.
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Cray, I think this is a bit of a stretch - I don't see any need or reason for the buyer to identify him/herself as the proxy. Nor the need for the seller to know what will happen to the goods he/she has sold. To be honest, I find too many sellers wary of shipping international, and most of the time their fear is unfounded (and largely based on GBU horror threads). Yes, international transaction can go wrong, but it's an exception than the norm, especially given the fact that USPS now includes tracking to many EU states, and there are perfectly reliable ways to ship (Registered).

I act as a proxy to pretty much all my friends based in India and gladly ship international on my sale threads. I don't see any need to discuss this with the seller. Nor have I been questioned by any seller about my intentions post sale.

Things did not go smooth in this transaction, but there is no need to make a general rule out of it. IMO.
 
choombak said:
Cray, I think this is a bit of a stretch - I don't see any need or reason for the buyer to identify him/herself as the proxy. Nor the need for the seller to know what will happen to the goods he/she has sold. To be honest, I find too many sellers wary of shipping international, and most of the time their fear is unfounded (and largely based on GBU horror threads). Yes, international transaction can go wrong, but it's an exception than the norm, especially given the fact that USPS now includes tracking to many EU states, and there are perfectly reliable ways to ship (Registered).

I act as a proxy to pretty much all my friends based in India and gladly ship international on my sale threads. I don't see any need to discuss this with the seller. Nor have I been questioned by any seller about my intentions post sale.

Things did not go smooth in this transaction, but there is no need to make a general rule out of it. IMO.
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How is operating with honesty a stretch? I also never called for a rule. In fact I pointed out the opposite. What you are doing and what we have seen other people do are different and show the problem with proxy buying. Look at the recent threads on this. In one, a guy was refused sale because it would have gone against his terms. The prospective buyer had a meltdown and was begging for other people to help him violate the sellers terms. Are you okay with this sort of proxy buying? In another instance, a buyer who was refused sale by the seller conspired with another member to get the item, only then to try to gouge the seller through paypal for the original offer price of the denied buyer. And in an example seen here, the refused buyer seems to have gotten around that refusal by way of proxy buying.

Here is the problem: look at retired01's history here. He has a record of poor communication, flying completely off the handle, and breaking forum rules. Look at the negative feedback he left for the OP. Completely against the rules. By dealing with this person unknowingly through a proxy, a seller opens him/herself up to far greater risk as it eliminates her/his right to choose who to deal with. If I don't know who I am dealing with I have zero chance of avoiding known trouble makers like retired01. While you or your proxy buyers may not be a problem here we have an excellent negative example of a proxy buyer. Dealing with retired01 has proven to be hazardous to buyers reputations. Do we think that risk of hazard is eliminated when using a proxy? I sure as hell don't.
 
I can see both sides of this issue. I really do. In the end as long as it is not against the rules then, it's the way it is. Retired is a tool, but it seems most of these other scenarios go smoothly. To an extent I care about who I sell to, but with the internet; that is not always controllable. In this case since parties are known, put them on ignore and move on. If the powers to be want to change the rules then that is that. I am not going to lose sleep either way ....life is too short. :)
 
I can see two advantages to a proxy buyer.

First, he gets good at navigating the intricacies of foreign sales. Confusing for you, painless for him. And if you don't even know that your buyer is a proxy, you won't lose sleep over it.

Second, a difficult foreign buyer is shielded both ways, dealing only with someone who understands him.
It's business, like buying a custom from a dealer because he has a selection in stock, and the maker is a prima donna.
 
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