Roger Linger stole my payment for WSK

Steve, I'm not saying communication is not important. Yes it's paramont in this business. You can ask anyone I've done business with on BF that I'm prompt with my return emails. My phone is there if I cannot be reached via email. My number is on my website. I welcome any and all phone calls and go out of my way for my customers. I'm just pissed that he's calling the man a thief when I know Roger is not. Life is full of unpredictable circumstances and Roger may be in a bad way and no one knows it. Waiting is an unfortunate part of ordering a custom piece. Until Roger can voice his side of the story calling him a thief is uncalled for.
Scott
 
Computer problems or not, I think Roger needs to contact this guy with some kind of status update. Lack of communication sucks. I have waited over 5 years for a custom knife, but the maker kept me updated.
 
Razorback - Knives said:
I'm just pissed that he's calling the man a thief when I know Roger is not. Life is full of unpredictable circumstances and Roger may be in a bad way and no one knows it. Waiting is an unfortunate part of ordering a custom piece. Scott
Click to expand...

You and I both know that waiting is part of the biz, Scott.

You are pissed that he is calling Roger a thief because you are a maker. Try being a collector, and having someone that you paid in full, 'cause he said your knife was done, drop off the planet for a month or so.

You would feel completely screwed over, without recourse, and you would be correct to have those feelings.

Some makers are friends of mine, and the money doesn't matter.

Some makers, I just want the danged knife, and it better be PDQ when I have paid my monies.

I truly hope that Roger is doing well, but there is NO DAMNED EXCUSE FOR LACK OF COMMUNICATION. End of story.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Thank you so much for all of you regarding to my personal issue with Mr. Linger. However, not giving customer a simple clue like ( I have moved, busy, etc ) is just something I can not understand especially when it is a business matter. He suddenly stopped contacting me back without giving me any clue. If I was his long time friend, or known him so well for long time, then I might think he is busy or etc. When he was busy and gave me late reply, he used to tell me about what's up. Like I said, I ordered him about a year ago, my knife was supposed to be done in Feb ( He told me it would ), but it wasn't, and I was never upset about that delay. The reason why I titled ( stole payment ) is that I can not get refund through either PayPal or my Credit Card company. I have already contacted my card company about my situation and was told that after 120 days from paid date( International payment ), there is nothing they can do. Now, not direct information from Mr.Linger , but I can assume according to kind members of this board that he had moved recently, busy, and still has ? problem with communicating through his home PC. No contact, no knife, and no money back.
 
mr linger should contact the individual asap, once ya accept the money ya are responsible to get the person the merchandise, if there is a problem ya
have to stay in touch, answer the phone, let folks know "WTF"/etc. small things become big things with no communication.

i am sure that he isnt planning to do anything but send ya the thing, & is just experiencing problems/etc but he still needs to stay in touch. i too get "antsy" when someone owes me and they dissappear, a lot of times this isnt a good sign at all............
 
Fair enough Steve. I'm just being defensive for Roger because I feel he's a good guy that's all. I totally agree he should let the man know where he stands with the knife. I do know what waiting is about, I waited 2 years for a Randall.
Scott
 
I want to mention
(adding the last to the first I rambled on too much below) :rolleyes:

I know Roger only from these forums,
I have talked to Roger by Phone and we've mailed things back and forth at times..
I do believe he has some problems.. and believe he will come forth with what's due you..
if he gets pushed to hard
it just may deter him,maybe it has, for that matter read on..

this is one thing that can cause anyone to get out of knife making, it can, will and has happened..
being a knife maker does not make you a business man, that's an art in itself .

I also know for a fact that when someone is thrown into knife making
like Roger was, it has to suck real bad for him and there will be a BIG learning curve there for him to over come
business wise, It can be as bad as he makes it on him self sad
to say or as good as it can be,,

I do agree keep the customer up dated..
for the buyer yes he would like what he ordered when he was
told it would be done.,
The problem has and will be many times.
the business end with the unknown added in, say a sheath
maker that made the wrong sheath for you're knife?, coupled
with one of a kind knives being made, most customers do realize
that this is an art form but does not realize , if pressured to
much the maker may not function right, it's a BIG part of this trade that
I have not seen mentioned much.

