Ritter MK1 in CPM M4

softrockrenegade said:
your right i guess 3 major changes in an otherwise production blade for 940 knives wouldn't result in a change in price!! what could i have been thinking i mean why isnt the spyderco gayle bradly (which is made in china) the same price as a tenacious??
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price change yes there should be. never said there shouldn't be a price change. M4 isn't a super expensive steel and isn't super hard to grind down. either way i ordered one so i felt the price was ok.

i'm trying to get it through why everyone is bitching because it's 80$ more then a normal grip and yet there are so many problems with them. no blade should come off centered , uneven grind or dull. and the dlc coating should be near perfect like on all the zt knives.

this is benchmades fault for slacking on quality.

aeromedix is personally checking everyone which is why i have faith that in the second batch we will see better quality.
 
ar0maticdecay said:
price change yes there should be. never said there shouldn't be a price change. M4 isn't a super expensive steel and isn't super hard to grind down. either way i ordered one so i felt the price was ok.

i'm trying to get it through why everyone is bitching because it's 80$ more then a normal grip and yet there are so many problems with them. no blade should come off centered , uneven grind or dull. and the dlc coating should be near perfect like on all the zt knives.

this is benchmades fault for slacking on quality.

aeromedix is personally checking everyone which is why i have faith that in the second batch we will see better quality.
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fair enough! but its more of a 50 dollar price change since there is only msrp for the ritters
 
Well the pivot has already loosened causing bladeplay that I quickly fixed with locktite and the coating on the spine is either scratched or there's a deep scratch under the coating and the pocketclip is poorly finished. Other than that it's a great knife.
 
I feel that the knife was everything that it was marketed to be and am pretty happy with it. It seems that there were more QC problems with this knife than any of the other sprint runs and I'm not sure what the deal is with that, but that aside its a great knife with awesome blade materials and a killer lock. Everyone knew and willingly ordered a this knife knowing exactly what it would be like so its not like the price was surprising. The Ritter grips are not the most economical knives in the world either. You can get other knives that have "better" materials and are also made in the USfor around the same price but its the awesome blade shape and geometry that makes this knife worth buying to me. All in all I am pretty darned happy with my purchas(es).

On a side note in my experience Taiwainese manufacting far exceeds china in most all cases. I have actually been very happy and surprised with the quality of fit and finish that we have been seeing on there Taiwain Spydercos. IMO the F&F outdoes all the Golden Spydercos I have owned. Also take a look at anything CRKT. Now they are not exactly top of the line knives but compare those Taiwainese manufactured knives to China knives of the same price and I think you'll find that Taiwain blows China out of the water.
 
softrockrenegade said:
What makes the blade of poor fit and finish? Mine and any iv seen pics of are perfect !!! Please post picures of this so called poorly made blades!
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When I compare one of these knives (number 148) with a safe-queen M2 High Speed 558M2 (also numbered 148) the difference in quality is very apparent.

As far as I can tell, the grinds of the M2 knife are perfect. On each side of the blade the primary grind starts just below the thumb studs, and on each side of the blade the area where the logos are etched looks the same size.
The edge bevels are even and the blade finishes in a sharp tip.
The blade's coating is evenly applied and no grind marks are visible through it.

On the M4 knife the flat sections above the primary grind, where the Doug Ritter logo and Benchmade butterfly are displayed, are noticably different sizes on each side of the blade.
On one side of the blade the grind starts right on the bottom edge of the thumb stud. On the other the grind starts approximately 2-3mm below the thumb stud.
The edge bevel is very uneven and the tip area of the belly is effectively chisel-ground.
The tip is flat and blunt.

The flat areas of the logos have scatchy, uneven grind marks visible through the coating.
These are not replicated on the area of the primary grind, but on one side there are two individual vertical scratches from grinding, and on the other side of the blade there is a wierd vertical dent near the tip.

The pocket clip has sharp burrs on the edge.

All three knives have similar faults.
 
softrockrenegade said:
ok cause i guess taiwan isnt china sorry !! but most taiwan manufactures sub their product to chinese plants !!! i love when people focus on the wrong point of a post or thread!!
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"Most" may or may not be true in general, but it's wrong in this case. I love it when people focus on the wrong point of a post or thread!!!
 
I’m not entirely sure about the knife, on one hand I’ve always liked the Ritter blade shape and CMP-M4 is a great steel. On the other hand my example did come with many of the fit and finish issues mentioned in this thread, though at least my blade centers nicely in the handle.

It didn’t come sharp, and the blade grinds aren’t as even as I might have liked. On the surface these are issues that don’t seem to affect the knife as a user after all I’m more then capable of sharpening it to a fantastic edge and the grind isn’t so bad that it will affect the cutting performance.

