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S.W.A>T. Guardfather ... piece of junk
- Thread starter Bagheera
- Start date
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
Kind of sounds like he is having us on to me.
It looks like these spikes are gone from the website now. When I go to that page it tells me that my access is denied and I can't find them in the Sale and Clearance Item section either. It is good to see that with some prodding brightedge did feel that it was judicious to remove this item from his site. Maybe he will now make sure that his other products are all as advertised.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2003
- Messages
- 81
4 spikes sold for $00.00, one left!! All sold for free and shipped for free to members of this forum. Must add, person must reside in the lower 48 US states for shipping purposes!! 
You guys got me wondering now if I sould have all of the blades and handles tested at labs to see if they are the materials they say they are!!
You guys got me wondering now if I sould have all of the blades and handles tested at labs to see if they are the materials they say they are!!
Brightedge,
I got your email and below is my original email to you on which below is your answer I think you can see WHAT I ASKED FOR not much just a telephone number as I then would have called SWAT Advanced Technologies myself.
My email to you:
Hello Sir,
I have to thank you for taking the time to answer my telephone call, it is truelly appreciated.
The Guardfather I have bought from ###### is really not locking in the
"extended" position when fired, one has to pull the spike out for an
additional 1/4" to get it locked.
I also heard from/by some experts from Bladeforums that the S.W.A.T.
Guardfather is ONLY made in black and that there are some fake
"Guardfathers"floating around like the automatic Ice-pick from Paragon
Cutlery that is available in many colors but of a lot less quality.
Even if ###### has had the Guardfather for a few months it should still fire OK as a good spring will keep for a long time, I have had a response from an owner of the Guardfather who says that he bought it from TAD and it still fires and locks solidly after over a year of use.
Anyhow, I tried again using a piece of anti-slip rubber to unscrew the
end-cap but it doesn't unscrew, I don't want to use pliers as it will
surekly damage the aluminum and I want to get some answers from SWAT as I feel that the "Guardfather" I bought is below the minimum quality one can expect.
I hope you can give me their telephone number so I can spend some more $$ calling them
trying to get this sorted out.
Best regards,
........
Now I get your answer just an hour ago:
Piet, for starters I work midnight shift and do my website during the day and try to get some sleep and take care of my family obligations. To say I have very little spare time is an understatement. I ordered swat knives the 2 bladed autos and got the spikes from the same distributor that states he is a swat wholesaler. I am not an expert on every type of item I carry on my website. Within 1 day of your e-mail you were on the forums and a link was
sent to me. It is x-mas here and I have gone from Sunday morning without sleeping more than 5 hours this week. I am swamped with orders. Your emergency with the spike that you got from someone else is not of a high a priority to me right now as it is to you. I am way too honest and have a great reputation on the forums. I am highly respected by most retailers and knife makers. I don't know what you really expected from me? You should have asked for whatever you wanted from the person you got the spike from. Sure I know who the guy is that I sold the spike to he is the only guy I sell anything to in France!! I hope I am done with you. Good luck with the spike.
If you will take the end cap off I am sure you will see how simple it is to adjust the spring. For the $xxx dollars you spent I think you will find you got something worth more than the $40.00. Those spikes cost me $32.00. What is it you feel I am obligated to do for you? I did not get 1 penny of your money?
#######.
Nothing, I didn't imply you were obligated to do anything, I just asked for a telephone number to give SWAT a call and let them know about their product.
Then it became clear that it was not an SWAT Guardfather and I send you a second email about that and didn't hear anything back until just an hour ago.
Well it probably wasn't so busy that you could start replying to this forum post, instead of me personally.
The fact that you just gave away the remainder of "Guardfather" copies instead of just rectifying the text is enough info for me.
If I were you I would jump on that distributor who said he's a swat wholesaler and ask my money back.