I'm thinking right now, be it his fault or not, he's setting with so
much on his plate, he just is having a hard time sorting
it all out..it's not fun, :( he may not flat out have the money to give back to you, ever thought about that? he has money in your knife now and into a sheath for it by another maker I'd venture to say.

just the communications alone can take up valuable time,
I'm thinking you are not the only one he has to deal with..
deposits will get (in most cases) spent, we eat too..the biggest problem
comes in the management of the money's..it's business
read here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284098


Roger is new.
I think he is Honest
I believe he is very over whelmed
he does need to talk to you, and work it out. if it's the sheath maker
that is the hold up, I'd feel bad calling him a thief if I were you, but that's just me.. I'm thinking you don't mind it..because you posted it in the first place :o

you may have him backed into a corner with no way out. the
Nitro police will not help you, and IMHO you've just caused more
grief for him to think about.
not saying it was not brought on by his lack of communication, and
of course I don't now your full part in this either.

I've had customers hound the hell out of me
taking up more time on the phone than it would have taking to make
the knife he wanted, yes it's true believe me..it has happened..
an artist needs no stress
but by nature of trying to feed ones self in this art
business intervenes thus we do have stress,,
take a look here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284098

I could say a lot more but I have knives and sheaths
to make..which I am backed up on.. and could be doing right now..

these are only my opinions and what I can see by what's said on this thread..keep in mind I know you less than I know Roger..
you could be that customer from hell that we hate to see ;) :D

The customer needs all the facts
and the maker needs experience in business
both of these make the match work well.
we both need these..
 
Poor communication ...yes.

Dragging his feet........maybe.

Calling the man a thief...... That is just lowbrow grandstanding and you should be ashamed.
 
I'm ashamed that some think people who break contracts should be given a free pass.
 
I don't know the men involved in this transaction, but I've been in a similar situation. I have to save for several months to buy a knife that costs $300.00. As a paramedic with a house full of kids, I don't have alot of extra money. If I paid someone $300.00 for a knife and all of the sudden communication just stopped, and I have no knife, I'd call that person a thief as well. I don't think it's a lowbrow remark when you're out that much money an that person does'nt have enough honor to communicate, that's just piss poor business practices. I'd call him alot worse if it were my money. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to stir the pot, I just see it from the paying customer's perspective. I understand his friends are loyal to him and I admire that, but the fact remains that he has a man's money and will not communicate with him. There really is no excuse for that kind of treatment. I'll bet if he sent the knife prior to payment, and all communication from the buyer stopped, he'd call the buyer a thief. He needs to communicate one way or another, if he won't do that, then at this point, he is a thief.
 
I too have emailed him so I hope he responds to this.....he needs the chance to speak before all assumtions have been made.
 
At this point all we're hearing is one side of the story. Until Roger can voice his side, ragging his ass about being a thief is just wrong. Nobody knows what problems Roger may be involved in. Hopefully this can be resolved for both parties. I do sympathize for the man not knowing what's up with his knife and hopefully Roger will come forward with an explanation for his lack of communication.
Scott
 
I don't know either parties involved but I'm wondering how a knifemaker would feel if he spent many hours,days & weeks making a knife for someone then sending it out before getting paid and not hearing from that person for a good length of time? Would he feel ripped off? Would everyone say "Don't worry XXXXX is real busy and has 4 dogs at home to take care of,but I'm sure he'll pay you." We all know custom knife making is an art and needs cultivation and time but put the shoe on the other foot and see how comfortable it feels!
 