What worries me is that these flaws are fairly simple details that BM failed to get right. Things that instead of making sure that they exceeded the expectations of ELU’s and making the best knife they could (or even performing simple QC) they simply said: “that will do” or “good enough”.

It makes me wonder what other less apparent details they’ve skipped. Maybe something that will have a bigger impact on performance down the road then uneven grinds?
 
I have a large and a small (both M2 and M4), and my older son has a small (M2 and M4). We've compared them and inspected the M4 RSKs. The only issue we've found is less than perfect centering on the two smalls, although both are well within the usable range.

Just for clarity, I'm not saying you're not reporting accurately. On the contrary, this just shows, frankly, what a low priority Benchmade has put on supporting a valuable longterm relationship with Doug Ritter and AeroMedix.

:thumbdn: :barf:

All my dealings with AeroMedix on these knives and prior knives has been exemplary. There is only so much they can do. Benchmade has put them in a terrible position, IMO.

Steven Andrews said:
When I compare one of these knives (number 148) with a safe-queen M2 High Speed 558M2 (also numbered 148) the difference in quality is very apparent.

As far as I can tell, the grinds of the M2 knife are perfect. On each side of the blade the primary grind starts just below the thumb studs, and on each side of the blade the area where the logos are etched looks the same size.
The edge bevels are even and the blade finishes in a sharp tip.
The blade's coating is evenly applied and no grind marks are visible through it.

On the M4 knife the flat sections above the primary grind, where the Doug Ritter logo and Benchmade butterfly are displayed, are noticably different sizes on each side of the blade.
On one side of the blade the grind starts right on the bottom edge of the thumb stud. On the other the grind starts approximately 2-3mm below the thumb stud.
The edge bevel is very uneven and the tip area of the belly is effectively chisel-ground.
The tip is flat and blunt.

The flat areas of the logos have scatchy, uneven grind marks visible through the coating.
These are not replicated on the area of the primary grind, but on one side there are two individual vertical scratches from grinding, and on the other side of the blade there is a wierd vertical dent near the tip.

The pocket clip has sharp burrs on the edge.

All three knives have similar faults.
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I decided to keep mine. The axis lock issue I had seems to have worked itself out. I got it to a good edge with my limited experience also. I just wish it didn't fingerprint so easily. You look at it wrong and it gets a fingerprint. I like the finish but do wish it looked like the one on the aeromedix website. I have seen a few that do, but most don't. Why didn't they do the DLC like Kershaw?

Also everyone keeps mentioning the clips. It is my understanding from customer service and customer service sent me 2 new Parkerized clips for another grip I have that they are generally kind of rough. I am not making excuses....but I have seen 5 brand new clips. The 2 I have and 3 on Ritters. They have all been on the "rough" side.


Also, quick question. The bottom of the blade, the round part that slides over the axis isn't coated it seems. Is that something to worry about since m4 isn't stainless?
 
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On your last, I'd say no.

1. None of the non-stainless coated blades (and, in fact, none of the stainless coated blades) have ever been coated on the tang lobe and I've never heard of a problem.

2. If they did, we'd all howl, because the coating (probably including DLC) would increase friction and make opening and closing slower/harder.

3. If they did, at least before DLC, it would have worn off in short order from friction. (I realize 2 & 3 are somewhat contradictory ;) )

4. As long as you use the knife, friction will tend to keep the tang lobe polished.

:D

jazzandmetal said:
I decided to keep mine. The axis lock issue I had seems to have worked itself out. I got it to a good edge with my limited experience also. I just wish it didn't fingerprint so easily. You look at it wrong and it gets a fingerprint. I like the finish but do wish it looked like the one on the aeromedix website. I have seen a few that do, but most don't. Why didn't they do the DLC like Kershaw?

Also everyone keeps mentioning the clips. It is my understanding from customer service and customer service sent me 2 new Parkerized clips for another grip I have that they are generally kind of rough. I am not making excuses....but I have seen 5 brand new clips. The 2 I have and 3 on Ritters. They have all been on the "rough" side.


Also, quick question. The bottom of the blade, the round part that slides over the axis isn't coated it seems. Is that something to worry about since m4 isn't stainless?
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One thing to keep in mind is that while these things were being produced there was an WHOLE LOT of complaining both here and the benchmade forums about them taking so long to finish. A lot of that complaining is from the very same people that are now complaining that Benchmade rushed the products out and didn't take enough time on their QC. You can never have the best of both worlds everything is a tradeoff so make up your mind. I said it while they were being made and I'll say it again I would much rather have waited even another month or two than have them be rushed to get the orders out and maybe not prioritize their quality control as much.
 
nevermind35 said:
One thing to keep in mind is that while these things were being produced there was an WHOLE LOT of complaining both here and the benchmade forums about them taking so long to finish. A lot of that complaining is from the very same people that are now complaining that Benchmade rushed the products out and didn't take enough time on their QC. You can never have the best of both worlds everything is a tradeoff so make up your mind. I said it while they were being made and I'll say it again I would much rather have waited even another month or two than have them be rushed to get the orders out and maybe not prioritize their quality control as much.
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Are you sure it's the same people? Even if it is, in my biz, especially with an important relationship, we'd rather take the heat and get it right than rush it out and have it wrong. People tend to forget a delay - they don't forget a poor product.
 