Lastly, I can tell you that I tried removing the endcap just 10 minutes ago even heating it with an electric paintstripper blower so in case they used loctite but even clamped in a bench vice between some thick slabs of carton my 240 pounds could not loosen the end-cap.
Again this does not matter anymore, I'm more disturbed being called names then getting this $40 piece off junk working, I value my over several years earned good reputation more then the "Guardfather".
Merry Christmas and a Happy, Prosperous and Healthy New Year,
Bagheera
I got your email and below is my original email to you on which below is your answer I think you can see WHAT I ASKED FOR not much just a telephone number as I then would have called SWAT Advanced Technologies myself.
My email to you:
Hello Sir,
I have to thank you for taking the time to answer my telephone call, it is truelly appreciated.
The Guardfather I have bought from ###### is really not locking in the
"extended" position when fired, one has to pull the spike out for an
additional 1/4" to get it locked.
I also heard from/by some experts from Bladeforums that the S.W.A.T.
Guardfather is ONLY made in black and that there are some fake
"Guardfathers"floating around like the automatic Ice-pick from Paragon
Cutlery that is available in many colors but of a lot less quality.
Even if ###### has had the Guardfather for a few months it should still fire OK as a good spring will keep for a long time, I have had a response from an owner of the Guardfather who says that he bought it from TAD and it still fires and locks solidly after over a year of use.
Anyhow, I tried again using a piece of anti-slip rubber to unscrew the
end-cap but it doesn't unscrew, I don't want to use pliers as it will
surekly damage the aluminum and I want to get some answers from SWAT as I feel that the "Guardfather" I bought is below the minimum quality one can expect.
I hope you can give me their telephone number so I can spend some more $$ calling them
trying to get this sorted out.Best regards,
........
Now I get your answer just an hour ago:
Piet, for starters I work midnight shift and do my website during the day and try to get some sleep and take care of my family obligations. To say I have very little spare time is an understatement. I ordered swat knives the 2 bladed autos and got the spikes from the same distributor that states he is a swat wholesaler. I am not an expert on every type of item I carry on my website. Within 1 day of your e-mail you were on the forums and a link was
sent to me. It is x-mas here and I have gone from Sunday morning without sleeping more than 5 hours this week. I am swamped with orders. Your emergency with the spike that you got from someone else is not of a high a priority to me right now as it is to you. I am way too honest and have a great reputation on the forums. I am highly respected by most retailers and knife makers. I don't know what you really expected from me? You should have asked for whatever you wanted from the person you got the spike from. Sure I know who the guy is that I sold the spike to he is the only guy I sell anything to in France!! I hope I am done with you. Good luck with the spike.
If you will take the end cap off I am sure you will see how simple it is to adjust the spring. For the $xxx dollars you spent I think you will find you got something worth more than the $40.00. Those spikes cost me $32.00. What is it you feel I am obligated to do for you? I did not get 1 penny of your money?
#######.
Nothing, I didn't imply you were obligated to do anything, I just asked for a telephone number to give SWAT a call and let them know about their product.
Then it became clear that it was not an SWAT Guardfather and I send you a second email about that and didn't hear anything back until just an hour ago.
Well it probably wasn't so busy that you could start replying to this forum post, instead of me personally.
The fact that you just gave away the remainder of "Guardfather" copies instead of just rectifying the text is enough info for me.
If I were you I would jump on that distributor who said he's a swat wholesaler and ask my money back.
Lastly, I can tell you that I tried removing the endcap just 10 minutes ago even heating it with an electric paintstripper blower so in case they used loctite but even clamped in a bench vice between some thick slabs of carton my 240 pounds could not loosen the end-cap.
Again this does not matter anymore, I'm more disturbed being called names then getting this $40 piece off junk working, I value my over several years earned good reputation more then the "Guardfather".