For all you guys saying what a stand up guy the maker is, a man of integrity, a man of honor and all the other over used terms, let me ask you a question, and just answer it. Ok, the knife is ready supposedly so dont go on and say it takes a while for 'perfection'

What if I put a knife up for sale, you send me the money and that is the end of our communication, maybe you do contact me once and I say "in a few day". After that, 6 months passes and no knife, no response from me. Would you think I stole your money? Probably. But wait, Im a busy guy too, contrary to popular belief, makers are not the only ones who are busy, have problems and other garbage. And it has nothing to do with being a business oriented person. You send money (especially if the knife is ready) then by god you should get it.

The ones who should be ashamed are the ones who repeatedly defend this type of behavior with the usual "gee, hes ok, just not a business man"...then get out of the business.

People here all the time trade knives, everybody from students to professional types to pizza delivery guys and WOW, they manage to follow through...even if they dont have Harvard business degrees.

And who cares if somebody moved...how many months does that take?

If you bought my knife in Feb and never got it, would you accept the excuse that I moved in Sept or Oct?
 
sak_collector said:
For all you guys saying what a stand up guy the maker is, a man of integrity, a man of honor and all the other over used terms, let me ask you a question, and just answer it. Ok, the knife is ready supposedly so dont go on and say it takes a while for 'perfection'

What if I put a knife up for sale, you send me the money and that is the end of our communication, maybe you do contact me once and I say "in a few day". After that, 6 months passes and no knife, no response from me. Would you think I stole your money? Probably. But wait, Im a busy guy too, contrary to popular belief, makers are not the only ones who are busy, have problems and other garbage. And it has nothing to do with being a business oriented person. You send money (especially if the knife is ready) then by god you should get it.

The ones who should be ashamed are the ones who repeatedly defend this type of behavior with the usual "gee, hes ok, just not a business man"...then get out of the business.

People here all the time trade knives, everybody from students to professional types to pizza delivery guys and WOW, they manage to follow through...even if they dont have Harvard business degrees.

And who cares if somebody moved...how many months does that take?

If you bought my knife in Feb and never got it, would you accept the excuse that I moved in Sept or Oct?
Click to expand...
well there you are , just my point...

you can "what if" all day long and it still would not be worth the type you just spent time doing typing it..
you need to read the thread again ,, THE sheath was not done, I believe he wanted a sheath with the knife .. right? the knife is done right?

well I said a lack of communication is not right..and I'd like to say I'll bet no one knows right now the full situation..on both sides.other than two guys
Witch trails ended years ago..I know this is the good bad and the ugly but I see ugly where it's not warranted..it's between two men...if someone messes with a reputation it should be with his own, he don't need help from a peanut gallery still wet behind the ears..

they need proof now before they burn someone at the stake, and this is the reason..

I have not passed the Bar exam and I have not had the education to be a Judge. I'll leave that for them to work out.
..WHEN one man says it's so and the rest fall behind..that's a sign of a weak mind..
I'm not saying it's that way here with you all but if any of you have taken a side with only the info you got here.
please do not order from me..

this will be the last post for me here, I see a one sidedness here with others at least a benefit of doubt.
I will leave you with, I take no stock in anyone with no way to contact them in person at least a full name and phone number... why do some of you guys hide behind aliases anyway? what are you hiding from.. :rolleyes:
 
sak_collector said:
For all you guys saying what a stand up guy the maker is, a man of integrity, a man of honor and all the other over used terms, let me ask you a question, and just answer it. Ok, the knife is ready supposedly so dont go on and say it takes a while for 'perfection'

What if I put a knife up for sale, you send me the money and that is the end of our communication, maybe you do contact me once and I say "in a few day". After that, 6 months passes and no knife, no response from me. Would you think I stole your money? Probably. But wait, Im a busy guy too, contrary to popular belief, makers are not the only ones who are busy, have problems and other garbage. And it has nothing to do with being a business oriented person. You send money (especially if the knife is ready) then by god you should get it.

The ones who should be ashamed are the ones who repeatedly defend this type of behavior with the usual "gee, hes ok, just not a business man"...then get out of the business.

People here all the time trade knives, everybody from students to professional types to pizza delivery guys and WOW, they manage to follow through...even if they dont have Harvard business degrees.