Since I got a couple of these I figured I would chime in on the finish of mine. They are for the most part great. The blade seems to have the same finish as my other Griptilians and Rifts except it has the DLC coating which almost seems like a translucent black color. The actual coating looks very even on both knives and I don't see any places that look like the coating is thinner than the rest. Maybe people are seeing oils and thinking it is a difference in coating thickness? As far as fingerprints, come on give me a break. Tell your fingers to stop making so much oil if it is a problem. Like anyone can control what something you put on it looks like? Benchmade also, I'm almost 100% positive, does not have the equipment to do DLC coatings. So if you don't like the coating you can blame the company they contracted. But mine are great and perfectly even looking so I think they did a fine job.

The grind on the large is even and dare I say perfect. The tip is pointy and it shaves hair. The blade is almost centered but may be off a couple hundredths of an inch. It is still between the line created by both scales where they join.

The mini's grind is a little off. The only way I can tell is because one side is about 1mm lower than the other in relation to the thumbstud. Other than that the grind is centered and looks great. The only way you would know is if looking for it and comparing both sides with a measuring device. Visually you would never look at it and say 'hey, that blade grind is off'. The tip is also pointy and the blade is sharper than the large and 'pops' hair off. The blade on this one is perfectly centered. Again, the blade has the same finish with the slight vertical lines as all my other griptilians and the coating looks perfect.

It seems like there is a thread once a week about the quality of Benchmade taking a nose dive. I have quite a few Benchmade knives pass through my hands and I just have not seen it. I currently have I think 19 Benchmade knives and there is nothing I can complain about on any of them other than a slightly off centered blade or two. I think some people need to start buying custom knives so they can have 'perfection.' Although I have seen quite a few custom knives with worse grinds and off center blades and other issues so you better stick to the popular and expensive makers. I for the most part have terrible luck in my life. I guess I use all my good luck up when buying Benchmade knives and avoiding the terrible knives they must be constantly putting out. And for those people that got a bad knife, Benchmade will take care of you if it is a genuine problem.
 
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I have rectified the bad edge grinds and blunt tip on the knife that I am going to keep (Mini 148), although sharpening the tip has removed the coating from the first 1.5mm of the spine.

I have over thirty Axis Lock Benchmades, plus some of their fixed blades. I also own plenty of custom knives.
The grinds of the three M4 Minis that I currently have is poor in comparison to the other Benchmades that I have. I have seen from some of the photos of the M4 RSKs on forums that my three were not the only knives with blunt tips.

I wasn't one of the people moaning about the late release of the knives. I would have been happy to wait even longer to get knives that weren't rushed out, at the expense of quality.
 
i was taking my mini grip apart and i think i lost one of the spacers between the liners, are there two or one ?!?!?!
 
nastynick12 said:
i was taking my mini grip apart and i think i lost one of the spacers between the liners, are there two or one ?!?!?!
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What do you mean by spacer? Are you talking about the washers that go between the blade and the liners? If so there is one on each side of the blade. Not sure what else could be considered a spacer.
 
softrockrenegade said:
ok cause i guess taiwan isnt china sorry !! but most taiwan manufactures sub their product to chinese plants !!! i love when people focus on the wrong point of a post or thread!!
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sorry, i have to disagree on that also.
Everyone in the world outsource to China, not just Taiwan.
For the sake of the conversation, Taiwan is actually trying not to outsource to China because of price competition and people thinking they are the same in quality. Since we are talking about quality, and not trying to stereotype, i would say that for the most part, Taiwan-made products are generally better in quality than China-made products. As with any product, its not where its made, its about the Quality control established by that company. A great brand can have terrible products if the Quality control is bad.

As with Companies in taiwan that "out-source" to china, i would say that 90%
of that actually is their own establishment in China. They depend on their own managment, their quality control, and their expertise to manage their comapany and products. FYI
 
nastynick12 said:
i was taking my mini grip apart and i think i lost one of the spacers between the liners, are there two or one ?!?!?!
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The full sized Grip has the blade stop pin at the front and a spacer at the rear of the liner cartridge, but the Mini Grip has the stop pin, but no spacer at the rear.

On the Mini the rear of the liner cartridge is supported by the scale screws.
 
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