Merry Christmas and a Happy, Prosperous and Healthy New Year,
Bagheera
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2003
- Messages
- 81
Again, you did not buy it from me. Tell the guy you got it from what you are wasting your time telling me. How would you or I know what was done to that spike?? Did the guy you got it from take it apart? Did he glue the end cap? I can take the end cap off of everyone that I have with just my fingers. Those of you that are getting a free one from me will even receive it with the end cap removed. I am sure you will have no trouble taking it off, and putting it back on. I only responded to you here cause you took my company info here for a reaming.
If any of you sold a knife or tool to someone else and they later sold it to someone else you would feel the same way as I do if they came back to you complaining. Be honest!!
I can't do any more than order an item from a dist. and have him ship it to me. If it was not was represented to me than all I can do is change it. Which I did. If it was at all worth my trouble and time I would send the 6 that I have left back for a refund but it is not worth it. You my friend would not be able to return the item to the maker no matter who made it as you are not the original purchaser, live out of the US and I assume not law enforcement or military to have it shipped back to you from the manufacturer. I did not get 1 penny from this guy so what obligation do I have to him. I spoke to Mr.B on the phone and he was all over me about what was going to be done with this spike he has. In the begining he even made it sound as if he got it from me. When I asked him where he lived I told him I never shipped anything there. he then told me he got it from a third party. Again complain to him!!!
If any of you sold a knife or tool to someone else and they later sold it to someone else you would feel the same way as I do if they came back to you complaining. Be honest!!
I can't do any more than order an item from a dist. and have him ship it to me. If it was not was represented to me than all I can do is change it. Which I did. If it was at all worth my trouble and time I would send the 6 that I have left back for a refund but it is not worth it. You my friend would not be able to return the item to the maker no matter who made it as you are not the original purchaser, live out of the US and I assume not law enforcement or military to have it shipped back to you from the manufacturer. I did not get 1 penny from this guy so what obligation do I have to him. I spoke to Mr.B on the phone and he was all over me about what was going to be done with this spike he has. In the begining he even made it sound as if he got it from me. When I asked him where he lived I told him I never shipped anything there. he then told me he got it from a third party. Again complain to him!!!
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 221
Some people have suggested that a dealer has an obligation to personally research and certify that each and every product the dealer sells is legitimate and 100% as advertised. I personally do not know if that is realistic-I would expect that realistic espectation is that the dealer has an obligation to research as much as possible and to buy product from reputable manufacturers and distributors, which shifts some of the responsibility to the distributor and manufacturer level.
What I would expect is for a dealer to back the products he or she sells 100% and make good on a bad situation when the product does not meet the advertised expectations. In this end I must say that Brightedge has always exceeded my expectations for customer service. In the nearly two years that I have personally known Robert, I have come to the opinion that he would rather be stabbed with one of these knives than knowingly deceive one of his customers. Those who would suggest that he would intentionally mislead anyone or that he only removed the product from his web page because of the bad press that he was getting over this incident clearly do not know what they are talking about.
What I would expect is for a dealer to back the products he or she sells 100% and make good on a bad situation when the product does not meet the advertised expectations. In this end I must say that Brightedge has always exceeded my expectations for customer service. In the nearly two years that I have personally known Robert, I have come to the opinion that he would rather be stabbed with one of these knives than knowingly deceive one of his customers. Those who would suggest that he would intentionally mislead anyone or that he only removed the product from his web page because of the bad press that he was getting over this incident clearly do not know what they are talking about.
Robert,
Read the 2 emails I send you, I did not ask anything except perhaps a telephone number if you had it.
And please its easy to say: I spoke to Mr.B on the phone and he was all over me about what was going to be done with this spike he has. In the begining he even made it sound as if he got it from me. When I asked him where he lived I told him I never shipped anything there. he then told me he got it from a third party. Again complain to him!!"
It's easy to say that without me having anyway to prove the opposite.
Perhaps strange for an American I ALWAYS start my telephone conversation with my name and from where I'm calling and I did that with you also, remember, "Hello, this is Piet ######## I'm calling from the Netherlands Europe...." period!
