RMJ Tactical prices (wtf?)

Danke42 said:
What happened? The bit skate across it?
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No. See how it is curvy and follows the pattern of the finger choils? Probably scuffed it on the worksurface of the mill which I use with a carbide burr to simultaneously grind out the tang and scale patterns. Didn’t mask it off or protect the surface because I knew I would be sanding them down later anyway.

I don’t mean to hijack this thread. If you or anyone else have questions, I’m happy to answer them privately.
 
Nader393 said:
Don't REALLY need to be an expert/pro in knowing the value of a decent blade, now, do you?
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Well, "value" is subjective the the individual. If you are going to apply YOUR definition universally, then yeah....you kind of do have to show some level of expertise that demonstrates your qualifications to do so.

Even in professional cost estimating, the market is a primary driver in establishing the "value" of a product.....and isn't that what everyone has een saying?
 
I haven't read through this entire thread but has anyone had the stones to say it's mostly about marketing.

Some people have done badass things with rmj Hawks. We all want to be badass. RMJ products are expensive because they have been able to tap into that aspirational marketing well.

Most built wranglers are pavement princesses, most carabineers never see a climbing rope under load and most ppl that own a tactical hawk will never need to open a car door without using the handle.
 
I have owned a few of Ryan's works and continue to use his stuff currently. I like the quality, the guarantee and the personal attention I receive every time I contact them. He has a time proven product that has proven to be high quality under harsh conditions. Value truly is a subjective thing. For instance, I see race cars as a vehicle for arriving to the scene of the accident first or for folks to spend an inordinate amount of time prepping/building/tuning for less than two minutes of enjoyment. Other see race cars as an adrenaline packed ride worth the time and money invested. They value it, I most certainly do not.
On to the marketing point....if anyone can displace RMJ in the tactical tomahawk market...give it a bash. But to make the assumption that RMJ price point is based solely on marketing is ridiculous. If the product does not live up to the hype, how is it that he is not only still in business, but that business is booming? In the world of instant feedback and the experiences of other readily available at our fingertips, if the product was only hype and marketing, I am pretty sure we would know it by now.

Bottom line....folks that build race cars probably don't use Harbor Freight tools. They buy quality tools and expect to pay the price for them (trying to find a common language here). Folks that appreciate a quality tactical tomahawk like RMJ. Just because someone else does not value what you like does not make it ridiculous. I myself think that any money spent on a race car that you can only drive on a track for a short amount of time and have to pay to do so is a colossal waste of time and money but that should not stop anyone from enjoying it as a hobby. Then again, I would not hop on a racing forum and say that Dale Earnhardt Jr. should not get paid the salary he does because I can drive a car too.
 
Thanks chris26, for the thoughtful reply. Absolutely correct, racing cars is expensive. Especially paying someone to build them. I started out doing that, and was repeatedly disappointed by multiple shops that nickel and dimed me on work that couldn't be done to my standards on a reasonable time frame. So I started collecting tools, 90% of which are Harbor Freight or other Chinese, BTW, and learned how to do things on my own. Now I do all work myself, and my biggest operating costs are race entry fees, race gas, and diesel for my truck to haul everything to the track and back. Still expensive!

Also, thanks for bringing up tools. Like I said, a vast majority of mine started out as HF. The mill and lathe I just used to make my current knives and a lot of race car and race motorcycle parts are Chinese. What tools I found were most useful, I would replace with quality American tools I would find at garage sales or on eBay. Used. I've also learned that some Chinese tools are great, as long as you use domestic abrasives and blades on them.

Speaking more on tools, let me bring up this comparison. A tomahawk or hatchet is very similar to a hammer in design and function. For both applications, there are cheap foreign versions that get the job done as well as the very best domestic examples that cost much more. I had to look this up, because I don't work much with wood, but the best framing hammer you can buy is an American-made Martinez M-1, which BTW, is made of Titanium. Cost? $220. And this is a tool that can actually earn you money and put food on your table. Another tool example: Snap-On Dual 80 3/8" ratcheting wrench. The best you can buy, American-made to last a lifetime, beautifully crafted of excellent materials, multiple precision-fitting moving parts, and again, can earn you money to support your family. Cost? $80. (I don't have one, BTW. Mine is an early '70's Snap-on as part of a set I got at a garage sale a few years ago.)

Look, I'm not denying that RMJ makes a great product (scale fasteners notwithstanding :)). I'm just, not really surprised, but given pause that they get away with charging as much as they do without more backlash. As Ryanol alluded to, they have great marketing, especially if you can associate yourself with the military establishment. Then your product is golden. My take is that if you can afford it without depriving yourself, and more importantly, your family, of their needs, then by all means go for it. And congratulations on your success in life, and have fun with your excellent tomahawk or knife. Again, I don't mean to rile up some of the fans with my "emperor has no clothes" take on it. I do enjoy the discussion and think it would be helpful to guide some of the younger enthusiasts in their purchasing decisions.
 
Ryanol said:
I haven't read through this entire thread but has anyone had the stones to say it's mostly about marketing.

Some people have done badass things with rmj Hawks. We all want to be badass. RMJ products are expensive because they have been able to tap into that aspirational marketing well.

Most built wranglers are pavement princesses, most carabineers never see a climbing rope under load and most ppl that own a tactical hawk will never need to open a car door without using the handle.
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LOL...."stones"?

