Roger Linger stole my payment for WSK

I am always leery of entering these types of threads and prefer to stay out and let the interested parties handle the matter on their own terms. I will not be addressing the matter of whether Mr. Linger is a "thief" or if Yshimo is being unreasonable.

I am concerned that collectors new to the custom scene or people who are reluctant to make the plunge into custom knives will be affected by threads like this. Please do not assume that all custom makers require a deposit or payment up front (I don't even accept money until the customer has their knife in hand and has had the opportunity to inspect my work). I am afraid that this thread and its responses may tarnish how makers are seen or will create an artificial scenerio where makers are willing to defend the mis-deeds of other makers.

The makers who have responded to this thread are friends of Mr. Linger and are defending him with passion. I can appreciate and respect that and it is nice to see friends standing up for each other. Their responses should be taken as friends and not the makers' community as a whole.

I do not want to address the merits of Yshimo's post or Mr. Linger's conduct, only, I would like to see the continued symbiotic relationship where makers take care of collectors and collectors take care of makers. In nearly all circumstances I think that the relationship is synergistic and I hope that it stays that way. Please do not take this single instance to represent the entire knife maker community.

Matt Roberts
 
well said Matt
deposits are a differant story and there are many reasons for them.
even they can be a help to both sides of the table.
they can be a double edged sword as well if not carfull.
I for one do take them, on a first time buyer, with a back log it just insures that you get on the list and are willing to go through with the deal. if someone ever should ask for the deposit back that's not a problem..
but I do hate when guys send more or pay in full before it done.. it don't get done any faster..but that's another thread.. :) I'm Gone..
 
I do not want to address the merits of Yshimo's post or Mr. Linger's conduct, only, I would like to see the continued symbiotic relationship where makers take care of collectors and collectors take care of makers. In nearly all circumstances I think that the relationship is synergistic and I hope that it stays that way. Please do not take this single instance to represent the entire knife maker community.

Matt Roberts[/QUOTE]

Damn lawyer double talk. :D If you are new to custom knives or old for that matter avoid down payments if at all possible.It has been said many times but if you do a search you will see most hard feeling that arise between a maker and a collector are when money changes hands long before the knife does.I like sitting on the fence too.I really lack diplomacy. :)
 
I would hope that anyone reading this thread would realize that it is about one situation and not be stupid enough to think that this is a problem with all knifemakers. The vast majority of makers are as conscientious as they can possibly be.

Roger needs to get this taken care of. I don't think he is a thief, but the longer this goes on the more of a beating his reputation is going to take.

Taking deposits is okay as long as they are reasonable. Asking for more money before the knife is ready to ship doesn't seem right to me.
 
I just got an e-mail from one of the parties and it's said that Yshimo's knife
is at the leather makers but not at the first one, there was a problem at that end. he's looking at a couple more weeks. if Yshimo wants me to tell the story I will. it's really up to him where he started this, and I don't blame him if he waits it out until then..communication is key..

stumpy, the main reason is those makers can't won't or don't like to manage money, they like making knives without the pressures.

you'll find it's the customer that gets nervous first,,when a deposit is made. I wonder why :D

I see Yshimo has only 10 posts I wonder if he set up to get auto e-mail when posts are made to this :confused: I think all will clear up in about 2 weeks..
 
Take a look at the times of Yshimo posts. They are on the other side of the
Pacific Ocean. So 3 AM is like ten o"clock pm here.
 
I'm late to this thread, but I would like to add my 2 cents. I buy quite a few custom knives, too many if you ask my wife. :) When I first started collecting I sent deposits, and on two occasions two very well known makers never sent (or finished as far as I know) the knife I ordered. Never means not from the time I ordered the knife and sent the deposit until now. It has been over three years on one and over four on the other. I stopped e-mailing and I no longer expect to see the knives. As I see it there are only a couple of things I can really do about it. First, I will never again order a knive from these makers. Second, I no longer send deposits. Period. If a maker wants a deposit I simply go elsewhere. There are many very good knivemakers out there. You can always find a great one who does not require a deposit. The funny thing is, in my experience I have always received my ordered knife from a maker who does not require deposits, and the knives have been perfect. So why should I play the deposit game?

As for buyers who make orders and then fail to follow through with the purchase, well things happen sometimes and sometimes people are just lame, but at least the knivemaker still has the knife and in today's market he should be able to sell it.
 
Well everyone, I guess it is all my fault and my bad decision that I paid him in advance. My main purpose of this thread was to make Mr.Roger contact me. But seems like I failed. This is becoming who is right and who is wrong or he is a good person, he is not a thief, etc. Since I found Mr.Linger on this board I thought a good friend of him might tell him to contact me.... but it is not happening yet. Thank you so much for all the good members of this board who had posted for this thread. I really appreciate all the comment. By the way, I do have experience of ordering to other custom knife maker. When I ordered, he said " there is a long list and it would take about more than two years, etc." and it did take more than two years. However, it is a different story, and different out come this time. When ever I order something, I will be more cautious. Please accept my apology for posting this thread.
 