I never implied that I bought it from you I said that I bought it from a forum 'friend' from France and you knew immediately who it was naming him with his first name.
You also said you would contact him as it was not meant for him to start reselling? the items he bought from you, remember ?
I said that I heard that it could not be a SWAT Guardfather and you told me it was, you had the invoice to prove it, you would even send me a copy, remember? and I didn't ask YOU for a refund/repair etc. read the email I just asked for a telephone number of SWAT Advanced Technolgies.
I told you and that's true that I was a litlle p.ss.d @ff at the quality of the Swat Guardfather and then while we were talking on the phone you immediately unscrewed 3-4 of the end-caps from the ones you had lying in front of you? (first eject the spike then turn the end-cap....) and said that I should just pull the spring a little longer (extend it) as it could have taken a set.
I told you it didn't work but I had only one hand as I was holding the phone with the other!, you even told me to perhaps heat the end-cap a little.......
You then asked me to send you an email and I told you I would do within half an hour which I did twice.
Total telephone conversation length 12 minutes some seconds.
I learned another valuable lesson the next time I'm calling to somebody concerning questions/problems with anything I'll record it in digital quality on my hard disk and burn it on CD, I have the technology
.
Just one small thing, I've YET to encounter a reputable manufacturer of knives or other outdoor products who didn't stand behind one of their products when there was a problem and they didn't care about if I was the original owner or not, if I bought it in the US or in Europe or if I was the second owner, Spyderco, Benchmade, Chris Reeve, Arc, Photon (LSI) Recta, Brunton, UKE and many others and I never had a problem with returning anything to them.
I didn't comment on anything else on your site, I even wanted to place an order for an Surefire L4 as your price is very competitive.
Why not just put a message on your site that it has come to your attention that these were not SWAT Guardfathers that would be it, you can't know everything can you.., no instead you start a "campaign" against me. I just wonder how you came to know so fast that you did not sell SWAT Guardfathers but cheap copies using their trusted name.
Don't expect an answer for the next 12 hours as I'm off to an relaxing Christmas competition evening of our club.
I really hope this will end this post altogether.
Regards,
Piet (AKA Bagheera)
Read the 2 emails I send you, I did not ask anything except perhaps a telephone number if you had it.
And please its easy to say: I spoke to Mr.B on the phone and he was all over me about what was going to be done with this spike he has. In the begining he even made it sound as if he got it from me. When I asked him where he lived I told him I never shipped anything there. he then told me he got it from a third party. Again complain to him!!"
It's easy to say that without me having anyway to prove the opposite.
Perhaps strange for an American I ALWAYS start my telephone conversation with my name and from where I'm calling and I did that with you also, remember, "Hello, this is Piet ######## I'm calling from the Netherlands Europe...." period!
I never implied that I bought it from you I said that I bought it from a forum 'friend' from France and you knew immediately who it was naming him with his first name.
You also said you would contact him as it was not meant for him to start reselling? the items he bought from you, remember ?
I said that I heard that it could not be a SWAT Guardfather and you told me it was, you had the invoice to prove it, you would even send me a copy, remember? and I didn't ask YOU for a refund/repair etc. read the email I just asked for a telephone number of SWAT Advanced Technolgies.
I told you and that's true that I was a litlle p.ss.d @ff at the quality of the Swat Guardfather and then while we were talking on the phone you immediately unscrewed 3-4 of the end-caps from the ones you had lying in front of you? (first eject the spike then turn the end-cap....) and said that I should just pull the spring a little longer (extend it) as it could have taken a set.
I told you it didn't work but I had only one hand as I was holding the phone with the other!, you even told me to perhaps heat the end-cap a little.......
You then asked me to send you an email and I told you I would do within half an hour which I did twice.
Total telephone conversation length 12 minutes some seconds.