And who cares if somebody moved...how many months does that take?

If you bought my knife in Feb and never got it, would you accept the excuse that I moved in Sept or Oct?
Click to expand...

Two things modify that correct atitude. 1. the knife has been made, but not
up to the buyers specs (the sheath) 2. To call someone a thief is to imply
that there will be no knife and sheath coming.

Yashiman should have complained, but to name someone a thief is a very
serious charge. And from now whenever a potential buyer runs a search on
the GB&U both seller and buyer will appear. Maybe that should have been
avoided by the maker by keeping communications open. And maybe the
buyer (Who is over 300 dollars + into the buy) should have made allowances
for the move etc.
 
Well, how typical. The maker has 365 dollars of the guys money, no knife, no sheath (i guess its the sheath makers fault now? ) and the customer should make allowances because the maker decided to move?

Ok, I will re-phrase my question...you buy a knife from me, send me the money and never hear from me again. Months later I decide to move, is that an excuse?

Dont bother answering, will be more stupid double talk about wet-behind-the-ears, and peanut gallery crap.

Since when did makers gain such God-like status...a customer could never get by without paying and never communicating back. If he tried, you folks would not be near as quick to defend him. You would say, the maker poured his soul into that knife and now he does not have the money. Well, same thing...the customer has sent his money and now is ignored, but thats ok because the maker is 'well respected'...horse crap.
 
sak_collector said:
Well, how typical. The maker has 365 dollars of the guys money, no knife, no sheath (i guess its the sheath makers fault now? ) and the customer should make allowances because the maker decided to move?

Ok, I will re-phrase my question...you buy a knife from me, send me the money and never hear from me again. Months later I decide to move, is that an excuse?

Dont bother answering, will be more stupid double talk about wet-behind-the-ears, and peanut gallery crap.

Since when did makers gain such God-like status...a customer could never get by without paying and never communicating back. If he tried, you folks would not be near as quick to defend him. You would say, the maker poured his soul into that knife and now he does not have the money. Well, same thing...the customer has sent his money and now is ignored, but thats ok because the maker is 'well respected'...horse crap.
Click to expand...

Two things 1.the knife exists 2.if yshimo got the phone number for the maker
what happened? On the other thread on this subject the makers number was
offered by e-mail. what happened? did the client get the number and call?
Was there a number to be had at all?

I had thought about buying a WSK from Mr. Linger, so this is relevant to me
at least.
 
sak_collector said:
Well, how typical. The maker has 365 dollars of the guys money, no knife, no sheath (i guess its the sheath makers fault now? ) and the customer should make allowances because the maker decided to move?

Ok, I will re-phrase my question...you buy a knife from me, send me the money and never hear from me again. Months later I decide to move, is that an excuse?

Dont bother answering, will be more stupid double talk about wet-behind-the-ears, and peanut gallery crap.

Since when did makers gain such God-like status...a customer could never get by without paying and never communicating back. If he tried, you folks would not be near as quick to defend him. You would say, the maker poured his soul into that knife and now he does not have the money. Well, same thing...the customer has sent his money and now is ignored, but thats ok because the maker is 'well respected'...horse crap.
Click to expand...

yeahup horse crap alright you said it...
laid out for everyone to read..of course you don't want me to Bother to reply..
GOD hahaha nope me I don't want the responsibility to deal with.. well I'll leave it at that...
typical? who said it was typical,,
and who said no communication is or should be tolerated..?? I don't why you are blabbing on about it???

sheath makers fault?? could be..real collectors know this happens and deal with it. read the posts..
but still it's the makers responsibility of the maker no dought,,, yeeeeeess it is...no one is saying it isn't????..
I'd like for you to list your full name and address right here for everyone to see, I'm not hiding why are you..

someone said it's better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool than for him to open it and be known a fool..
if the shoe fits..I didn't say that,, someone else did so blame me for that too..

fixer ... I gave him the number I was the one that posted that..you'll have to ask him what happened. :confused:
 
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