Several people have already mentioned "the market". Maybe your generalizations apply to you; but you don't have the standing to make the assertion you made.

And given the lack of actual "need" for anything other than one basic simple carbon steel knife, none of these knives or any other sharp needs to be used to be quality.
 
Nader393 said:
Thanks chris26, for the thoughtful reply. Absolutely correct, racing cars is expensive. Especially paying someone to build them. I started out doing that, and was repeatedly disappointed by multiple shops that nickel and dimed me on work that couldn't be done to my standards on a reasonable time frame. So I started collecting tools, 90% of which are Harbor Freight or other Chinese, BTW, and learned how to do things on my own. Now I do all work myself, and my biggest operating costs are race entry fees, race gas, and diesel for my truck to haul everything to the track and back. Still expensive!

Also, thanks for bringing up tools. Like I said, a vast majority of mine started out as HF. The mill and lathe I just used to make my current knives and a lot of race car and race motorcycle parts are Chinese. What tools I found were most useful, I would replace with quality American tools I would find at garage sales or on eBay. Used. I've also learned that some Chinese tools are great, as long as you use domestic abrasives and blades on them.

Speaking more on tools, let me bring up this comparison. A tomahawk or hatchet is very similar to a hammer in design and function. For both applications, there are cheap foreign versions that get the job done as well as the very best domestic examples that cost much more. I had to look this up, because I don't work much with wood, but the best framing hammer you can buy is an American-made Martinez M-1, which BTW, is made of Titanium. Cost? $220. And this is a tool that can actually earn you money and put food on your table. Another tool example: Snap-On Dual 80 3/8" ratcheting wrench. The best you can buy, American-made to last a lifetime, beautifully crafted of excellent materials, multiple precision-fitting moving parts, and again, can earn you money to support your family. Cost? $80. (I don't have one, BTW. Mine is an early '70's Snap-on as part of a set I got at a garage sale a few years ago.)

Look, I'm not denying that RMJ makes a great product (scale fasteners notwithstanding :)). I'm just, not really surprised, but given pause that they get away with charging as much as they do without more backlash. As Ryanol alluded to, they have great marketing, especially if you can associate yourself with the military establishment. Then your product is golden. My take is that if you can afford it without depriving yourself, and more importantly, your family, of their needs, then by all means go for it. And congratulations on your success in life, and have fun with your excellent tomahawk or knife. Again, I don't mean to rile up some of the fans with my "emperor has no clothes" take on it. I do enjoy the discussion and think it would be helpful to guide some of the younger enthusiasts in their purchasing decisions.
Click to expand...

Finish your knife, keep track of the time and cost of materials and share.
 
Nader393 said:
I don't mean to rile up some of the fans with my "emperor has no clothes" take on it. I do enjoy the discussion and think it would be helpful to guide some of the younger enthusiasts in their purchasing decisions.
Click to expand...

I think it's "helpful" for "younger enthusiasts" to get an example of the kind of pompous bloviating that can occur when someone with a sense of entitlement can't get his way.
 
Nader393 said:
That's easy. $42 in materials. About 8 hours in (without a decent belt grinder).
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Cool, get it done, sheath too. This will be a fun part of the discussion about how much goes into a knife and how much is marketing. When your done. I'll be brutally honest, but fair In my judgement. So prove yourself. I can tell you like the challenge.
How about a test of your knife as well? Share with us what you decided on heat treatment. Show us what geometry you chose and why.

All good fun, all good learning for all.
Engaging in content is more enjoyable then argument and leads to greater understanding and perspective.

Whether we argee or disagree at the end doesn't matter you still learn and get motivated to make a knife.
Ready? GO!
 
About 6 or 7 years ago I won $10,000 in a Mega Millions lotto (on a one dollar random quick pick), after taxes I received $6,000, the first thing I purchased was an RMJ Jenny Wren (then paid my rent for the next 6 months), fits easily into a short back pack like my Rush 12 or Camelbak Military H.A.W.G.
Winkler's hawks are great but I wanted something excellent at both breaching through a wall, chopping the lock out of a metal door in the event of fire and CQC if needed.

DSCN0538.jpg


DSCN0539.jpg


DSCN0541.jpg


DSCN0545.jpg


Fits perfectly into these packs.
Camelbak Military H.A.W.G.'s

DSCN2282_zpsdccf1f15.jpg


Fits perfectly into these packs.
Rush 12's

DSCN2284_zpsf98fb11d.jpg
 
chambelona59 said:
About 6 or 7 years ago I won $10,000 in a Mega Millions lotto (on a one dollar random quick pick), after taxes I received $6,000, the first thing I purchased was an RMJ Jenny Wren (then paid my rent for the next 6 months), fits easily into a short back pack like my Rush 12 or Camelbak Military H.A.W.G.
Winkler's hawks are great but I wanted something excellent at both breaching through a wall, chopping the lock out of a metal door in the event of fire and CQC if needed.

DSCN0538.jpg


DSCN0539.jpg


DSCN0541.jpg


DSCN0545.jpg


Fits perfectly into these packs.
Camelbak Military H.A.W.G.'s

DSCN2282_zpsdccf1f15.jpg


Fits perfectly into these packs.
Rush 12's

DSCN2284_zpsf98fb11d.jpg
Click to expand...

How are they at chopping stuff?
 
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