I learned another valuable lesson the next time I'm calling to somebody concerning questions/problems with anything I'll record it in digital quality on my hard disk and burn it on CD, I have the technology
.Just one small thing, I've YET to encounter a reputable manufacturer of knives or other outdoor products who didn't stand behind one of their products when there was a problem and they didn't care about if I was the original owner or not, if I bought it in the US or in Europe or if I was the second owner, Spyderco, Benchmade, Chris Reeve, Arc, Photon (LSI) Recta, Brunton, UKE and many others and I never had a problem with returning anything to them.
I didn't comment on anything else on your site, I even wanted to place an order for an Surefire L4 as your price is very competitive.
Why not just put a message on your site that it has come to your attention that these were not SWAT Guardfathers that would be it, you can't know everything can you.., no instead you start a "campaign" against me. I just wonder how you came to know so fast that you did not sell SWAT Guardfathers but cheap copies using their trusted name.
Don't expect an answer for the next 12 hours as I'm off to an relaxing Christmas competition evening of our club.
I really hope this will end this post altogether.
Regards,
Piet (AKA Bagheera)
This is just a shame, b/c I bet I have placed over 30 orders with Robert and he has proven himself to be a man of integrity. I am sure it wouldn't take a thread for him to remove the item from his site. He carries some of the nicest custom Microtechs I have ever seen and don't personally think he would mess with something that was known to be a clone.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2003
- Messages
- 81
What makes a SWAT product so great in the first place. I got a large batch of the SWAT 2 bladed knives that were the biggest peices of crap I have ever seen for the money!! Wholesale was $149.00 and I sold them for $100.00.
I do however have some very nice paragon knives in my personal collection and thay are awesome!!
I am done and hopefully you will be able to get the cap off and stretch the spring. Have a nice day and take care!!!
Hey I got a used car one time and the starter was bad?? Should of held GM responsible, or at least made them get me the starter manufacturer info.
The party that got the spike from me has gotten $100's of dollars of stuff from me. I can't imagine if there was anything wrong with it that he would not tell me and instead sell you a spike that did not work!!??
I do however have some very nice paragon knives in my personal collection and thay are awesome!!
I am done and hopefully you will be able to get the cap off and stretch the spring. Have a nice day and take care!!!
Hey I got a used car one time and the starter was bad?? Should of held GM responsible, or at least made them get me the starter manufacturer info.
The party that got the spike from me has gotten $100's of dollars of stuff from me. I can't imagine if there was anything wrong with it that he would not tell me and instead sell you a spike that did not work!!??
TheBadGuy,
I just saw your reply, and although I have never bought anything from TheBrightEdge the site and knives/flashlights etc. look all very good and very competively priced AND my telephone conversation with Robert was also nice. As I said I even was thinking of getting an SF L4 from him.
I didn't start making accusations I just mentioned the site where the "SWAT Guardfathers" were sold in many non black colors. The follow-up posts were not my idea but I don't like to be accused of something I didn't do.
Best Scouting wishes,
Bagheera
I just saw your reply, and although I have never bought anything from TheBrightEdge the site and knives/flashlights etc. look all very good and very competively priced AND my telephone conversation with Robert was also nice. As I said I even was thinking of getting an SF L4 from him.
I didn't start making accusations I just mentioned the site where the "SWAT Guardfathers" were sold in many non black colors. The follow-up posts were not my idea but I don't like to be accused of something I didn't do.
Best Scouting wishes,
Bagheera
i've spent over $1,000 at the bright edge this year.robert is one of the best dealers around and also one of the coolest guys to talk to.
i can't believe people are basing their decision to not buy from him because of one thread when there are many threads and positive customer reviews for him.piling on robert without first hand experience of doing business with him is pretty ignorant.
i can't believe people are basing their decision to not buy from him because of one thread when there are many threads and positive customer reviews for him.piling on robert without first hand experience of doing business with him is pretty ignorant.