Yshimo said:
Well everyone, I guess it is all my fault and my bad decision that I paid him in advance. My main purpose of this thread was to make Mr.Roger contact me. But seems like I failed. This is becoming who is right and who is wrong or he is a good person, he is not a thief, etc. Since I found Mr.Linger on this board I thought a good friend of him might tell him to contact me.... but it is not happening yet. Thank you so much for all the good members of this board who had posted for this thread. I really appreciate all the comment. By the way, I do have experience of ordering to other custom knife maker. When I ordered, he said " there is a long list and it would take about more than two years, etc." and it did take more than two years. However, it is a different story, and different out come this time. When ever I order something, I will be more cautious. Please accept my apology for posting this thread.
Click to expand...

You are over 300 dollars into a knife purchase and you are apologizing?


Did you receive Mr. Linger's phone number and did it work?
 
Thanks for this thread Yshimo. It allowed me to put more knifemakers on "never buy from" list.

David
 
I apologized for Mr.Linger's friend who might not like how I feel. No I do not have his phone #. Some of his friends I think has alredy mentioned about me wanting my money back, and lost interest with doing business with him. He should know eventhough he is busy. He has my email address. Lack of my business skill as well. I should have known the Credit Card company's international payment 120days refund policy. I made the decision to pay without knowing this, so the bottom line is, it is my fault and will not do business with him ever. Since I am not able to get direct information, and no way to get my money back. What should I call it ? a bad debt ?
 
I appreciate Matt's (Longrifle) post. A thread like this can make all sorts of ugliness get plastered around in all directions.

It is not my place to stick my nose too deep into this issue. However...

I would like to add a small bit of info. Roger had been getting all of his leather sheaths made by Jamie Briggs. I don't know what exactly happened, but Jamie Briggs is no longer making leather sheaths. That's definitely a problem.

Also his recent move must have thrown him off.

I doubt he's planning on keeping your money without delivering the knife. That's just my gut feeling, I can't say for sure.

I agree that communication could have allowed this situation to be avoided all together.
 
Sir Nickwheeler, Thank you so much for addtional information about Leather sheath maker. No wonder, I was trying to find his ( Leather sheath maker) on yahoo search and there were some match, but could not open his site...
 
I have my doubts that 2 more weeks will fix this problem, isn't that what was said originally? Seems to me this should be easy to fix.

Rlinger should ask the sheathmaker to IMMEDIATELY send the knife back to him, so he can send it to this person.

Rlinger Should also refund sufficent monies to have a similar quality sheath made by someone else and send that back to the customer.

The rest of us should take this lesson very well to heart concerning deposits and who we'll do business with.
 
Yshimo - This will get resolved my friend. Dont let this deture you from getting other knives from makers you admire. In my eyes, a makers word binds him to a contract with the buyer. Also, a deposite CAN lock that buyer in as well. I have returned deposits, I have several knives half complete as the buyer makes payments, and I have had knife finished (no deposite on the job) and the buyer wont return my calls (I keep the knife and sell it to someone after 4 weeks). Its more important to develop a relationship with the maker than to give him money. If I have to buy special materials, I will want a deposite because personally, I dont have money laying around to fund 20 jobs. Its a give and take relationship at times but you have the right to know what is going on with your side of the agreement between you and a maker. Also, I rarely take deposits but when the buyer wants to make one, I think of it as 100% returnable untill the payment is complete.
Sorry for going on so long but I thought I'd give my way of working with my friends(customers), when I make them a knife.

Yshimo - email me if you can.....
 
Yshimo said:
My main purpose of this thread was to make Mr.Roger contact me.
But seems like I failed.


This is becoming who is right and who is wrong or


he is a good person,



he is not a thief, etc. .
Click to expand...



Don't do this anymore:
Be a MAN.....................







plan no useless move, take no step in vain.
-----------------------------------------
ishiyumisan
 
No, Yshimo was right in posting his plight.

If a custom knife-maker is not able to meet his end of the agreement, then I think that it is a good thing for the forum members to know.

There's no doubt that Mr. Linger failed his customer.
If he could'nt deliver then he should have never taken the money.
Or if after taking the money, the situation had evolved in a way that would not allow Mr. Linger to deliver, then he should have contacted his customer and explained the situation--and given the customer the option of a refund or an extention of the deadline.

Yshimo, you have nothing to apologize for.

And I think that maybe some of Mr. Linger's friends here should highly encourage Mr. Linger to go to some "internet cafe", or the public library, or Kinkos, or a friend's house, and get on the computer and respond here on the forums himself.
It would be a wise business move and it might repair some of his reputation if he could explain his situation and publicly apologize to Yshimo.

Allen.
 
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