My opinion is based on his reaction and conduct in the thread, not on the one bad experience of the buyer. A mans actions show a lot about him, and I've seen actions that discourage me purchasing from him.
I rarely buy online anyways, i prefer purchasing from my local shop, I know if I have any problems, he'll fix them(thoug I've only bought Spydies from him so far, so also know I won't have any probelsm).
Also like things like today, had ten minuts at lunch, i wanted to go in and buy a Delica II, and check out a Beretta drop point loveless. He had both right there, picked up the delica, which is clipped in my pocket now, and saw what I wanted on the Loveless. Can't do that with an online store.
I rarely buy online anyways, i prefer purchasing from my local shop, I know if I have any problems, he'll fix them(thoug I've only bought Spydies from him so far, so also know I won't have any probelsm).
Also like things like today, had ten minuts at lunch, i wanted to go in and buy a Delica II, and check out a Beretta drop point loveless. He had both right there, picked up the delica, which is clipped in my pocket now, and saw what I wanted on the Loveless. Can't do that with an online store.
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
Enough of this, it's time to get into the holiday spirit.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2000
- Messages
- 287
All I can say is that Robert is top notch in my book. I too have spent thousands with Robert and have yet to have one bad service transaction. Robert is a VERY honest guy and would not falsely represent a product on purpose. He is a straight shooter and tells it like it is. I would've contacted the seller in France and had him take care of this. Always contact the person you last bought it from first as this could've easily been handled off line.
Next time you're desiring an OTF type tool...STAY AWAY from SWAT, save up, and pay the extra cash and get yourself a MT .
Next time you're desiring an OTF type tool...STAY AWAY from SWAT, save up, and pay the extra cash and get yourself a MT
.Just saw this post and had to add my two cents worth...
In the past four months or so I've bought more than a few knives from Robert/thebrightedge. Those dealings with him resulted only because, from the first one, I was impressed with the personalized service I received.
My first purchase wasn't for alot of money, but the later ones were, because I felt then, and now, that he's got the best products for the best prices, in the internet knife business, with the best customer service. Communications were/are excellent to answer any questions that I had/have, usually pertaining to my personal requests for something "special".
I've never been disappointed.
In his above responses, I see an honest man, frustrated and angry, because his business integrity was questioned by strangers concerning a transaction not directly from him.
Do you really think that a guy with so many limited custom knives on his site would intentionally try to "ripoff" people with a $40 clone? Get real. Mistakes are made, even by honest people. It's hard to bat 1000.
Go to any knife "forum" and check out his feedback. It speaks LOUDLY for him and his business. I doubt you'll find any better...
Don't want to order from thebrightedge based only on this thread? That's your choice...and your loss.
Greg
In the past four months or so I've bought more than a few knives from Robert/thebrightedge. Those dealings with him resulted only because, from the first one, I was impressed with the personalized service I received.
My first purchase wasn't for alot of money, but the later ones were, because I felt then, and now, that he's got the best products for the best prices, in the internet knife business, with the best customer service. Communications were/are excellent to answer any questions that I had/have, usually pertaining to my personal requests for something "special".
I've never been disappointed.
In his above responses, I see an honest man, frustrated and angry, because his business integrity was questioned by strangers concerning a transaction not directly from him.
Do you really think that a guy with so many limited custom knives on his site would intentionally try to "ripoff" people with a $40 clone? Get real. Mistakes are made, even by honest people. It's hard to bat 1000.
Go to any knife "forum" and check out his feedback. It speaks LOUDLY for him and his business. I doubt you'll find any better...
Don't want to order from thebrightedge based only on this thread? That's your choice...and your loss.
Greg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Messages
- 1,693
TBG recommended TheBrightEdge to me and I placed an order with him for a MT mini-UDT. Great price, communication, and packaging. I recommended TheBrightEdge. As far as what happened here, just one of those things. Lots of stress with this economy and this time of year. Let's let it go.